I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

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I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Green_Goblin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:06 pm

10 years ago when the "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!" was released I was expecting a Scouter reading scene/s, since there were scouters around... Even if not offiicial "Full Power" readings like in the old DBZ days, why not use them like back in the good days? But we only got dull scenes of Goku and Trunks and Goten through the scouters of Tarble and of Abo/Cado without any reading... I really miss those tidbits of numbers... If I was directing that OVA I'd have Tarble reading Goku's low battle power as "8" and also have Abo and Cado read the Z-Fighters/Dragon Team's suppressed power levels upon seeing them for the first time (I'm not listing the female characters not as a chauvinistic behavior but since they were in the back and didn't seemed like they're into stepping up and fight, so the brothers dou may have figured that they're not their rivals):
Image
  • Piccolo: 211
    Krillin: 53
    Yamcha: 75
    Vegeta: 217
    Goku: 70
    Gohan: 130
    (I guess they already know Tarble and Gure's power levels from fighting them back then)
    Master Roshi: 143
And in the scene Trunks and Goten walk up towards Abo and Cado, I'd have them comment that each of them is "below a 6" instead of "low-fighting powers".


3.5 years ago when Resurrection 'F' was released I was expecting again they'll throw us fans some Scouter reading scene, as most of the 1000 Frieza soldiers and Sorbet had scouters... But again it was not the case.
They hadn't done so in the film, so I presumed it was due to the time limit of it, but even in their retelling in Dragon Ball Super we were spared from this delight.

I made a demo of what this scene would have looked like...
Image
  • Piccolo: 31,129
    Gohan: 37,085
    Krillin: 25,559
    Tien:26,126
    Roshi (thin/base):11,500 to 24,000 when buffed
    Jaco: 1,324 (just slightly above a Saibaman and yet still weaker than Raditz's 1,500 - I believe that on average each of these B-Rate Frieza Soldiers was at a 900)
    {IF Yamcha and Chiaotzu were to be included I'll have them at: 27,800 & 25,440 respectively}
Then when the finishing moves will kick in:
  • Gohan's tatata: 45,000 (anime retelling) / Gohan's anger blast against Frieza's mass of soldiers in the creek in the movie: 53,000
    Piccolo's Makankosappo: 51,240
    Krillin's Kienzan: 34,000 (movie) / Krillin's Scattered Blast: 28,000 (DBS retelling)
    Tien's Kikoho: 43,000
    Roshi's Kamehameha: 29,500
    {IF Yamcha and Chiaotzu were to be included I'll have them at: Wolf Fang Fist - 40,999 & Dodon Ray - 35,555 respectively}
And before you'll jump into "that's power levels, it's bullshit, it ruined the series" - That's how the Frieza Force fight, they can not sense ki and that's why they keep on using the Scouters. If such a device can read 1,300,000 (let alone the stupid usage of this number by logic and plot-wise) it means they can surly give us some "false"/suppressed reading of the Z-Fighters lowering themselves on their daily lives to almost original Dragon Ball series level. Or doing so while fighting Frieza's Army who are weaker than a Saibaman or Radditz (who was a Mid-Class soldier) despite facing enemies like Buu just "shortly" before who is in the BILLIONS for sure.
I didn't asked for Sorbet's reading Tagoma's power level due to obvious reason of it starting a power level chaos about previous sagas and further stories.

Hope we may get some scouter readings on the new "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" movie.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Ssjcell » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:09 am

Green_Goblin wrote:10 years ago when the "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!" was released I was expecting a Scouter reading scene/s, since there were scouters around... Even if not offiicial "Full Power" readings like in the old DBZ days, why not use them like back in the good days? But we only got dull scenes of Goku and Trunks and Goten through the scouters of Tarble and of Abo/Cado without any reading... I really miss those tidbits of numbers... If I was directing that OVA I'd have Tarble reading Goku's low battle power as "8" and also have Abo and Cado read the Z-Fighters/Dragon Team's suppressed power levels upon seeing them for the first time (I'm not listing the female characters not as a chauvinistic behavior but since they were in the back and didn't seemed like they're into stepping up and fight, so the brothers dou may have figured that they're not their rivals):
Image
  • Piccolo: 211
    Krillin: 53
    Yamcha: 75
    Vegeta: 217
    Goku: 70
    Gohan: 130
    (I guess they already know Tarble and Gure's power levels from fighting them back then)
    Master Roshi: 143
And in the scene Trunks and Goten walk up towards Abo and Cado, I'd have them comment that each of them is "below a 6" instead of "low-fighting powers".


3.5 years ago when Resurrection 'F' was released I was expecting again they'll throw us fans some Scouter reading scene, as most of the 1000 Frieza soldiers and Sorbet had scouters... But again it was not the case.
They hadn't done so in the film, so I presumed it was due to the time limit of it, but even in their retelling in Dragon Ball Super we were spared from this delight.

I made a demo of what this scene would have looked like...
Image
  • Piccolo: 31,129
    Gohan: 37,085
    Krillin: 25,559
    Tien:26,126
    Roshi (thin/base):11,500 to 24,000 when buffed
    Jaco: 1,324 (just slightly above a Saibaman and yet still weaker than Raditz's 1,500 - I believe that on average each of these B-Rate Frieza Soldiers was at a 900)
    {IF Yamcha and Chiaotzu were to be included I'll have them at: 27,800 & 25,440 respectively}
Then when the finishing moves will kick in:
  • Gohan's tatata: 45,000 (anime retelling) / Gohan's anger blast against Frieza's mass of soldiers in the creek in the movie: 53,000
    Piccolo's Makankosappo: 51,240
    Krillin's Kienzan: 34,000 (movie) / Krillin's Scattered Blast: 28,000 (DBS retelling)
    Tien's Kikoho: 43,000
    Roshi's Kamehameha: 29,500
    {IF Yamcha and Chiaotzu were to be included I'll have them at: Wolf Fang Fist - 40,999 & Dodon Ray - 35,555 respectively}
And before you'll jump into "that's power levels, it's bullshit, it ruined the series" - That's how the Frieza Force fight, they can not sense ki and that's why they keep on using the Scouters. If such a device can read 1,300,000 (let alone the stupid usage of this number by logic and plot-wise) it means they can surly give us some "false"/suppressed reading of the Z-Fighters lowering themselves on their daily lives to almost original Dragon Ball series level. Or doing so while fighting Frieza's Army who are weaker than a Saibaman or Radditz (who was a Mid-Class soldier) despite facing enemies like Buu just "shortly" before who is in the BILLIONS for sure.
I didn't asked for Sorbet's reading Tagoma's power level due to obvious reason of it starting a power level chaos about previous sagas and further stories.

Hope we may get some scouter readings on the new "Dragon Ball Super: Broly" movie.
Definitely a weird post that is inaccurate in almost every facet but ok

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:43 am

Ssjcell wrote:Definitely a weird post that is inaccurate in almost every facet but ok
This posts adds nothing of substance and is not reflective of our community guidelines.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by PFM18 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:49 pm

If they were to come out with power levels they would probably be wildly nonsensical. Even if they were consistent with the events of the story, you'd have a ton of people complaining because it didnt fit their head canon anyway.

At this point in the story too, we are beyond the trope of:

"look their power level is only X! I'm gonna beat their ass now!"
*loses miserably*
"What happened? Their power level is so low!"

Which would inevitably happen. And I personally don't think they would add much value anyway.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:53 pm

PFM18 wrote:If they were to come out with power levels they would probably be wildly nonsensical. Even if they were consistent with the events of the story, you'd have a ton of people complaining because it didnt fit their head canon anyway.

At this point in the story too, we are beyond the trope of:

"look their power level is only X! I'm gonna beat their ass now!"
*loses miserably*
"What happened? Their power level is so low!"

Which would inevitably happen. And I personally don't think they would add much value anyway.
Let's not forget the fiasco in Resurrection F where Freeza said that after his training his PL would be 3 million or something... so yeah, using PLs nowadays is probably a bad idea.
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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by PFM18 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:10 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
PFM18 wrote:If they were to come out with power levels they would probably be wildly nonsensical. Even if they were consistent with the events of the story, you'd have a ton of people complaining because it didnt fit their head canon anyway.

At this point in the story too, we are beyond the trope of:

"look their power level is only X! I'm gonna beat their ass now!"
*loses miserably*
"What happened? Their power level is so low!"

Which would inevitably happen. And I personally don't think they would add much value anyway.
Let's not forget the fiasco in Resurrection F where Freeza said that after his training his PL would be 3 million or something... so yeah, using PLs nowadays is probably a bad idea.
Luckily they fixed it in Dragon Ball Super. But yeah Freeza said he could reach 1.3 million, which would be a 2.6x boost which would still make him weaker than Android 18. If they were going to do it in the movie the numbers would be astronomically high to where it would look ridiculous. If they were to scan Base Vegeta with a scouter it should be in the trillions by now.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Green_Goblin » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:16 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
PFM18 wrote:If they were to come out with power levels they would probably be wildly nonsensical. Even if they were consistent with the events of the story, you'd have a ton of people complaining because it didnt fit their head canon anyway.

At this point in the story too, we are beyond the trope of:

"look their power level is only X! I'm gonna beat their ass now!"
*loses miserably*
"What happened? Their power level is so low!"

Which would inevitably happen. And I personally don't think they would add much value anyway.
Let's not forget the fiasco in Resurrection F where Freeza said that after his training his PL would be 3 million or something... so yeah, using PLs nowadays is probably a bad idea.
Luckily they fixed it in Dragon Ball Super. But yeah Freeza said he could reach 1.3 million, which would be a 2.6x boost which would still make him weaker than Android 18. If they were going to do it in the movie the numbers would be astronomically high to where it would look ridiculous. If they were to scan Base Vegeta with a scouter it should be in the trillions by now.
SIGH. This wasn't the purpose of the post. It wasn't about giving full/real power levels, just scouter readings of the main cast's suppressed power levels when EITHER calm (2008 OVA) OR fighting suppressed (RoF).

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by PFM18 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:18 pm

Green_Goblin wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Let's not forget the fiasco in Resurrection F where Freeza said that after his training his PL would be 3 million or something... so yeah, using PLs nowadays is probably a bad idea.
Luckily they fixed it in Dragon Ball Super. But yeah Freeza said he could reach 1.3 million, which would be a 2.6x boost which would still make him weaker than Android 18. If they were going to do it in the movie the numbers would be astronomically high to where it would look ridiculous. If they were to scan Base Vegeta with a scouter it should be in the trillions by now.
SIGH. This wasn't the purpose of the post. It wasn't about giving full/real power levels, just scouter readings of the main cast's suppressed power levels when EITHER calm (2008 OVA) OR fighting suppressed (RoF).
Well I don't see a point in that either. Like I just dont see a point in power levels existing at all in any capacity beyond the ones that already exist.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by KBABZ » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:14 pm

PFM18 wrote:Well I don't see a point in that either. Like I just dont see a point in power levels existing at all in any capacity beyond the ones that already exist.
Of course Power Levels were introduced at a point in the series to show how a lot of the mooks and larger villains relied far too much on hard numbers and math rather than actual battle experience and techniques to determine the outcome, thus why they were constantly flat-footed when people like Goku showed up that could work beyond that. Those types of opponents don't exist anymore so yeah Power Levels don't need to exist anymore in the story, and haven't since Trunks showed up.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Green_Goblin » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:26 pm

KBABZ wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Well I don't see a point in that either. Like I just dont see a point in power levels existing at all in any capacity beyond the ones that already exist.
Of course Power Levels were introduced at a point in the series to show how a lot of the mooks and larger villains relied far too much on hard numbers and math rather than actual battle experience and techniques to determine the outcome, thus why they were constantly flat-footed when people like Goku showed up that could work beyond that. Those types of opponents don't exist anymore so yeah Power Levels don't need to exist anymore in the story, and haven't since Trunks showed up.
I was missing them as they gave us the nostalgic sense of Z. To be fair DBZ and the franchise in itself only made it this far because of the success the concept of power levels had enjoyed since the 1990s and the rise of the internet. Check out any DB site and discussions from all times, it'll always will go to power levels/scaling eventually.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by KBABZ » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:12 am

Green_Goblin wrote:I was missing them as they gave us the nostalgic sense of Z. To be fair DBZ and the franchise in itself only made it this far because of the success the concept of power levels had enjoyed since the 1990s and the rise of the internet. Check out any DB site and discussions from all times, it'll always will go to power levels/scaling eventually.
I disagree, I find Power Levels to be a predominantly Western concept in terms of their sheer importance (and by Western I mean "outside of Japan"). Certainly it feels like VegettoEX tolerates their discussion here as an inevitability but would rather we spend our efforts having more meaningful and less predictable discussions.

I also take issue with the idea that Power Levels are the main reason why DBZ was a success. You're ignoring the fact that Dragon Ball was already incredibly popular in Japan before Raditz showed up on screen or on the page, and DBZ was popular enough to go through two major and lengthy arcs, multiple movies and a continuation show that make no mention of Power Levels whatsoever. Your example of checking out any DB site and discussion to me mainly relies on Western sources of discussion where Power Levels are a Big Deal simply because they were very prominent in the first third of DBZ and are a handy way of categorizing characters.

Ultimately Dragon Ball succeeds because it's a great action-adventure story with a unique sense of humour that is driven by its characters, and those facets permeate through the Power Level element. Dragon Ball "survived" the first four years of its life without them, and if the Saiyan and Frieza arcs hadn't introduced them, I'd wager that Dragon Ball would still be just as popular today. Power Levels supplement what already makes Dragon Ball a great read/watch, and the battles aren't memorable because of them so much as they do on what the kids nowadays call "get hype" moments. Things like Goku turning Super Saiyan, Roshi abandoning his match with Tien, Vegeta revealing he can go Super Saiyan Blue, Trunks one-shotting Frieza and his dad, Tao wiping the floor with Goku, Gohan becoming Super Saiyan 2, Goku achieving Ultra Instinct, Frieza revealing his fourth form, Daimao breaking Goku's limbs, and so on, obviously have a basis in one guy being stronger than the other guy, but mathematical equations are not what makes them great. What makes them great are the events themselves and the repercussions they have for the story, as well as all the story that happens before these moments. It's the switch-up of the hero overcoming their limitations and their opponents, or the villain revealing how horrifyingly outmatched the protagonists are, not that 9,001 is a higher number than 334.

If Power Levels were the primary reason Dragon Ball was popular, then it would not have survived the Cell arc for very long, let alone make it through the (by comparison) off the wall Buu arc, or make it through the first half of the overall story when they weren't even a thing yet. I get that seeing Power Levels would have been a cool nostalgic easter egg for that era of the franchise, but they are not explicitly needed to make the story good and popular, and thus they weren't an essential inclusion.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Green_Goblin » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:45 am

KBABZ wrote:If Power Levels were the primary reason Dragon Ball was popular, then it would not have survived the Cell arc for very long, let alone make it through the (by comparison) off the wall Buu arc, or make it through the first half of the overall story when they weren't even a thing yet. I get that seeing Power Levels would have been a cool nostalgic easter egg for that era of the franchise, but they are not explicitly needed to make the story good and popular, and thus they weren't an essential inclusion.
Allow me to remind you that Akira Toriyama himself went BACK to power levels and measuring when writing the Buu Saga, with Babidi's Kili meter. And that every Dragon Ball Z game till modern times had some touch up of the power levels issue: may it be the scouters that adorns the HP/KI stats in the Budokai series, the scouters in Legacy of Goku series, the scouters in Super Sonic Warriors, and the BP system back from the Japanese NES and SNES games in the 1990s, the V-Jump supplamentaries that gave us the power levels for Broly, Cooler & his Armored Squadron and Gogeta, the Tree of Might Pamphlet that covered the entire franchise till then, the VARIOUS of Carddass series of Battle Powers cards, and the late 2007 Scouter Battle Taikan Kamehameha TV Game that covered all the major characters from the franchise up until then in terms of power levels (GT included). Then you go to the 2010s and you see that the Japanese audience was also into this kind of shtick with Xeno Bardock's absurdly high power level as "The Masked Saiyan" being stated in Xenoverse's intro, Frieza referring to his 5,300,000,000 battle power in the "Real 4-D" movie, the 1.3 million line in Resurrection 'F' that was penned by Toriyama who mistoke his Namek time best at the Final Form to be 1.2 million instead of 120,000,000, and the tidbits of scouter reading scenes whenever you earn a new card in Dokkan Battle.

Image

Dragon Ball managed to survive IN and OUT of Japan due to the concept of power levels which increased it's popularity and framed it as something unique to it's audience. That's why other Shonen mangas and animes like Yu Yu Hakusho and Shaman King had followed this line of mathematical power rankings and copied it into their own universe/story.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by KBABZ » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:36 am

Green_Goblin wrote:Allow me to remind you that Akira Toriyama himself went BACK to power levels and measuring when writing the Buu Saga, with Babidi's Kili meter.
Kili's were used for like a few Chapters and ONLY as a way to measure how close Buu was to being resurrected. At no point were they used to compare one fighter to another in battle, and if it was truly Toriyama's attempt to bring Power Levels back into the story, it would have permeated the Buu saga a lot more than those few times Babidi mentioned them (let alone the fact that he made no attempt to show how Kili's scaled with Scouter readings).
Green_Goblin wrote:And that every Dragon Ball Z game till modern times had some touch up of the power levels issue: may it be the scouters that adorns the HP/KI stats in the Budokai series, the scouters in Legacy of Goku series, the scouters in Super Sonic Warriors, and the BP system back from the Japanese NES and SNES games in the 1990s, the V-Jump supplamentaries that gave us the power levels for Broly, Cooler & his Armored Squadron and Gogeta, the Tree of Might Pamphlet that covered the entire franchise till then, the VARIOUS of Carddass series of Battle Powers cards, and the late 2007 Scouter Battle Taikan Kamehameha TV Game that covered all the major characters from the franchise up until then in terms of power levels (GT included). Then you go to the 2010s and you see that the Japanese audience was also into this kind of shtick with Xeno Bardock's absurdly high power level as "The Masked Saiyan" being stated in Xenoverse's intro, Frieza referring to his 5,300,000,000 battle power in the "Real 4-D" movie, the 1.3 million line in Resurrection 'F' that was penned by Toriyama who mistoke his Namek time best at the Final Form to be 1.2 million instead of 120,000,000, and the tidbits of scouter reading scenes whenever you earn a new card in Dokkan Battle.
I take exception to video games and promo stuff because they're not there to tell the story, they're there to market the product, so they bank a lot more into "Ohhhh who is this masked powerful Saiyan man who looks a lot like Bardock?!?!??!" and garbage like that. Even the Daizenshuu to a certain extent fall into this because they're just a collection of information from the show itself from a time before the internet and DVDs.
Green_Goblin wrote:Dragon Ball managed to survive IN and OUT of Japan due to the concept of power levels which increased it's popularity and framed it as something unique to it's audience. That's why other Shonen mangas and animes like Yu Yu Hakusho and Shaman King had followed this line of mathematical power rankings and copied it into their own universe/story.
Again I completely disagree that Power Levels were crucial to the survival of the franchise once the manga was over, for the reasons I stated in my last post. I'm a fan of Dragon Ball because I like the world and characters, not because I like the numbers attributed to them.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Green_Goblin » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:06 am

KBABZ wrote:
Green_Goblin wrote:Allow me to remind you that Akira Toriyama himself went BACK to power levels and measuring when writing the Buu Saga, with Babidi's Kili meter.
Kili's were used for like a few Chapters and ONLY as a way to measure how close Buu was to being resurrected. At no point were they used to compare one fighter to another in battle, and if it was truly Toriyama's attempt to bring Power Levels back into the story, it would have permeated the Buu saga a lot more than those few times Babidi mentioned them (let alone the fact that he made no attempt to show how Kili's scaled with Scouter readings).
Before Killi, Toriyama had inserted the idea of the punching machine in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai to demonstrate Mr. Satan's power level in comparison to NORMAL Earthlings before we saw the Killi meter Yamu and Spopovitch were using there to measure Gohan.

To be fair, the usages ot the killi units were to measure one's ki level, Yakon had 800 while SSJ Goku had 3000 (base=60), in the anime Dabura who is about as strong as Super Perfect Cell says that "even 3000 killi is nothing compared to him". So it's just another plot device to set the notion of power scaling and rankings of characters. They did try to translate the Kili readings to Scouter readings in V-Jump where they claimed 1 killi = 50,000 BP, but it doesn't makes things logical just as the "1.3 million" line didn't.

*Edits in bold.
Last edited by Green_Goblin on Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by KBABZ » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:16 am

Green_Goblin wrote:Before Killi, Toriyama had inserted the idea of the punching machine in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai to demonstrate Mr. Satan's power level in comparison to NORMAL Earthlings before we saw the Killi meter Yamu and Spopovitch were using there to measure Gohan.
We didn't really need the punching machine to be told that; Mr. Satan in the Cell arc demonstrated quite clearly the gulf between the Z Fighters and normal people, to say nothing of things in the early Z anime like Nappa attacking jet planes. Or even long before that with Goku storming the Red Ribbon Army HQ, or people like Goku, Roshi and Tien making it to the TB finals over all the other cookie cutter fighter characters. The punching machine was used as a quick and comedic way to skip over the usual Preliminaries part of the Tournament and get straight to the Finals, which were always the highlights of the Budokais.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Green_Goblin » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:17 am

KBABZ wrote:
Green_Goblin wrote:Before Killi, Toriyama had inserted the idea of the punching machine in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai to demonstrate Mr. Satan's power level in comparison to NORMAL Earthlings before we saw the Killi meter Yamu and Spopovitch were using there to measure Gohan.
We didn't really need the punching machine to be told that; Mr. Satan in the Cell arc demonstrated quite clearly the gulf between the Z Fighters and normal people.
Some may disagree with you and will claim that Mr. Satan is even weaker than Goku from the Beginning of Dragon Ball who had a power level of 10. His fury attack at Van Zant and Smitty didn't even killed these guys and they were just common humans.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by KBABZ » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:20 am

Green_Goblin wrote:Some may disagree with you and will claim that Mr. Satan is even weaker than Goku from the Beginning of Dragon Ball who had a power level of 10. His fury attack at Van Zant and Smitty didn't even killed these guys and they were just common humans.
Satan is pretty talented at what he does and is the best of the best regarding "normal" people, and would be in the ranks of folks like Nam and Panput. Thus he would easily be able to defeat Kid Goku and Krillin before training with Roshi, and most likely Krillin afterwards. But by the time of the Cell Games Krillin and Tien have far surpassed any sort of ceiling thought impossible to breach by humans, thus leaving Satan in the dust. As for Smitty and Van Zant, Satan can be the strongest person in the world and know how to deliver a soft but still punishing blow, much in the same way Majin Vegeta can easily destroy the solar system and yet be capable of only knocking out Trunks with a single chop. Satan may have been enraged beyond belief but he had no intention of killing them.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Ssjcell » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:16 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Green_Goblin wrote:Some may disagree with you and will claim that Mr. Satan is even weaker than Goku from the Beginning of Dragon Ball who had a power level of 10. His fury attack at Van Zant and Smitty didn't even killed these guys and they were just common humans.
Satan is pretty talented at what he does and is the best of the best regarding "normal" people, and would be in the ranks of folks like Nam and Panput. Thus he would easily be able to defeat Kid Goku and Krillin before training with Roshi, and most likely Krillin afterwards. But by the time of the Cell Games Krillin and Tien have far surpassed any sort of ceiling thought impossible to breach by humans, thus leaving Satan in the dust. As for Smitty and Van Zant, Satan can be the strongest person in the world and know how to deliver a soft but still punishing blow, much in the same way Majin Vegeta can easily destroy the solar system and yet be capable of only knocking out Trunks with a single chop. Satan may have been enraged beyond belief but he had no intention of killing them.
I don't think so Goku can't tank bullets Mr satan can't plus panput can destroy a thick brick wall with an elbow idk if Mr satan is capable of such a feat

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by KBABZ » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:39 pm

Ssjcell wrote:I don't think so Goku can't tank bullets Mr satan can't plus panput can destroy a thick brick wall with an elbow idk if Mr satan is capable of such a feat
I don't think Mr. Satan could take bullets either, but Goku being able to I always attributed to Saiyan durability as explained much later on in the story. Mr. Satan is capable of great feats; he won the TB against a non-Majin Spopovich, for example, and logically would have had to defeat opponents of a similar level to Nam, Giran, Man-Wolf, Panput and King Chappa (who seem to be in the "appears regularly and are extraordinary fighters but not of the same league as Roshi" category) to make it to the finals in the first place.

The main thing holding him back is that he's firmly a gag character in a way that limits his power (sort of the opposite of how Arale is a gag character in a way that increases her power), so his always coming up short is part of being funny to the audience. Thus he's as strong as the wall-breaking Panput, and yet can only break 14 out of 15 tiles. Plus he has absolutely no knowledge or interest in ki control.

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Re: I really missed the Scouter readings in "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!" & "Resurrection 'F'"

Post by Ssjcell » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:58 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Ssjcell wrote:I don't think so Goku can't tank bullets Mr satan can't plus panput can destroy a thick brick wall with an elbow idk if Mr satan is capable of such a feat
I don't think Mr. Satan could take bullets either, but Goku being able to I always attributed to Saiyan durability as explained much later on in the story. Mr. Satan is capable of great feats; he won the TB against a non-Majin Spopovich, for example, and logically would have had to defeat opponents of a similar level to Nam, Giran, Man-Wolf, Panput and King Chappa (who seem to be in the "appears regularly and are extraordinary fighters but not of the same league as Roshi" category) to make it to the finals in the first place.

The main thing holding him back is that he's firmly a gag character in a way that limits his power (sort of the opposite of how Arale is a gag character in a way that increases her power), so his always coming up short is part of being funny to the audience. Thus he's as strong as the wall-breaking Panput, and yet can only break 14 out of 15 tiles. Plus he has absolutely no knowledge or interest in ki control.
The announcer said that the tourneys aren't the same that they used to be there for you he didnt face guys like Nom panput and other people like that the highest level he probably had to face was spopovich

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