If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

Champa The Destroyer
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:20 pm

If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:53 am

Think about it: According to Bardock: The Father of Goku, the Saiyans were rapidly becoming stronger, and eventually could become a threat to even Freeza. Fast forward to DBS, Goku has surpassed even Beerus, Vegeta is quickly approaching that level, and Gohan (the only hybrid that trains now) has rapidly approached even Super Saiyan Blue. In addition, while hybrids are inherently stronger, it seems that each generation has more potential than the last.


Wouldn't this eventually lead to the strongest warriors being MUI level, after many generations? Furthermore, if they keep their barbaric ways, they could pose a serious threat to the Universe, and perhaps other Universes.

Discuss.

theherodjl
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1395
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by theherodjl » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:30 pm

I doubt it. The U7 Saiyans were a bunch of degenerate killers that mostly didn't care about their fellow compatriots enough to want to help each other overcome obstacles. Their order comprised of whoever was stronger would be higher on the ladder of importance, and that anyone too weak to be important deserved to die. Goku, despite having become the strongest Saiyan who ever lived, would never have been allowed to grow in strength on Planet Vegeta because he was born a low-class warrior, and he may have been killed off just because of that. The stigma of "status" would have never allowed U7's Saiyans to ever become strong enough to rule the universe or any other universe.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5884
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:35 am

Only if their culture completely changed, as the S-Cells are more common in peaceful environments and the SSJG ritual requires pure hearts. So as long as the Saiyan race remained violent and bloodthirsty they could never achieve their true potential.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
PFM18
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 3701
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by PFM18 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:53 pm

Wouldn't this eventually lead to the strongest warriors being MUI level, after many generations? Furthermore, if they keep their barbaric ways, they could pose a serious threat to the Universe, and perhaps other Universes.

Discuss.
MUI level is an unquantifiable, unimaginably large amount stronger than the average saiyan during this time. They would be lucky to reach Buu Arc Goku and Vegeta level. And if they wanted to gain significant power, we have seen it is imperative that you have atleast decent ethics, especially since dead people don't make very good training partners. Rather than massacring those they can, they should train with them and grow with them. If they stayed the way they were, they would almost certainly stay fodder to Namek Freeza.
theherodjl wrote:I doubt it. The U7 Saiyans were a bunch of degenerate killers that mostly didn't care about their fellow compatriots enough to want to help each other overcome obstacles. Their order comprised of whoever was stronger would be higher on the ladder of importance, and that anyone too weak to be important deserved to die. Goku, despite having become the strongest Saiyan who ever lived, would never have been allowed to grow in strength on Planet Vegeta because he was born a low-class warrior, and he may have been killed off just because of that. The stigma of "status" would have never allowed U7's Saiyans to ever become strong enough to rule the universe or any other universe.
Yeah pretty much. Well said. Unless they changed their ways they wouldn't really get very strong at all even if they were spared by Freeza.(And Beerus for that matter)

User avatar
Jackalope89
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 908
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by Jackalope89 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:35 pm

What? No! Not at all! Didn't you know? The Saiyans were only dangerous because Freeza enslaved them. [/misinformed fanfiction author]

Sadly, some people actually believe that sort of thing. Don't ask me where they got it, but they do.

But if the Saiyans had continued to rapidly grow in strength, like Bardock for example, even the rest of Freeza's army would have been in trouble. Barring the elites, for a time at least.

User avatar
Yuli Ban
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:07 am
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by Yuli Ban » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:50 pm

Jackalope89 wrote:What? No! Not at all! Didn't you know? The Saiyans were only dangerous because Freeza enslaved them. [/misinformed fanfiction author]

Sadly, some people actually believe that sort of thing. Don't ask me where they got it, but they do.
Before Dragon Ball Minus, I'd say that it's more a species-wide case of Draco In Leather Pants.
After Dragon Ball Minus, it's really been due to some really bad handling of the writing in the series (so what else is new?) that made it out to sound like Saiyans are really just super-strong Humans with monkey tails and a society led by their equivalent of the Marines/Spartans/Mongols, which Freeza exploited for his own gain, and that we only ever saw the Saiyan military (you'd expect a military to be composed of brutal fighters, hopefully) whereas general Saiyan society was much more civil. It doesn't help that everytime we saw the Saiyans alone, they were portrayed more as roughnecks— Bardock's special, mainly. What's more, the dub also made it out that Raditz and Nappa weren't completely evil, with Nappa even expressing concern for Raditz and the saibaman Vegeta killed, and this was capped off with the revelation that Freeza did indeed make Vegeta far more brutal than he likely would have been on his own (with Tagoma's change from dark-hearted but not sadistic official into utter bloodlusting monster after being Freeza's punching bag for 4 months confirming Freeza's corruptor status).

It also helps that we're thinking in terms of standard worldbuilding, fleshing things out like other series have done, imagining how life functions in society rather than just on screen during intense moments, but Dragon Ball is very much in-the-moment sort of series with a duality of morality. From a realistic standpoint, it doesn't make sense for literally every individual to be an evil destroyer because then society can't function— only a few of the Nazis were actually as evil as commonly portrayed, after all, because if they all were that evil, the regime as a whole would have collapsed in on itself within a month!

So I can definitely see where they're coming from because I personally believe it myself, and it's hard to really "get" Dragon Ball's childish nature when you're an adult. You just want there to be more nuance.
May or may not be writing a Dragon Ball-inspired serial.

User avatar
Lionel
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1731
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by Lionel » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:20 pm

All the original Saiyan people of Planet Vegeta had going for them was incessant exposure to tumultuous combat conditions that might have occasionally netted them a modest zenkai. Saiyans were already hailed as being an extraordinary battle oriented species of entity. Who all could have provided the challenges needed for consistent power gain? Besides, Freeza had already caught wind of their power growth and was likely going to clamp down on the challenges they faced in their missions like he did with Vegeta if he didn't kill them all. Under those circumstances, all the Saiyans would have left is sparring with each other. It doesn't sound like something outside of the realm of possibility since Saiyans do have varying degrees of personality. However, there wouldn't have been enough cohesiveness or dependability for them to get very far with just each other. Besides, Freeza would have probably caught on to that scheme as well and nipped it in the bud.

I think anything greater than the single digit thousands for any Saiyan outside of the royal family would have been deemed "too much" for Freeza's peace of mind -- he wants the lowly simian grunts to be within a well manageable place not just for himself but probably his non-Saiyan troops as well. Saiyans already were capable of multiplying their power by 10 times its normal amount, meaning that just mid-ranking members could prove to be a hazard for the strongest in Freeza's ranks if a full moon were available. Unless the tyrant instituted a wide-scale eugenics program to render the Saiyans incapable of growing tails, his empire's infrastructure would have been tenuously endangered at all hours, should the Saiyans ever choose to revolt. If the Saiyans weren't massacred then they would have been martially subjugated so as to prevent their species from gaining too much power.

User avatar
FoolsGil
I Live Here
Posts: 4157
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by FoolsGil » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:12 pm

I doubt they'd become universal threats. Consider that in Freeza's Army, before Vegeta discovered Zenkai, there were mooks just as strong as Vegeta, and he's supposed to be the strongest of all the Saiyans. That gives an idea of where they were on the totem pole. Now yes, their Great Ape Forms could be a factor, but:

1) Not every planet has a moon
2) I doubt every Saiyan Warrior would know how to make a fake moon
3) Dragonball showed us that a Great Ape without self control can be dispatched with a little luck.

They wouldn't get far. The elites may be around, but they're going to be so few in number, they can't travel to every planet their third class warriors can't take down.
Dragonball Exiles Chapter One. Chapter Two In Production.

User avatar
Jackalope89
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 908
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 pm

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by Jackalope89 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:59 pm

FoolsGil wrote:I doubt they'd become universal threats. Consider that in Freeza's Army, before Vegeta discovered Zenkai, there were mooks just as strong as Vegeta, and he's supposed to be the strongest of all the Saiyans. That gives an idea of where they were on the totem pole. Now yes, their Great Ape Forms could be a factor, but:

1) Not every planet has a moon
2) I doubt every Saiyan Warrior would know how to make a fake moon
3) Dragonball showed us that a Great Ape without self control can be dispatched with a little luck.

They wouldn't get far. The elites may be around, but they're going to be so few in number, they can't travel to every planet their third class warriors can't take down.
However, with the healing pods, training, and intense fights (which they crave anyway), there is the possibility of them making rather large leaps in terms of power in rather short order, as Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta proved time and time again.

User avatar
AnimeNation101
I Live Here
Posts: 2191
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:01 pm
Location: Planet ShoJump

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by AnimeNation101 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:31 pm

Beerus would wake up and just kill them all.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

"I don't think I'm a hero of justice or anythin'. But those who'd hurt my friends... I won't forgive!"

User avatar
ShadowBardock89
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1365
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:40 pm

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:21 am

AnimeNation101 wrote:Beerus would wake up and just kill them all.
Yup. Unless (thanks to Super), Zeno erased U7 for having a low population than even Beerus is screwed.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40715&start=20#p1439892
http://dba.bn-ent.net/character/barduck.html
https://i.imgur.com/86hOk5i.gif

precita
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5468
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by precita » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:30 am

Radditz and Nappa were considered among the strongest Saiyans and as we know now they were weak as hell. So no I doubt it.

Ssjcell
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:15 pm

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by Ssjcell » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:20 pm

With guys like kui zarbon dodoria and frieza around the answer is no

User avatar
Hulk10
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1128
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm
Location: New Sadala

Re: If Planet Vegeta hadn't been destroyed, would the Saiyans have become the biggest threat in all of the Universes?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:59 am

There is no reason why Saiyans can't be civil to each other on planet...…… :think:

Also we simply don't know enough about their culture yet. The upcoming DBS movie is supposed to reveal more about their culture. Though Toriyama has revealed things about their culture, like having fighting rings instead of amusement parks.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.

Post Reply