If Beerus & Whis Are Still A "10" & "15" Then Where Is UIO/MUI Goku At?

[theherodjl]

Should UIO Goku now hold the previous level of a "6", and then maybe it be a "12" if MUI is twice as powerful as UIO? Maybe higher or lower?

[ToshioWrites]

No, 1st and 2nd UIO are not pushing beerus to 70% of his power, 3rd UIO is >= Beerus according to an Toei Animedia spread.

Also MUI Goku is nowhere near Whis IMO, i think the gap between angels and GoDs is as big as the gap between SSG Goku(DBS BoG) and Beerus


If we were to adhere to this scale, 3rd UIO = 10
MUI =12

[theherodjl]

No, 1st and 2nd UIO are not pushing beerus to 70% of his power, 3rd UIO is >= Beerus according to an Toei Animedia spread.

Also MUI Goku is nowhere near Whis IMO, i think the gap between angels and GoDs is as big as the gap between SSG Goku(DBS BoG) and Beerus


If we were to adhere to this scale, 3rd UIO = 10
MUI =12

Why would the 3rd UIO be equal to Beerus, but not the other ones? Its Goku after having recovered some of his stamina due to Vegeta's parting gift, and then activating UIO again. At the very least, first & third UIO should be around the same level considering the amount of power that they were both running on.

[ToshioWrites]

No, 1st and 2nd UIO are not pushing beerus to 70% of his power, 3rd UIO is >= Beerus according to an Toei Animedia spread.

Also MUI Goku is nowhere near Whis IMO, i think the gap between angels and GoDs is as big as the gap between SSG Goku(DBS BoG) and Beerus


If we were to adhere to this scale, 3rd UIO = 10
MUI =12

Why would the 3rd UIO be equal to Beerus, but not the other ones? Its Goku after having recovered some of his stamina due to Vegeta's parting gift, and then activating UIO again. At the very least, first & third UIO should be around the same level considering the amount of power that they were both running on.

1st UIO was relative to Jiren in the special who wasn't even trying. Remember according to Belmod, he only started to show a hint of his power in episode 123.
2nd UIO was described as "goku attempting to approach the stated of the GoDs"
3rd UIO Goku was fighting evenly with a jiren who had powered up massively in episode 127 and required jiren to go FP with a power impact to defeat him.

Hell I could make a legit argument, ssb kkx20 goku episode 123 was beyond 1st UIO in pure power

[theherodjl]

1st UIO was relative to Jiren in the special who wasn't even trying. Remember according to Belmod, he only started to show a hint of his power in episode 123.
2nd UIO was described as "goku attempting to approach the stated of the GoDs"
3rd UIO Goku was fighting evenly with a jiren who had powered up massively in episode 127 and required jiren to go FP with a power impact to defeat him.

Hell I could make a legit argument, ssb kkx20 goku episode 123 was beyond 1st UIO in pure power

Jiren likely wasn't at the same degree of power as when he first fought UIO. He had spent some time fighting U7, and taking slight damage before Goku rematched him UIO.

The 1st UIO was stronger than Kaio-ken x20 SSJB. SSJB Kaio-ken Goku at a more fresh state was unable to land a single strike on a fresh Jiren, yet the 1st UIO was about on par with the degree of power that fresh Jiren used.

[ToshioWrites]

1st UIO was relative to Jiren in the special who wasn't even trying. Remember according to Belmod, he only started to show a hint of his power in episode 123.
2nd UIO was described as "goku attempting to approach the stated of the GoDs"
3rd UIO Goku was fighting evenly with a jiren who had powered up massively in episode 127 and required jiren to go FP with a power impact to defeat him.

Hell I could make a legit argument, ssb kkx20 goku episode 123 was beyond 1st UIO in pure power

Jiren likely wasn't at the same degree of power as when he first fought UIO. He had spent some time fighting U7, and taking slight damage before Goku rematched him UIO.

The 1st UIO was stronger than Kaio-ken x20 SSJB. SSJB Kaio-ken Goku at a more fresh state was unable to land a single strike on a fresh Jiren, yet the 1st UIO was about on par with the degree of power that fresh Jiren used.

In episode 123 goku did better vs a jiren that was using more power than he did in episode 110 than ssbkkx20 goku did back in the special episode
Goku and Vegeta both got massively more powerful throughout the tournament.

1st UIO <= Casual Jiren

3rd UIO required jiren to go fp with a power impact in an attempt to end the fight, the power jump between 1st omen and 3rd omen is humungous

[PFM18]

The 10 and 15 is no longer a thing. The difference between Beerus and Whis is far beyond just 50%.

Now if we are talking about a scale in which Beerus is a 10, then I think that UI Goku after the rage boost he got when Jiren fired the ki blast into the stands, is a 16 or 17 or so. I'd say Limits Broken Jiren is a 15, Full-Power Jiren is a 12, and SSBE Vegeta is a 7 or 8.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I think Jiren is no more than 10% greater than Beerus' full power.

[JulieYBM]

I think the difference is neggligible. Until Toriyama us ready for Gokuu to surpass Beers then he might as well still be a five.

[ToshioWrites]

I think Jiren is no more than 10% greater than Beerus' full power.

What?

Jiren in the anime was implied to be above Beerus even before he broke his limits and in the manga we know he’s stronger than Belmod and while Beerus is Top 2 GoD , he’s not 10 times stronger than the other GoDs or anywhere near that

[theherodjl]

I think Jiren is no more than 10% greater than Beerus' full power.

Then that would mean Belmod is less than 10% of Beerus' strength. Belmod, in either the manga or anime, is never remotely implied to be multiples weaker than Beerus. In fact, it seems Belmod was built up to be one of the stronger Hakaishin. I just can't see the difference between Belmod & Beerus being, justified to any extent, ten times greater or more.

[Koitsukai]

Then we would have to fit the first 108 episodes of Super between 7 and 10, then probably Jiren = 11, and maybe a 12 shirtless Jiren and 12.5 for GOKU BLANCO?

[Hugo Boss]

Then we would have to fit the first 108 episodes of Super between 7 and 10, then probably Jiren = 11, and maybe a 12 shirtless Jiren and 12.5 for GOKU BLANCO?

I would put Goku and Jiren on equal grounds in power, perhaps with Jiren having a slight edge on brute force, but Goku showed to be superior in combat.

[PFM18]

I think Jiren is no more than 10% greater than Beerus' full power.

How do you come to this conclusion exactly?

[shadowfox87]

Should UIO Goku now hold the previous level of a "6", and then maybe it be a "12" if MUI is twice as powerful as UIO? Maybe higher or lower?

Hmm, you can check out my log power scaling which addresses this: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610

Many consider the 6, 10, and 15 scale to be outdated and it is outdated for Goku because it only represents where he was at in BoG. The scales can also not be used as linear. However, if you DO want to still use these scales, then read through the above and you'll see how it can be used logarithmically. I don't like using power levels, so I use scales. Be warned as I use manga for my scaling. Still gotta wait for more chapters and the ToP arc to finish. For me, UI Goku is a 12.1 and Whis is 15. Since this is log scale, the difference is actually 15-12.1 = 2.9 or 10^2.9 ~ 800x times.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I think Jiren is no more than 10% greater than Beerus' full power.

How do you come to this conclusion exactly?

Just so you know I'm using a combination of the anime and manga continuities here.

For one thing I don't see Belmod as being stronger than Beerus. At most he beat him in arm wrestling once, which as Beerus himself said is hardly proof of superiority, let alone across-the-board superiority. And the manga implies it was Quitela anyway. Beerus also did great against all of the other Hakaishin at once in the manga.

[ToshioWrites]

I think Jiren is no more than 10% greater than Beerus' full power.

How do you come to this conclusion exactly?

Just so you know I'm using a combination of the anime and manga continuities here.

For one thing I don't see Belmod as being stronger than Beerus. At most he beat him in arm wrestling once, which as Beerus himself said is hardly proof of superiority, let alone across-the-board superiority. And the manga implies it was Quitela anyway. Beerus also did great against all of the other Hakaishin at once in the manga.

In episode 93, whis implies Belmod > Beerus

In 110, Whis speculates jiren might be beyond the level of GoDs alltogether

A spread put out by toei basically implied 3rd UIO >= Beerus

In the manga there is nothing suggesting beerus is 10 times greater in terms of pure raw power over the other GoDs especially Belmod

[Polyphase Avatron]

How do you come to this conclusion exactly?

Just so you know I'm using a combination of the anime and manga continuities here.

For one thing I don't see Belmod as being stronger than Beerus. At most he beat him in arm wrestling once, which as Beerus himself said is hardly proof of superiority, let alone across-the-board superiority. And the manga implies it was Quitela anyway. Beerus also did great against all of the other Hakaishin at once in the manga.

In episode 93, whis implies Belmod > Beerus

In 110, Whis speculates jiren might be beyond the level of GoDs alltogether

A spread put out by toei basically implied 3rd UIO >= Beerus

In the manga there is nothing suggesting beerus is 10 times greater in terms of pure raw power over the other GoDs especially Belmod

Implications and speculation don't hold much water IMO. And I never said he was 10 times more powerful.

[ToshioWrites]

Just so you know I'm using a combination of the anime and manga continuities here.

For one thing I don't see Belmod as being stronger than Beerus. At most he beat him in arm wrestling once, which as Beerus himself said is hardly proof of superiority, let alone across-the-board superiority. And the manga implies it was Quitela anyway. Beerus also did great against all of the other Hakaishin at once in the manga.

In episode 93, whis implies Belmod > Beerus

In 110, Whis speculates jiren might be beyond the level of GoDs alltogether

A spread put out by toei basically implied 3rd UIO >= Beerus

In the manga there is nothing suggesting beerus is 10 times greater in terms of pure raw power over the other GoDs especially Belmod

Implications and speculation don't hold much water IMO. And I never said he was 10 times more powerful.

basic math bro

if jiren is 10% of beerus then beerus is 10 times jiren, jiren is above belmod which means beerus would be more than 10 times stronger than belmod

[Lati]

Honestly, I'm too lazy to do exact calculations, but I'll just go off the progression of forms of techniques. I'd consider Omen around a 9, since I would consider Blue a 7, and Blue Kaioken around an 8. I'd considered MUI around a 11-12, since even Beerus has trouble with the mastery of self-movement. If we wanna get kinda technical though, Beerus could still technically win because he has Hakai, and can just delete Goku, but eh. He probably wouldn't resort to that, so Goku may eventually win in the end. It'd definitely be close, though.