Is Jiren a Prodigy?

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Berserker1921
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Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Berserker1921 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:37 am

After seeing episode 127. Where Jiren started out as a little kid with seemingly no sign of power, to a mortal above gods in power. You think Jiren is more on the lines of a Frieza like Prodigy or a goku like Prodigy? I would love to hear what you think?

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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Firebolt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:32 am

A Goku-like prodigy. Just like Goku he had seemingly no power in the beginning, but after training hard with great teachers and gaining powerful motivation he became the strongest.

But unlike Goku, he abandoned trust and that's ultimately what will allow Goku to beat him, since Goku went Ultra Instinct because of his friends.

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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:54 am

It's framed as an unhealthy obsession for him, similar to Goku.

It's an idea I actually liked about the backstory, despite how poorly handled and generic it was. It would have been so easy to just say he's a prodigy or a mutant or an artificial being or any of the other excuses they've relied upon over the years to come up with new ways to challenge Goku. Instead, the implication is that he just became consumed by the need for strength and trained all his life. The difference between him and Goku is that even Goku has interests and cares outside of self-improvement, simple as they may be. Jiren has nothing and can never gain any satisfaction no matter how strong he gets.

Reading it back like that, I've just realised what Jiren is: an MCU villain. You know how so many of them are framed as a corrupted version of the hero, and how the difference between them is nearly always that the hero has friends and connections that give them purpose? Yeah, Jiren is like that. Unfortunately, given how badly they dropped the ball with him, I have a feeling he isn't going to be looked back on as a Killmonger or a Fisk.

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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:30 am

Firebolt wrote:A Goku-like prodigy. Just like Goku he had seemingly no power in the beginning, but after training hard with great teachers and gaining powerful motivation he became the strongest.

But unlike Goku, he abandoned trust and that's ultimately what will allow Goku to beat him, since Goku went Ultra Instinct because of his friends.
Goku took a gunshot to the head and lifted a car, how is that seemingly having no power in the beginning?
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Firebolt » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:43 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Firebolt wrote:A Goku-like prodigy. Just like Goku he had seemingly no power in the beginning, but after training hard with great teachers and gaining powerful motivation he became the strongest.

But unlike Goku, he abandoned trust and that's ultimately what will allow Goku to beat him, since Goku went Ultra Instinct because of his friends.
Goku took a gunshot to the head and lifted a car, how is that seemingly having no power in the beginning?
I was referring to the fact that he was born with an extremely low power level, or was that movie only?

I guess you're right though, next time I'll be more specific.

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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by majinwarman » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:03 am

Kataphrut wrote:It's framed as an unhealthy obsession for him, similar to Goku.

It's an idea I actually liked about the backstory, despite how poorly handled and generic it was. It would have been so easy to just say he's a prodigy or a mutant or an artificial being or any of the other excuses they've relied upon over the years to come up with new ways to challenge Goku. Instead, the implication is that he just became consumed by the need for strength and trained all his life. The difference between him and Goku is that even Goku has interests and cares outside of self-improvement, simple as they may be. Jiren has nothing and can never gain any satisfaction no matter how strong he gets.

Reading it back like that, I've just realised what Jiren is: an MCU villain. You know how so many of them are framed as a corrupted version of the hero, and how the difference between them is nearly always that the hero has friends and connections that give them purpose? Yeah, Jiren is like that. Unfortunately, given how badly they dropped the ball with him, I have a feeling he isn't going to be looked back on as a Killmonger or a Fisk.
You are right about Jiren. He really is just the opposite of Goku and really seems like a MCU villain. But, he is a like a mid-tier MCU villain not in the leagues of Loki or Killmonger.
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Muffin Man » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:49 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Firebolt wrote:A Goku-like prodigy. Just like Goku he had seemingly no power in the beginning, but after training hard with great teachers and gaining powerful motivation he became the strongest.

But unlike Goku, he abandoned trust and that's ultimately what will allow Goku to beat him, since Goku went Ultra Instinct because of his friends.
Goku took a gunshot to the head and lifted a car, how is that seemingly having no power in the beginning?
Well, it's relative. He had very little power compared to most species in the galaxy. Earthlings just happen to be an exceptionally weak race in the DB universe.

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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:17 pm

Muffin Man wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Firebolt wrote:A Goku-like prodigy. Just like Goku he had seemingly no power in the beginning, but after training hard with great teachers and gaining powerful motivation he became the strongest.

But unlike Goku, he abandoned trust and that's ultimately what will allow Goku to beat him, since Goku went Ultra Instinct because of his friends.
Goku took a gunshot to the head and lifted a car, how is that seemingly having no power in the beginning?
Well, it's relative. He had very little power compared to most species in the galaxy. Earthlings just happen to be an exceptionally weak race in the DB universe.
Is that really true, though? We haven't seen that many races. Maybe most of the weaker ones were wiped out by various dangers and Earth was just lucky.
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by lancerman » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:16 am

Goku wasn't a prodigy. He was a workhorse who trained exceptionally hard his entire life to reach the levels that he did. Gohan and Vegeta were prodigies. Gohan after a year of training surpassed his father's life work of training under the 3 greatest Martial Artists on the planet (Grandpa Gohan, Roshi, Kuriren) and then god himself. And Freeza we are led to believe was just naturally a tier below Super Saiyan without any training.

Jiren we don't know. It seems he trained very hard to get where he was.

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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by lancerman » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:27 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Muffin Man wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Goku took a gunshot to the head and lifted a car, how is that seemingly having no power in the beginning?
Well, it's relative. He had very little power compared to most species in the galaxy. Earthlings just happen to be an exceptionally weak race in the DB universe.
Is that really true, though? We haven't seen that many races. Maybe most of the weaker ones were wiped out by various dangers and Earth was just lucky.
Compared to the race Goku is part of he is exceptionally weak. Gohan after literally one year of training and at a much younger age would have beat virtually any opponent Goku encountered in the original Dragon Ball anime with no resistance. A 4 or 5 year old Gohan literally would have one punched Roshi or Tenshinhan out of the ring. Gohan in the Boo arc was the same age as Goku at the end of Dragon Ball and by that point he was strong the only people that could beat him were fused fighters (and I guess Beerus).

Goku should be compared to Saiyans and until he died and got extra training in the afterlife he was weaker than every Saiyan we know of in the series. Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta and Gohan plus 1 year of training. Freeza's race was also stronger. Characters like Zarbon, Dodoria, Recoome, Burter, Jeice, Ginyu, Pui Pui, Yakon, and Dodoria we are also led to believe were naturally stronger being without the exceptional training Goku received.

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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by thezander » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:07 am

I think the only prodigy in the show is frieza. Never trained a day in his life he got the shape he has by just moving furniture. Jiren totally sucked did he even fight the evil doer after he killed everyone the second time? I mean jiren after years of training and backup of for fighters still got wrecked forget it.

Goku too, how can someone lose and die that many times and be considered anything close to prodigy.

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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Akyon » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:46 pm

Well I mean Goku is a prodigy of sorts.

Outside his abnormal superhuman strength(which is subpar for a Saiyan at best prior to his training), Goku has always been extremely talented at picking up techniques and forming counter strategies simply by seeing them performed once even by Earthling standards.

Honestly most the cast are prodigies to various degrees;
Krillin learnt to fly on his own before his master and maybe even Goku(whose race can all do it as naturally as walking it seems) simply by observing Tien and Chiaoutzu who were taught it.
Tien learnt the Kamehameha and how to counter it after seeing it a grand total of once.
Yamcha, for all the mocking he gets, managed to create the first controllable ki energy ball in the whole damn series, something no other character had managed to that point.
Yajirobe was insanely tough for a human despite never training or having any understanding of ki he was more than enough to take Cymbol down in one blow.
Vegeta was stated to be more powerful than his father at a very young age.
Frieza, as stated was the most powerful being in the universe(outside the Gods, Angels and Demons) and he was naturally born that way.
Gohan was able to harm said most powerful being at the ripe old age of four.
Goten and Trunks(kid) both obtained a legendary form with laughable ease.
Videl picked up ki faster than any other human and even managed to learn how to fly something not all of the best martial artists and other prodigies could not managed.
Hell, Mr. Satan seems to be naturally just physically stronger than any non ki using human.

Jiren being a prodigy wouldn't be out of keeping with the story.
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Bruma rabu » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:17 pm

majinwarman wrote:But, he is a like a mid-tier MCU villain not in the leagues of Loki or Killmonger.
I think Jiren is better than those 2.
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by majinwarman » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:19 pm

Bruma rabu wrote:
majinwarman wrote:But, he is a like a mid-tier MCU villain not in the leagues of Loki or Killmonger.
I think Jiren is better than those 2.
Better than Killmonger and Loki? I mean it's your opinion but I disagree. I like Jiren but not that much.
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Bruma rabu » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:22 pm

majinwarman wrote:
Bruma rabu wrote:
majinwarman wrote:But, he is a like a mid-tier MCU villain not in the leagues of Loki or Killmonger.
I think Jiren is better than those 2.
Better than Killmonger and Loki? I mean it's your opinion but I disagree. I like Jiren but not that much.
I probably feel that way cause I'm not that invested in the MCU.
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by majinwarman » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:24 pm

Bruma rabu wrote:
majinwarman wrote:
Bruma rabu wrote: I think Jiren is better than those 2.
Better than Killmonger and Loki? I mean it's your opinion but I disagree. I like Jiren but not that much.
I probably feel that way cause I'm not that invested in the MCU.
I'm a huge comic book fan so maybe that's another reason why I like them better than Jiren. But, I still like Jiren though.
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by Bruma rabu » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:36 pm

majinwarman wrote: I'm a huge comic book fan so maybe that's another reason why I like them better than Jiren. But, I still like Jiren though.
You have whole stories explaining their motivations and backgrounds. Jiren had and like half an episode so I guess it makes sense why you'd like them better. While Jiren story isn't original I think it's unique to dragon ball as I can't necessarily think of anybody with that kinda of back ground in the series. I don't think Jiren is a prodigy, he just pushed him self as far as he can and then some.
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by majinwarman » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:41 pm

Bruma rabu wrote:
majinwarman wrote: I'm a huge comic book fan so maybe that's another reason why I like them better than Jiren. But, I still like Jiren though.
You have whole stories explaining their motivations and backgrounds. Jiren had and like half an episode so I guess it makes sense why you'd like them better. While Jiren story isn't original I think it's unique to dragon ball as I can't necessarily think of anybody with that kinda of back ground in the series. I don't think Jiren is a prodigy, he just pushed him self as far as he can and then some.
I think that you are right about Jiren. He is not a prodigy but pushed himself due to his past like many heroes who lost their loved ones.
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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by ToshioWrites » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:50 pm

My theory/headcanon is that he was a lot like gohan as a kid. He wasn't "low natural talent" ala goku but he wasn't freeza either in that regard. I consider Jiren to be what Gohan could be if he sought only to get stronger

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Re: Is Jiren a Prodigy?

Post by lancerman » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:03 am

Bruma rabu wrote:
majinwarman wrote: I'm a huge comic book fan so maybe that's another reason why I like them better than Jiren. But, I still like Jiren though.
You have whole stories explaining their motivations and backgrounds. Jiren had and like half an episode so I guess it makes sense why you'd like them better. While Jiren story isn't original I think it's unique to dragon ball as I can't necessarily think of anybody with that kinda of back ground in the series. I don't think Jiren is a prodigy, he just pushed him self as far as he can and then some.
Jiren's like what Thanos is right now. We know a very cursory knowledge about him, but we also know he's the top of the food chain. That alone makes him significant.

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