Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

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Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by PFM18 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:32 pm

Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT in the 10 days before the Cell Games? Piccolo was planning out when everybody would go in and he said Goku and Gohan would go in again last, but Goku didn't want to use the other 24 hours. He could have used all 48 but I don't think he even used up the first day. He was extremely relaxed in the time leading up to the Cell Games despite admitting that he couldn't beat Cell.

He knew that Gohan had a better chance than he did and he knew that Gohan could draw out more power with anger but was he really banking the entire planet on Gohan the entire time? If so then why wouldn't he encurage Gohan to keep training in the 10 days and/or continue training with Gohan? That way he could ensure the best possible chance that Gohan could come out victorious.

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by Meshack » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:49 pm

He found another way to get stronger and that was having Super Saiyan cause less strain on the body.

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by PFM18 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:53 pm

Meshack wrote:He found another way to get stronger and that was having Super Saiyan cause less strain on the body.
Ok but he already did that in the first ROSAT visit. Couldn't he further his gains if he went in again?

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by Darkprince410 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:03 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Meshack wrote:He found another way to get stronger and that was having Super Saiyan cause less strain on the body.
Ok but he already did that in the first ROSAT visit. Couldn't he further his gains if he went in again?
He specifically felt like the gains he'd get from doing that would be needlessly torturous to him. Allowing Gohan's rage to give him the power boost needed to defeat Cell was what he was banking on in order to win.

In his own words:
Vegeta: “Well, well…So even the great Kakarot admits defeat against the rigors of that room…”
Goku: “Maybe…But pointlessly toughening up my body more than this is just torture, not training. But I won’t object if you guys enter that room again. It looks like you still have room left to toughen up more.”
Vegeta: “What was that…? I don’t like that…The way you said that made it sound like you’re saying that your true ability is greater than mine…”
Goku: “Yeah, a whole lot greater, I think.”

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by Desassina » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:37 pm

Is that why Goku Black was still able to get a near death recovery and increase his power while Vegeta was not? That could have been a great reference. Perhaps Goku will get to Ultra Instincts in the manga through another.

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by BlueVegerot » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:18 pm

Because 1 more day in there wouldn't have made any difference for him and he miscalculated gohans motivations so he didn't think it was necessary to give him another day in there.

7 years after the cell games, goku and majin vegeta were only somewhat stronger than cell games gohan so goku was probably right that 1 more day wouldn't have made any difference for him and instead would have hurt him

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by shadowfox87 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:39 pm

It was explained that he wanted to rest for the last day and also let Gohan rest. The training was essentially maintaining the SSJ state while relaxed. Whis also later stated in DBS that the reason Vegeta never catches up to Goku is because he doesn't learn to relax and trains too hard. Part of training requires the body to relax. If you over stress your muscles and your body, you don't get better - you reach a saturation point. Ki is about genki (vigor), shoki (mind), and yuki (courage). In order to focus on any competition even in the real world, most athletes will spend the last day not exercising and taking it easy to relax their mind (shoki).
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by Meshack » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:16 pm

Desassina wrote:Is that why Goku Black was still able to get a near death recovery and increase his power while Vegeta was not? That could have been a great reference. Perhaps Goku will get to Ultra Instincts in the manga through another.
Gokou-Black was able to get power ups from injury because Black never trained to his limit like Son Gokou and Vegeta. Although he does have Gokou's body, he has the mind of Zamasu and the body and mind are connected.

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by shadowfox87 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:49 pm

Meshack wrote:
Desassina wrote:Is that why Goku Black was still able to get a near death recovery and increase his power while Vegeta was not? That could have been a great reference. Perhaps Goku will get to Ultra Instincts in the manga through another.
Gokou-Black was able to get power ups from injury because Black never trained to his limit like Son Gokou and Vegeta. Although he does have Gokou's body, he has the mind of Zamasu and the body and mind are connected.
Actually, the zenkai boosts Black got was a result of him healing from Future Zamasu. This wasn't shown in the anime correctly as Black just got stronger from injury while zenkai works after getting healed. Each time he healed, Goku's cells fused with Zamasu's ki, making it more his own. When he got Goku's body initially, he couldn't access all of its strength and couldn't even turn SSJ. Just like Ginyu couldn't access Goku's strength either. As he healed more and more, he could access Goku's full power and get past the zenkai limit since it was his ki that was driving it. I explained and referenced the explanation Goku gives in the manga in my log power scale thread in my sig.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by Meshack » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:44 am

shadowfox87 wrote:
Meshack wrote:
Desassina wrote:Is that why Goku Black was still able to get a near death recovery and increase his power while Vegeta was not? That could have been a great reference. Perhaps Goku will get to Ultra Instincts in the manga through another.
Gokou-Black was able to get power ups from injury because Black never trained to his limit like Son Gokou and Vegeta. Although he does have Gokou's body, he has the mind of Zamasu and the body and mind are connected.
Actually, the zenkai boosts Black got was a result of him healing from Future Zamasu. This wasn't shown in the anime correctly as Black just got stronger from injury while zenkai works after getting healed. Each time he healed, Goku's cells fused with Zamasu's ki, making it more his own. When he got Goku's body initially, he couldn't access all of its strength and couldn't even turn SSJ. Just like Ginyu couldn't access Goku's strength either. As he healed more and more, he could access Goku's full power and get past the zenkai limit since it was his ki that was driving it. I explained and referenced the explanation Goku gives in the manga in my log power scale thread in my sig.
Well duhh. It doesn’t change the fact he got stronger from injury. That’s what the power up is. Look at Daizenshuu

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by shadowfox87 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:37 am

Meshack wrote: Well duhh. It doesn’t change the fact he got stronger from injury. That’s what the power up is. Look at Daizenshuu
Not just from the injury itself though. It's after being healed from that injury. In the anime, Black gets stronger after injury, no healing. That's what a zenkai is and has always been. You asked me to look at the Daizenshuu, well here it is, Daizenshuu 4:
Image
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:26 am

A better question would be, what changed between Z and Super, because now Goku is in ROSAT all the time.
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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by Meshack » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:51 pm

FoolsGil wrote:A better question would be, what changed between Z and Super, because now Goku is in ROSAT all the time.
He only went in there once.... Dende fixed the room.

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by Meshack » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:56 pm

shadowfox87 wrote:
Meshack wrote: Well duhh. It doesn’t change the fact he got stronger from injury. That’s what the power up is. Look at Daizenshuu
Not just from the injury itself though. It's after being healed from that injury. In the anime, Black gets stronger after injury, no healing. That's what a zenkai is and has always been. You asked me to look at the Daizenshuu, well here it is, Daizenshuu 4:
Image
Dude. I already know this. Why do you think the show never had Black getting healed? Have you ever heard the phrase “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”?

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by shadowfox87 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:34 pm

Meshack wrote: Dude. I already know this. Why do you think the show never had Black getting healed? Have you ever heard the phrase “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”?
If you already know this, then you should know that a Saiyan doesn't get stronger simply by getting injured. Zenkais have never worked like that through all of DBZ. Otherwise, Gohan, Vegeta, and Goku would've simply gotten stronger without healing. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" - this only works AFTER being healed. The anime showed it incorrectly. Future Zamasu healed Black after each fight and that's how he got stronger.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:54 pm

Meshack wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:A better question would be, what changed between Z and Super, because now Goku is in ROSAT all the time.
He only went in there once.... Dende fixed the room.
Made a mistake, that was Vegeta. Still though, Goku went in once more for 3 years, even though he claimed there was no point in Z.
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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:10 pm

FoolsGil wrote:A better question would be, what changed between Z and Super, because now Goku is in ROSAT all the time.
Plot.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by Meshack » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:33 pm

shadowfox87 wrote:
Meshack wrote: Dude. I already know this. Why do you think the show never had Black getting healed? Have you ever heard the phrase “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”?
If you already know this, then you should know that a Saiyan doesn't get stronger simply by getting injured. Zenkais have never worked like that through all of DBZ. Otherwise, Gohan, Vegeta, and Goku would've simply gotten stronger without healing. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" - this only works AFTER being healed. The anime showed it incorrectly. Future Zamasu healed Black after each fight and that's how he got stronger.
Still doesn’t change the fact Gokou-Black got stronger from injury.

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by Meshack » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:35 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
Meshack wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:A better question would be, what changed between Z and Super, because now Goku is in ROSAT all the time.
He only went in there once.... Dende fixed the room.
Made a mistake, that was Vegeta. Still though, Goku went in once more for 3 years, even though he claimed there was no point in Z.
In Super SON GOKOU went in once but stayed for three days. Gokou even says there was no point in Super since they were at their limit but Vegeta insisted.

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Re: Why didn't Goku go back into the ROSAT before the Cell Games?

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:55 pm

Meshack wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:
Meshack wrote: He only went in there once.... Dende fixed the room.
Made a mistake, that was Vegeta. Still though, Goku went in once more for 3 years, even though he claimed there was no point in Z.
In Super SON GOKOU went in once but stayed for three days. Gokou even says there was no point in Super since they were at their limit but Vegeta insisted.
Don't you "SON GOKOU" me, I'll spell Goku how the hell I want.
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