Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

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TheMikado
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by TheMikado » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:35 pm

Majin Jator wrote:
WittyUsername wrote: His renewed relevance is precisely why him not helping out in the battle against the Saiyans has retroactively become a problem. At this point, are we just supposed to assume that he was simply too lazy to prepare for the Saiyans?


Raditz and all the later antagonists could have killed Roshi with one punch, while the ToP was a tournament where killing was forbidden. Don't get me wrong, his inclusion made little sense (not saying it wasn't enjoyable), but I don't believe it created a problem retroactively.
It would have been fine if it wasn’t for the Mafuba coming back.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Kuwabara » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:52 pm

KBABZ wrote: I mean they were nobodies in the grand scheme of things, but to our heroes they were the greatest threats they had ever faced by an incredibly wide margin and were more than capable of wiping out everything on the planet.
The point I'm making is that the situations were totally different. It was Vegeta and Nappa vs. Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chaozu, and Yajirobe too if you want to count him. Sure, Roshi had seen Goku forced to death because of Raditz, so I could see trepidation on that front... But he also knew Goku would come back to everyone else's aid. He had a whole year to think about it and ultimately felt outclassed at the time, but he also had faith in Goku, in the others, and in the overall outcome. Goku had faith as well, it's a prevailing theme throughout the arc. That's what Gohan bouncing back the Genki Dama and Krillin listening to Goku about letting Vegeta go was all about.

With the Tournament of Power, Universe 7 had a seemingly impossible situation foisted upon them. Ten strong fighters were needed in two days... Goku needed all hands on deck, and Roshi was right there with Tenshinhan. Now or never. Not only that, but Roshi literally agreed to go because of a lie about prize money. Given the desperate circumstances, I don't see why Roshi's inclusion is so hard to accept. Part of me wonders how Buu or even Yamcha would have been in his place, but oh well!
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by omaro34 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:46 am

ABED wrote:Because he was WELL past his prime and would not have been able to help even if he did train. That's one of the reasons Muten Roshi's renewed relevance bugs me.
Just wait till you get to the last arc of Super lol.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Kuwabara » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:42 pm

omaro34 wrote:Just wait till you get to the last arc of Super lol.
What is there to talk about? His inclusion makes for a great scene during the Tournament of Power, and nothing he does reaches the absurd levels of something like 17 going blow for blow with Super Saiyan Blue Goku. People act like Roshi one-shots Jiren or something.
This is the episode of when Gokuh enrages himself after Freezer talk shit about Kuririn

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Waluigiman » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:20 am

Because at that time Toriyama was not on his favor in making him stronger or relevant. In-universe this could be what motivated him into secretly training and the reason he didn't join was because he was easily outclassed by the seemingly stronger enemies or couldn't do it because he was either far away or killed by Majin Buu. He could had least taught anyone the mafuba or his other tricks.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Super Sonic » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:33 pm

Waluigiman wrote:Because at that time Toriyama was not on his favor in making him stronger or relevant. In-universe this could be what motivated him into secretly training and the reason he didn't join was because he was easily outclassed by the seemingly stronger enemies or couldn't do it because he was either far away or killed by Majin Buu. He could had least taught anyone the mafuba or his other tricks.
Not exactly good as outside of Kami possessing Shen, using the Mafuba is fatal for the caster.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:42 am

Muten Roshi hadn't discovered the internet yet.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Fizzer » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:13 am

Didn't Roshi mention feeling left out when Kami didn't send for him to train at the lookout? Yeah, he'd retired and was outclassed by the others (not sure if that includes Yajirobe and Chaozu at that point) but had Kami requested him he would have stepped up to the mark anyway. He wasn't sent for, which sat with the decision he'd already made to step down.

Of course if this was modern DB he'd have been involved, but modern DB has made a great number of errors. I overlook them, because it's DB and I love it anyway, but I mean, why not bring Roshi back as the team coach or something?

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Green_Goblin » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:24 pm

Because back in the ORIGINAL Dragon Ball run (DB -> DBZ -> DBGT) the manga and anime staff knew Roshi was out of the young cast members' league, he was surpaassed by the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai and was useless in the King Piccolo Saga, so he was in no condition to be getting his limits stretched and start showing up to face foes on the universal level. The EXTENT of his power was known, so he didn't even bothered to train for the Saiyans alone as he "allegedly" did before and in Super.

The preperations for Resurrection 'F' and by-proxy for Super (was emerging back at the same time) caused Toriyama to reconsider Roshi as a possible Z-Fighter to be promoted to the frontlines by his experience rather than sheer power level. However this gimmick was at the expense of ORIGINAL MEMBERS STRONGER THAN HIM, Yamcha and Chiaotzu, and was blown in the Tournament of Power (BOTH anime and manga) WAY BEYOND ANY LOGICAL EXCUSE.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Majin Jator » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:17 pm

Super Sonic wrote:
Waluigiman wrote:Because at that time Toriyama was not on his favor in making him stronger or relevant. In-universe this could be what motivated him into secretly training and the reason he didn't join was because he was easily outclassed by the seemingly stronger enemies or couldn't do it because he was either far away or killed by Majin Buu. He could had least taught anyone the mafuba or his other tricks.
Not exactly good as outside of Kami possessing Shen, using the Mafuba is fatal for the caster.
Ten Shin Han survived when he was much weaker than now; I won't have raised an eyebrow if he had been the one casting it thrice. I would have really preferred if he or Krillin had played the role of the underdog taking out tricky opponents.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Ssjcell » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:06 pm

It's obvious roshi already died and the namekians dragonballs hadn't been discovered , look roshi was retired and probably scared as hell of the two Saiyans approaching Earth. He didnt want to die the only two others that had previously died were Kuririn and chaotzu. Kuririn was one of the most talented fighters available and chaotzu had advanced mental capacities that potentially could have proved helpful in the fight. Roshi simply put was not an asset so he wasn't even in the discussion why not debate if crane hermit or tao could have helped while we're at it? At this point it's worth noting yamcha would have been a better fit in the top than roshi ...

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by funrush » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:32 am

He wasn't invited to Kami's Lookout. I guess he could've trained by himself, but this is the man who took 50 years to learn the Kamehameha when it took Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha way less than that.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:20 am

funrush wrote:He wasn't invited to Kami's Lookout. I guess he could've trained by himself, but this is the man who took 50 years to learn the Kamehameha when it took Goku, Krillin, and Yamcha way less than that.
Not that I disagree, but it should be worth noting that Roshi invented the move pretty much by himself in a world where Ki attacks aren't the norm for most people, outside of the Dodon Pa. Goku and co. could learn it entirely by Roshi's example of having already perfected the move.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Wizard Sesame » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:27 am

Majin Jator wrote: Ten Shin Han survived when he was much weaker than now; I won't have raised an eyebrow if he had been the one casting it thrice. I would have really preferred if he or Krillin had played the role of the underdog taking out tricky opponents.
Tenshinhan only used the Mafuba in the anime; he never used it in the manga.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by TheZFighter » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:22 pm

He'd been "retired" a number of years by this point.

This thread makes me think of the second DBZ movie where Roshi sees some action. That was good.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by Lionel » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:26 am

The anime does briefly play with the idea of the older hermetic generation improving themselves when Tao Pai Pai decided to climb Karin's Tower. How old was he at the time? 291 years old?

If you choose to acknowledge that admittedly non-canonical precedent then Roshi improving by being allowed to visit Kami's palace doesn't sound impossible. Past that, I don't see why Roshi couldn't have been allowed to use his hypnosis or even the Thunder Shock Surprise to help out. One of those has to do with inducing sleep while the other transmits electrical impulses or something (according to the Daizenshuu). The fact that Tenshinhan and Piccolo knew the Mafuba would have rendered Roshi's contribution in that department unnecessary. In fact, he probably would have turned out as a liability since he'd already been resurrected by Shenron back at the end of the Daimaou arc. They would have had to go to Namek just to resurrect Roshi if decided to use the Mafuba. Overall though, I think he could have had a part to play with his techniques.

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by shadowfox87 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:18 am

The funny thing is that Roshi hasn't even learned the Bukujutsu (flying) which baby Pan has. He probably was simply to lazy to help with the fight against the Saiyans. In the ToP, he was handpicked, so he was motivated to train and not be a total waste. So he tried to think of strategies that would help ring out opponents or trap them like the Mafuba.
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:30 am

shadowfox87 wrote:The funny thing is that Roshi hasn't even learned the Bukujutsu (flying) which baby Pan has.
What are you talking about? He has Baby Gamera to help him fly!

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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:11 pm

Because he's a neglectful pos who would rather look at aerobics videos than use his full power to save the world?
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Re: Why didn't Roshi train to prepare for the Saiyans?

Post by dragon boss z » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:30 am

KBABZ wrote:
ABED wrote:He's not getting any older, but he's not young either.
Sometimes I wonder if he really did drink from the Fountain of Youth. Or is that just a Dub/ViZ thing?
I believe the original line is he had a immortal phoenix that gave him enternal youth but his "immortal" phoenix died from chocking on bird seed or something.
Green_Goblin wrote:Because back in the ORIGINAL Dragon Ball run (DB -> DBZ -> DBGT) the manga and anime staff knew Roshi was out of the young cast members' league, he was surpaassed by the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai and was useless in the King Piccolo Saga, so he was in no condition to be getting his limits stretched and start showing up to face foes on the universal level.
I wouldn't say 22nd Tien truly surpassed him yet. Roshi did not use his full power while fighting him. Roshi just realized Tien was good enough to where there was no point for him to continue as the guy who will keep Goku from winning. And as for the king Piccolo saga, he did almost beat Piccolo with the Mafuba but failed due to plot. But I agree Roshi dealing with anything beyond saiyan saga level is too much. If Roshi could fight some Frieza soldiers after over a decade of secret training I would say fare enough, but his showings in the ToP in both the anime and manga were too much. He really shouldn't have been their in the first place, I would have rather had Buu. Krillin and Tien didn't have much business being their either though, Goten and Trunks would have made more sense as well allowing them to fuse to Gotenks. Having ssj3 Gotenks and Buu instead of 3 humans would have made much more sense, and it's not like humans wouldn't represent U7, as 17 and 18 are both technically humans.

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