How did Trunks beat Freeza?

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SSJ2bardock
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How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by SSJ2bardock » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:11 am

It doesn’t seem like Trunks should be strong enough to beat Freeza when he lands on Earth. If we’re going by the whole super saiyan is a x50 multiplier thing and if we know Freeza has a power level of 120,000,000 then to even put him in the same ballpark range he would have to be roughly the same strength as Goku was when he was on Namek. Not saying power levels are a good indicator of anything, but they’re the only basis we have to go off of in this situation. I guess Freeza could have lost some power due to the cybernetic body parts he has, but still it just seems off to me that Trunks could defeat him so easily.

It’s probably chalked up to a “this is what the author wants so that’s how it’s going to be” situation, but it’s something I never thought about until recently and it didn’t make sense to me.
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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by precita » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:57 am

Same way Goku was defeated by a common laser gun in Super.

Trunks clearly caught Freeza by surprise, immediately sliced him in half and then cut him into a million pieces and blew him up before he could react. Freeza literally didn't do anything, he didn't have time to block or dodge.

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by sintzu » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:32 am

Freeza didn't take him seriously and unlike Goku or Vegeta who'd brag about their power and give him a chance to fully power up, he took advantage of it to take him out as quickly as possible. I think had he fully powered up he would've given Trunks a very hard time or even killed him.
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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:31 am

Although Freeza was suppressed, the way everyone uses Freeza's death as a measure stick to the Super Saiyans and Trunks says he can beat a FP Freeza on the blink of an eye implies the outcome would be the same.

Absolutely nothing implies Trunks is Goku's equal. Gohan only says they have the same type of Super Saiyan Ki, not kis with the same size.
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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by SSJ2bardock » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:20 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
Absolutely nothing implies Trunks is Goku's equal. Gohan only says they have the same type of Super Saiyan Ki, not kis with the same size.
Right, which is what I’m saying and why it’s confusing to me. At this point Freeza is looked at as kind of a joke and not a real threat, but during those episodes he was still the scariest power besides Goku so it doesn’t seem to me that Trunks logically would have been at the point with his training to stand up to him regardless of being a super saiyan or not. I get WHY it was done story wise for the shock value, but I’m trying to make sense out of a 20 year old anime that makes no sense :lol: Like others have said though I guess he did catch him by surprise, but it’s interesting to see the liberties that are taken with things like that. Sometimes our heroes seem like invincible gods and other times they can be killed by a simple laser or being sneaked up on, it just depends on the story I guess.
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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by Doctor. » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:07 am

Gohan said Freeza could still become much stronger, so he was just suppressed or couldn't access his full power.

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by KBABZ » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:27 am

From a logistics standpoint, remember that Trunks grew up with the Androids running around, who were powerful enough to wipe out the likes of Vegeta and Piccolo, and was trained by Gohan. Given that he is also half-human (which seems to have positive effects on Super Saiyan access, see Kid Trunks and Goten), it makes sense with all that that he'd surpass Frieza.

From a storytelling standpoint it's also The Worf Effect. Frieza was the toughest opponent at that point and easily held the title for longest fight, then here comes this kid who A) Is a Saiyan, which as Vegeta points out shouldn't make any sense, and B) defeats Frieza and his dad (who in the anime is stated to be even STRONGER) in one shot, to show how badass he is. Everything in his introductory Chapters is what the 2018 kids would call #GetHyped. And on top of that, he then brings up how much trouble he's having with the Androids, which hypes THEM up because he just one-shotted Frieza! Goku himself points this out by saying "Well you just killed Frieza like it was nothing, so if you're saying these Androids are trouble then I'm sure they must be" (Kai dub dialogue).

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by Son_Gohan » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:39 pm

With his sword.

Freeza's overconfidence leads to his downfall on both occasions; the first by his own hand and then subsequently Trunks'.

It was never implied Goku got stronger during his time on Yardrat, by the way. Based on Gohan's statement, we know that both Super Saiyan Trunks & Goku have the same Ki (which isn't mutually exclusive with Ki size). And when both face off to transform, they describe each other using the term そっくり / sokkori which translates to "all; altogether; entirely; completely"; hardly exclusive to just visual appearance. So with the two Super Saiyans established as being about the same power, with no indication of Goku's having increased since his battle on Namek; it simply means Trunks possessed the killing intent and ruthlessness to get the job done where Goku did not.

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by thezander » Sat Feb 24, 2018 2:09 pm

Freeze went all out on trunks the first thing he did was throw a planet blowing up attack. Also the same attack Goku didn't or could not deflect on namek. Trunks was also a super Saiyan and freeze did not train at all in between it's not like golden form was a hidden latent power he needs to train which he didn't do at all before trunks so he would lose. Also he was trained by Gohan who fought freeza I doubt he have him specifics but surely Gohan picked up something fighting him because he's supposed to be smart and Incorporated it into his own fighting and mentoring technique. Not to mention trunks doesn't screw around he fights to kill not to measure up or anything. He knew who freeza was he went there on purpose and smoked him right away. Just like did the Androids and cell and debura and the wizard thing. If trunks struggled in the slightest it would be a stretch.

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:10 pm

You might as well ask why Freeza didn't immediately jump to 100% strength on Namek? The tyrant is so full of himself that he doesn't think he needs to use any real effort on beings that he views as inferior, he would rather opt to destroy the planet rather than push himself anyways. Prior to his revival, Freeza could only power-up to 70% of his strength without needing some time to go any higher, this amount of power wouldn't be enough to overwhelm SSJ Trunks.
With all of this in mind then I find it unlikely that Freeza could've even beaten Trunks by himself, his cybernetic parts don't seem to have made him as strong as he would like to think and Trunks' battle tactics aren't so careless as Goku's.
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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by superfan2024 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:11 pm

thezander wrote:Freeze went all out on trunks the first thing he did was throw a planet blowing up attack. Also the same attack Goku didn't or could not deflect on namek. Trunks was also a super Saiyan and freeze did not train at all in between it's not like golden form was a hidden latent power he needs to train which he didn't do at all before trunks so he would lose. Also he was trained by Gohan who fought freeza I doubt he have him specifics but surely Gohan picked up something fighting him because he's supposed to be smart and Incorporated it into his own fighting and mentoring technique. Not to mention trunks doesn't screw around he fights to kill not to measure up or anything. He knew who freeza was he went there on purpose and smoked him right away. Just like did the Androids and cell and debura and the wizard thing. If trunks struggled in the slightest it would be a stretch.
Filler. Filler. Filler.

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:05 pm

superfan2024 wrote:Filler. Filler. Filler.
How is it filler? It happens in the manga!

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by superfan2024 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:40 pm

KBABZ wrote:
superfan2024 wrote:Filler. Filler. Filler.
How is it filler? It happens in the manga!

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Did you not see me bold his comment?

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:16 pm

superfan2024 wrote:Did you not see me bold his comment?
Oops, you are correct, I apologize (don't remember seeing that in Kai!). Usually I trim down my quotes to what I'm talking about specifically, so when I missed the bolded part I assumed the filler comment was directed at the entire paragraph.

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:49 pm

Frieza wasn't at full power, was cocky, and was off guard. That said, he still wouldn't beat Trunks even if he was full power and serious, he would just last longer.

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by thezander » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:06 am

superfan2024 wrote:
thezander wrote:Freeze went all out on trunks the first thing he did was throw a planet blowing up attack. .


Filler. Filler. Filler.

Honestly I totally forgot that part until that day I made the post because I think I watched the fight to gauge what people were talking about. As for it being filler I did not read the strip and I did not intentionally use filler evidence to strengthen my claim. Besides that though I always had the impression that freeza was top of his game fighting trunks.

A couple thoughts on mechanics frieza as well. First how come once he was healed he couldn't regenerate some body. He has all these wacky transformations where he grows and shrinks it seems like he would naturally be in a cacoon of energy and it would grow back. Also frieza I thought had the best scientist and doctors pirates could steal why wouldn't that technology be not be able to challenge doctor gero? He made the most baller Androids ever seen, imagine skills like his combined with a dude like frieza he turned whoever 17 and 18 were into total maniacs anything close to that should make frieza even stronger.

The counter point to this though is frieza did not buff up like he could for a last ditch effort at brute strength. Trunks really didn't give him a chance at anything like that though.

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by superfan2024 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:23 pm

KBABZ wrote:
superfan2024 wrote:Did you not see me bold his comment?
Oops, you are correct, I apologize (don't remember seeing that in Kai!). Usually I trim down my quotes to what I'm talking about specifically, so when I missed the bolded part I assumed the filler comment was directed at the entire paragraph.
No problem bro!

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by Pantalones » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:40 am

Combination of three things...

1: Trunks was at least as strong as Goku was on Namek. Probably a bit stronger.

2: Unlike Goku, Trunks wasn't interested in having a good fight and didn't care about punishing Freeza for all the pain he'd caused by drawing things out -- he wanted to kill Freeza as quickly as possible just to get him out of the way and move on to more important things, like saving Goku and preventing this timeline from ending up like his.

3: Freeza wasn't in his bulked-up 100% state, so even if he had powered up to the highest level possible (without 100%) before attacking it would only be something like 50-70% of his full power. Even if his cybernetic parts boosted him a good bit beyond his former strength and his bulked-up 100% power ended up at 150,000,000 (so equal to the Goku who beat him before, which would explain his confidence in facing Goku with his dad coming along to help out), his 50% would be only 75,000,000 and even his 70% would barely be over 100 million. That's a much bigger power gap than Freeza vs. Goku on Namek, even if Trunks was no stronger than Goku was back then.

...okay, after Resurrection F/Super the list should technically be four things.

4: Freeza didn't bother to train before coming to Earth.

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by dario03 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:31 am

Pantalones wrote: 4: Freeza didn't bother to train before coming to Earth.
This is the big issue. If he had just trained a bit he would have been far to strong for everybody there. A quick workout on the way should be possible, something like
100 Push-Ups
100 Sit-Ups
100 Squats
10KM Running

How long did it take for them to get to Earth? A day or two of that should be enough (going by the 4 month thing) :)

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Re: How did Trunks beat Freeza?

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:55 am

dario03 wrote:
Pantalones wrote: 4: Freeza didn't bother to train before coming to Earth.
This is the big issue. If he had just trained a bit he would have been far to strong for everybody there. A quick workout on the way should be possible, something like
100 Push-Ups
100 Sit-Ups
100 Squats
10KM Running
Freeza had lost over half his body. I wonder if he could even train efficiently in that condition. At most he could probably do some pushups because his chest was still intact, but he had lost an arm, both legs, a good chunk of his torso and some of his head. Surely even he could not expect instant results from training like his completely revived self.

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