5 cells over 4 timelines.

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
MKCSTEALTH
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:43 pm

shadowfox87 wrote:
MKCSTEALTH wrote:I had always figured there were three timelines, which equaled out to 3 Cells.

Timeline 1: the Present
Timeline 2: Future Trunks Timeline
Timeline 3: Cell's Timeline

Cell #1: Present Timeline. Still a fetus(?), had yet to develop, was killed when they destroyed Geros lab
Cell #2: Cell from Trunk's Timeline. This Cell developed and grew, but before he could absorb the Androids, Trunks had returned from the past and killed them. This Cell was killed by Trunks in the last episodes of the Cell arc
Cell #3: Perfect Cell. This is the Cell from a timeline where Trunks returned after delivering the heart medicine, SOMEHOW killed the Androids, and was going to return to the past to meet with Goku and the others to tell of his victory, but was killed at the hands of this Cell, who would steal the time machine and go back to the past, eventually absorbing 17/18, become the big bad of the arc, and be killed by Gohan.

Where's the other timeline and 2 other Cells from?
There are four timelines as per the Daizenshuu 7 in DBZ before DBS. Your numbering is correct for both timelines and Cells. Timeline 4 is the Unseen timeline in which there is a Cell Games without Trunks. In this timeline, Trunks finds the blueprints for Androids 17 and 18 in the basement lab with Krillin. He doesn't stay and takes those blueprints back to his timeline (where he gets killed by Cell). The Unseen timeline was the hardest to explain with logic because it would never fit since it required another Cell. I've explained it here however: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40823
Basically the Cell#3 got split after Trunks decided to stay in one timeline and not the other. Btw, to answer your "SOMEHOW killed the Androids", we already know. In Timeline#2, Trunks kills Cell and the Androids with his own power while in Timeline#3, the Androids are killed via the remote controller that Future Bulma created from the blueprints Trunks brought back from the past. The Trunks from Timeline#3 never trained in Hyperbolic Time chamber so was killed by Cell.
Gotcha that makes sense. I mustve missed the part about the remote.

User avatar
Analytic
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:48 pm
Location: New York

Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Analytic » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:57 am

What do you guys think of this explanation?

[spoiler]Timeline 1

Age 764
* Trunks (Timeline 3) travels back in time and kills Freeza and King Cold
Age 767
* The Artificial Humans appear
* Trunks (Timeline 3) discovers the blueprints for the suspension controller and takes it back to the future to use on his cyborgs.

Cell in this timeline = Killed by Trunks/Krillin



Timeline 2 (Main Timeline)

Age 763
* Cell (Timeline 3) travels back in time
Age 764
* Trunks (Timeline 3) travels back in time and kills Freeza and King Cold
Age 767
* The Artificial Humans appear
* Cell (Timeline 3) shows up at Ginger Town

Cell in this timeline = Killed by Trunks/Krillin



Timeline 3 (Future Trunks/Perfect Cell Timeline)

Age 764
* Goku kills Freeza and King Cold
Age 785
* Trunks uses remote to shut off No. 17 and No. 18
Age 788
* Cell kills Trunks and uses his time machine to travel back in time

Cell in this timeline = Perfect Cell



Timeline 4 (Alternate Future Timeline)

* Goku kills Freeza and King Cold
Age 785
* Trunks kills No. 17 and No. 18
Age 788
* Trunks kills Cell

Cell in this timeline = Killed by Trunks[/spoiler]

Basically, T2 branches off of T1 when Cell shows up. T4 branches off of T3 since Trunks ends up training in the RoSaT in the past and is strong enough to defeat Cell.

User avatar
shadowfox87
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:09 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by shadowfox87 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:44 am

Analytic wrote:What do you guys think of this explanation?

[spoiler]Timeline 1

Age 764
* Trunks (Timeline 3) travels back in time and kills Freeza and King Cold
Age 767
* The Artificial Humans appear
* Trunks (Timeline 3) discovers the blueprints for the suspension controller and takes it back to the future to use on his cyborgs.

Cell in this timeline = Killed by Trunks/Krillin



Timeline 2 (Main Timeline)

Age 763
* Cell (Timeline 3) travels back in time
Age 764
* Trunks (Timeline 3) travels back in time and kills Freeza and King Cold
Age 767
* The Artificial Humans appear
* Cell (Timeline 3) shows up at Ginger Town

Cell in this timeline = Killed by Trunks/Krillin



Timeline 3 (Future Trunks/Perfect Cell Timeline)

Age 764
* Goku kills Freeza and King Cold
Age 785
* Trunks uses remote to shut off No. 17 and No. 18
Age 788
* Cell kills Trunks and uses his time machine to travel back in time

Cell in this timeline = Perfect Cell



Timeline 4 (Alternate Future Timeline)

* Goku kills Freeza and King Cold
Age 785
* Trunks kills No. 17 and No. 18
Age 788
* Trunks kills Cell

Cell in this timeline = Killed by Trunks[/spoiler]

Basically, T2 branches off of T1 when Cell shows up. T4 branches off of T3 since Trunks ends up training in the RoSaT in the past and is strong enough to defeat Cell.
Well the Main timeline is always Timeline 1 as per Toei's charts and Daizenshuu 7 / Chouzenshuu 4. Your Timeline 4 is off as that is the one in which Cell Games occurs without Trunks. We start with T1 that branches into T1 and T5 from the first time traveler from U12. Then Trunks travels back in time to give Goku the heart medicine, that causes T1 to split into T1 and T3. Then Cell travels back in time which causes Trunks to see photos of his cocoon and leads him to stay and train, splitting T1 into T1 and T4. Then Trunks goes back to T3 where he kills Cell, splitting T3 into T3 and T2. Later in Super, Beerus hakais Zamasu, splitting T1 into T1 and T6. Zeno erases T2. Trunks and Mai go back to the future before Babidi where Whis wakes up Beerus early, splitting T2 into T2 and T7. You can read about it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40823
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

User avatar
R. Daneel Olivaw
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 7:33 pm

Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by R. Daneel Olivaw » Sun May 13, 2018 8:09 pm

Didn't Future Cell (the one we see in the majority of the Cell Saga) have the memory of killing Trunks and stealing his time machine, although he didn't technically do it? I mean, he's just a copy of the Cell that was hiding in Future Trunks' timeline, and that was the Cell that had killed Trunks and taken his time machine. So, no version of Cell ever actually traveled back to the main timeline, it's just that a copy of him and the time machine was made by Future Trunks splitting the timeline, right? This means he has memories of an action he never committed, because his memories are a part of him and were copied along with the rest of the universe. I might be totally wrong here, but I think this makes sense. Does it?

User avatar
shadowfox87
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:09 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by shadowfox87 » Mon May 14, 2018 4:10 pm

R. Daneel Olivaw wrote:Didn't Future Cell (the one we see in the majority of the Cell Saga) have the memory of killing Trunks and stealing his time machine, although he didn't technically do it? I mean, he's just a copy of the Cell that was hiding in Future Trunks' timeline, and that was the Cell that had killed Trunks and taken his time machine. So, no version of Cell ever actually traveled back to the main timeline, it's just that a copy of him and the time machine was made by Future Trunks splitting the timeline, right? This means he has memories of an action he never committed, because his memories are a part of him and were copied along with the rest of the universe. I might be totally wrong here, but I think this makes sense. Does it?
No, the Cell we know is the future Cell from Trunks' timeline that killed Future Trunks and stole his time machine. He has the memories because he is the one who did it. There are four cells and 4 timelines before DBS. Cell took the time machine to travel back to the main timeline where Android 17 and 18 were. However, this did not immediately create a new timeline. The timeline was created after Trunks saw the photos of his time machine and Cell's cocoon, which caused him to make the decision to stay and train. Therefore, you have two timelines - Timeline 4, the Unseen Timeline, in which there is a Cell Games without Trunks because Trunks goes back to the future with the blueprints where he gets killed. Then there is the main timeline, Timeline 1, in which there is a Cell Games with Trunks.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

thesilentofficial
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:12 pm

Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by thesilentofficial » Mon May 14, 2018 5:02 pm

In my honest opinion I think people are making this more confusing than it has to be, I think the Trunks that warns Goku is the same one that returns to help them fight the androids. There are only 3 timelines, future trunks', future cell's, and the story timeline. Both future cell and trunks travelled to the same regular timeline.

Maybe the trunks from future cell's timeline beat the androids fair and square or with the remote by luck and never had previously travelled to a different timeline and was only just about to travel to warn goku about the heart virus. It's all speculation though isn't it?

User avatar
Desassina
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1367
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:04 am

Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by Desassina » Mon May 14, 2018 5:24 pm

I think that we should import the DBS time travel shenanigans into this topic. Goku Black will have existed in Trunks' future regardless of the latter having changed the events that led to the former. According to Toyotaro's scheme, it's the same timeline being altered, from which Goku Black would have departed had Trunks not been triggered by his presence. Can you see where I'm going with this? You can't ask whom the first time traveller was. The fact that Cell was the first one to arrive doesn't mean that he was the cause of every trip, given that he was the last one to depart, when Trunks had already done so. It's a straight line with characters showing up with memories of things that would have happened had they not changed them. It's supposed to be poetic.

User avatar
R. Daneel Olivaw
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 7:33 pm

Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by R. Daneel Olivaw » Mon May 14, 2018 5:57 pm

shadowfox87 wrote:No, the Cell we know is the future Cell from Trunks' timeline that killed Future Trunks and stole his time machine. He has the memories because he is the one who did it. There are four cells and 4 timelines before DBS. Cell took the time machine to travel back to the main timeline where Android 17 and 18 were. However, this did not immediately create a new timeline. The timeline was created after Trunks saw the photos of his time machine and Cell's cocoon, which caused him to make the decision to stay and train. Therefore, you have two timelines - Timeline 4, the Unseen Timeline, in which there is a Cell Games without Trunks because Trunks goes back to the future with the blueprints where he gets killed. Then there is the main timeline, Timeline 1, in which there is a Cell Games with Trunks.
I was under the impression that there 2 Cells in timeline 2 for some time, but it makes sense now why there isn't, because Trunks only killed one Cell when he went back, so that one must have been from Gero's lab in that same timeline. That's fair enough, but logically speaking, shouldn't the timeline have split the moment Cell arrived in timeline 1? Just because he didn't interact with anyone yet and was hiding underground doesn't mean he didn't make some sort of change. Does there have to be a certain amount of change to split a timeline? Even if all Cell does is step on a piece of grass, well, now that piece of grass was bent in a way it wasn't originally, so there has to be another timeline to account for that change. But that would be stupid.

Interestingly enough, the Dragon Ball wiki says Trunks killed Freeza and King Cold in timeline 3. That doesn't make any goddamn sense. It cites episode 143 as a source for this, but that would mean timeline 3 wasn't the original timeline, which it is. Even if it was possible with only 4 timelines, there would be no reason to do it, right? Timeline 4 Krillin must be pretty lonely.

User avatar
shadowfox87
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 776
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:09 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: 5 cells over 4 timelines.

Post by shadowfox87 » Mon May 14, 2018 11:39 pm

R. Daneel Olivaw wrote: I was under the impression that there 2 Cells in timeline 2 for some time, but it makes sense now why there isn't, because Trunks only killed one Cell when he went back, so that one must have been from Gero's lab in that same timeline. That's fair enough, but logically speaking, shouldn't the timeline have split the moment Cell arrived in timeline 1? Just because he didn't interact with anyone yet and was hiding underground doesn't mean he didn't make some sort of change. Does there have to be a certain amount of change to split a timeline? Even if all Cell does is step on a piece of grass, well, now that piece of grass was bent in a way it wasn't originally, so there has to be another timeline to account for that change. But that would be stupid.

Interestingly enough, the Dragon Ball wiki says Trunks killed Freeza and King Cold in timeline 3. That doesn't make any goddamn sense. It cites episode 143 as a source for this, but that would mean timeline 3 wasn't the original timeline, which it is. Even if it was possible with only 4 timelines, there would be no reason to do it, right? Timeline 4 Krillin must be pretty lonely.
Yes, you're right, which is what we all thought for several years, but DBS changed everything. In DBS, Trunks traveled back in time to escape Black. A new time ring was NOT created after this event. We know for a fact that when Gowasu opened the time ring box, he states that the last time ring appeared 3 years ago. However, when Beerus hakai'd Zamasu, it DID create a new time ring and timeline. Furthermore, Goku and Vegeta used the time machine to go back and forth multiple times to fight Black, but no new time rings were created. What does this mean? It means that in the DB verse, timelines are not created immediately after traveling back to the past. Yes, there's a change, but unless that change is "significant", it won't create a new timeline. So yes, stepping on a piece of grass can cause a butterfly effect. There are many sci-fi shows like Back to the Future which have defined time travel differently, but based on the information we have in Dragon Ball, this is how it works.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

Post Reply