God Ki & SS4

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ekrolo2
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God Ki & SS4

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:53 pm

Recently I did a discussion with ZombieVito discussing the mechanics behind what Super Saiyan Blue is and what got brought up was it being SS1 mixed with God Ki. We didn't reach a consensus about why you can't meld 2 and 3 with God Ki but lets assume 1 just has better emotional control. 4 is also known as being a very stable transformation, which brings up the question of it's compatibility with God Ki?

I of course mean trained God Ki, not the situation we have with Xeno Goku where it was a one time boost he got but never capitalized on. Would a trained in God Ki Goku with SS4 produce a blue haired variant of it?
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by sintzu » Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:06 pm

If SsjB can have a grade 2 (that's what Blue evolution was designed as) then theoretically it could have Ssj2, 3 and 4 versions as well. I don't think they're going to go down that road as there are too many forms and from the looks of it they may be going down the road of simplifying things by just having Ssj1, Ssjg(the new ssj2) and SsjB (the new Ssj3). UI will show up every now and then when things get tough and if Ssj4 is introduced it'll remain as is without any variants.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:52 pm

I can see SSJ4 mixed with god ki totally possible (and i won't be surprised if it actually happens soon in DBH lol).

Although SSJ4 doesn't have gold hair so it doesn't have to mean SSJ4 God hair would be blue. Maybe only fur would change color. Maybe it would be different color.
Hard to tell.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:15 pm

God Ki Ozaru would probably be a Blue Ozaru.
No idea what that might mean for SS4. Maybe red hair and brown fur ;)

For SS4 itself, no reason they couldn't mix. Hell, given SS4 seems to resolve most issues of the SS transformation(except the heightened aggressiveness, but even that is much toned down compared to SS1-2), it might be even easier to achieve.

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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:21 pm

I concur there is no reason they couldn't mix.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Saturnine » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:46 am

SSj4 Blue would be cool to have. Red hair would feel too similar to Gogeta's own SSj4, so something else would need to be come up with. Blue or white would be good picks I think. SSj4 could use anything, really - to make it feel more like an ultimate form and not as some sort of transition. I'd have liked it much more if it were just gold, and not this random red color.

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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:59 pm

Saturnine wrote:SSj4 Blue would be cool to have. Red hair would feel too similar to Gogeta's own SSj4, so something else would need to be come up with. Blue or white would be good picks I think. SSj4 could use anything, really - to make it feel more like an ultimate form and not as some sort of transition. I'd have liked it much more if it were just gold, and not this random red color.
Oh yeah there would be no matching it either.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by shadowfox87 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:55 pm

There's possible hope in SDBH to have something like this occur if Goku: Xeno fuses with DBS Goku using the fusion dance. So far, they've only revealed SSJ4 Vegetto but if SSB Vegetto wasn't enough there's no reason why SSJ4 Vegetto is. So I think we may get another fusion.

There was once a theory behind the reason why SSJ4 Gogeta had red hair. It was thought that Goku had recently absorbed the energies of Goten, Trunks, Gohan, Pan, and Uub. After fusing with Vegeta, that makes him the 5th Saiyan to absorb the energy. So as per the SSG ritual, he would temporarily attain SSG. GT ended so we haven't really seen SSJ4 Gogeta again except in SDBH which he again has red hair. If it were to happen, I think red hair would fit perfectly. The Blue aura is only due to SSJ mixing with God ki. However, SSJ4 is not a transformation from SSJ, but Oozaru.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Saturnine » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:03 pm

I really liked fanart where SSj4 + Blue had Blue-like cyan hair and dark cobalt fur. That actually looked pretty badarse.

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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:31 am

I kinda like the idea of the form being the same blue color as the SSB.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Saturnine » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:21 pm

sintzu wrote:If SsjB can have a grade 2 (that's what Blue evolution was designed as) then theoretically it could have Ssj2, 3 and 4 versions as well. I don't think they're going to go down that road as there are too many forms and from the looks of it they may be going down the road of simplifying things by just having Ssj1, Ssjg(the new ssj2) and SsjB (the new Ssj3). UI will show up every now and then when things get tough and if Ssj4 is introduced it'll remain as is without any variants.
An in-universe reason could be that SSj2 and 3 only multiply the non-godly component, making boosts from them utterly inconsequential compared to just SSj1 blue. Vegeta's evolved form proved to be a complete merge instead, making him like 20 times stronger than previously.

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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by PFM18 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:40 pm

sintzu wrote:(that's what Blue evolution was designed as)
It may have been the original design, but that's clearly not what we see in the final product. Blue Evolution was achieved by breaking his limits and was equivalent to a Kaiokenx20 on top of the normal abilities of the form, you can't say either of those things about Grade 2.
SSJ4 Vegetto but if SSB Vegetto wasn't enough there's no reason why SSJ4 Vegetto is.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Xeztin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:09 pm

There is a doujinshi called DBVS that deals of a what if between Goku Black and SSJ4 Goku, whom acheived God Ki while fighting Black and this was the result... It was actually pretty good writing. The fight happened when Black got yanked back into the portal during his fight with Goku when he was a SSJ in the present because he ended up in GT's timeline somehow. He acheived Rose here as well against GT Goku, since the next time we see Black in the official material, he already had Rose off screen.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:14 pm

That combination of colors really doesn't work. Having the black hair was a very deliberate design choice to help it and the fur stick out from one another, making it blue-ish just kind of looks garish.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Xeztin » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:18 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:That combination of colors really doesn't work. Having the black hair was a very deliberate design choice to help it and the fur stick out from one another, making it blue-ish just kind of looks garish.
I doubt it would change the color of the fur to be honest, but making his hair Blue or the color of SSJB would more or less probably be what it'd look like if it was official. So it'd probably be the normal fur color and Light blue hair if I had to guess which would look weird as well. But as far as black and white manga, that'd probably be it :)

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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:19 pm

Xeztin wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:That combination of colors really doesn't work. Having the black hair was a very deliberate design choice to help it and the fur stick out from one another, making it blue-ish just kind of looks garish.
I doubt it would change the color of the fur to be honest, but making his hair Blue or the color of SSJB would more or less probably be what it'd look like if it was official. So it'd probably be the normal fur color and Light blue hair if I had to guess which would look weird as well.
Yeah its one of the problems with trying to alter 4s appearance for hypothetical variants or combos with other forms. This is why ideally, a God Ki powered SS4 would look like the regular one with maybe a different shaped aura to visually distinguish it.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:20 am

ekrolo2 wrote:
Xeztin wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:That combination of colors really doesn't work. Having the black hair was a very deliberate design choice to help it and the fur stick out from one another, making it blue-ish just kind of looks garish.
I doubt it would change the color of the fur to be honest, but making his hair Blue or the color of SSJB would more or less probably be what it'd look like if it was official. So it'd probably be the normal fur color and Light blue hair if I had to guess which would look weird as well.
Yeah its one of the problems with trying to alter 4s appearance for hypothetical variants or combos with other forms. This is why ideally, a God Ki powered SS4 would look like the regular one with maybe a different shaped aura to visually distinguish it.
I agree.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by ankokudaishogun » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:31 am

Saturnine wrote:An in-universe reason could be that SSj2 and 3 only multiply the non-godly component, making boosts from them utterly inconsequential compared to just SSj1 blue. Vegeta's evolved form proved to be a complete merge instead, making him like 20 times stronger than previously.
There isn't supposed to be any non-god component.
Blue is just going Super Saiyan with God Ki.

If anything, either is much harder to tweak the Blue transformation so to get improved gainsas Super Saiyan 2 and 3(which aren't anything more than tweaks on the basic SS transfromation) or, viceversa, Blue is so stable Goku&Vegeta ALREADY perfected it making the actual use of further transformations superfluous.
That's why Goku had to go back to Kaiohken to get a fast power-upgrade instead of using a "Super Blue 2". Vegeta's Blue Evolution, being a limit-breaking form, is probably as inefficent as Kaiohken.


That said, I'm not convinced a God Ki SS4 would show elements of Blue: I think it would be more like God, given normal SS4 doesn't show anything of normal SS.
Bright fur, slimmer and red eyes, mayebe?

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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:10 am

A SS4 with God ki would be virtually unstoppable.
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Re: God Ki & SS4

Post by theherodjl » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:04 am

Hulk10 wrote:A SS4 with God ki would be virtually unstoppable.
Why is that exactly? SSJ3 Goku with God Ki was nearly defeated by a SSJ2 Trunks with no God Ki in the manga. He needed to briefly use SSJG, not a far cry behind SSJ4 in raw power, to beat Trunks. That's not to say that SSJ4 + God Ki is totally insignificant, but that its not the final or ultimate SSJ power-up. I actually believe that Vegeta's SSJBE is stronger than even Full Power SSJ4(Goku's power-up used to overwhelm Syn Shenron & battle Omega Shenron) combined with God Ki, but that's just my opinion.
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