Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

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Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Doctor. » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:37 pm

This obviously means no dead villains and no fusions. Gohan was stronger than Goku in the Boo arc, but 10 years have passed since then.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by CTAkuma » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:40 pm

Safe to say its Goku since he will always train and try to fight to get stronger, Vegeta maybe in second place

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:45 pm

Gohan is a slacker, so by EoZ he no longer is stronger than his father or Vegeta

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:53 pm

Doctor. wrote:This obviously means no dead villains and no fusions. Gohan was stronger than Goku in the Boo arc, but 10 years have passed since then.
Lol since when did you care about power scaling?

Obviously it is Goku. Gohan is not one to be vigorously training during peace times and when he has professional obligations to attend to and Gohan is really the only character that could compete with Goku. We know that Goten and Trunks haven't been training either so they aren't up there either. Goku would undoubtedly be the strongest when he should have been training seriously for the 10 years since the Buu arc.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by flashback0180 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:54 pm

EOZ i would assume its goku considering how nerf gohan gets if he doesn't train . if Berus didn't wake up we can assume gohan would take the same path , meaning he would be weak as his kid SSJ1 self by EOZ . He couldn't transform into ssj2 during ROF saga.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by OhHiRenan » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:53 pm

Given Gohan’s arc in the Boo arc, I think it’s safe to assume he remained the strongest character.
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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:20 pm

Gohan. Nothing indicates, at least in the original series, that Gohan lost his "Unlocked Potential" for. So my answer is Gohan.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Doctor. » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:21 pm

PFM18 wrote: Lol since when did you care about power scaling?
Since always. I've posted a ton in the strength thread and have done and redone multiple PL lists. Super's scaling is absolutely atrocious so it has soured my interest a bit, but the original series is still fun to argue about.
Obviously it is Goku. Gohan is not one to be vigorously training during peace times and when he has professional obligations to attend to and Gohan is really the only character that could compete with Goku. We know that Goten and Trunks haven't been training either so they aren't up there either. Goku would undoubtedly be the strongest when he should have been training seriously for the 10 years since the Buu arc.
Well obviously Gohan isn't interested in training, but the gap between him and Goku at the end of the Boo arc was enormous. I don't think Goku can improve that much when training for 7 years in the otherworld didn't even double his strength. Then again, he did well against a serious Oob but it's up in the air how much of Kid Boo's power he could use.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by ricky84 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:28 pm

Gohan is confirmed to have kept on training Post-Buu in the Daizenshuu and the GT Prefect Files, however Goku was still stated to be the strongest by the end of Z and this is shown in the start of GT.
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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:35 pm

Doctor. wrote:Since always. I've posted a ton in the strength thread and have done and redone multiple PL lists. Super's scaling is absolutely atrocious so it has soured my interest a bit, but the original series is still fun to argue about.
Sorry I just never saw much power scaling talk from you so I got the idea you weren't interested. Never saw any PL lists or anything like that. My bad.

Also, I disagree that Super's scaling is "absolutely atrocious." There's a couple instances that are nonsensical but not much more if any more than DBZ had. Coherent power level lists can fairly easily be made for DBS but that wouldn't be the case if it was actually that atrocious/inconsistent.
Well obviously Gohan isn't interested in training, but the gap between him and Goku at the end of the Boo arc was enormous. I don't think Goku can improve that much when training for 7 years in the otherworld didn't even double his strength. Then again, he did well against a serious Oob but it's up in the air how much of Kid Boo's power he could use.
I don't see it as being that large of a gap. I have it as a 12x difference on my PL list. As in:

Ultimate Gohan>SSJ3 Gotenks>SSJ Gotenks~SSJ3 Goku

I don't subscribe to the notion that Post ROSAT Base Gotenks>Pre ROSAT SSJ Gotenks~SSJ3 Goku. Which is a popular assertion that makes the gap between Gohan and Goku grow to be astronomical in size. So I see the gap as being smaller than some.

Also, Good Buu was scheduled to fight Goten in the first round and Goten complained about having to fight him in the first round and didn't seem to like his chances. Goku told him that it wouldn't be a problem if he had kept training. But even if Goten had continued training he shouldn't have caught his father. Obviously, SSJ isn't involved here. Hence, the way I see it:

EoZ Base Goku>hypothetical Base Goten that continued training>Good Buu>>>EoZ Base Goten

And obviously if Base Goku had surpassed Good Buu then his SSJ3 would be far stronger than Ultimate Gohan. And that's without even taking into account the fact that Gohan definitely got weaker. By the way, I don't buy into the premise that: EoZ Base Goku~Uub~Kid Buu.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:41 pm

Gohan, Goku & Vegeta trained their assess off for seven years straight and they were only sort of stronger than Cell Games Gohan in Base, SS1 and SS2 than him by the time they have their rematch. I really doubt they'd start getting massive gains in the proceeding 10 years to overcome the gap between themselves and Ultimate Gohan.
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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Doctor. » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:41 pm

PFM18 wrote:Also, I disagree that Super's scaling is "absolutely atrocious." There's a couple instances that are nonsensical but not much more if any more than DBZ had. Coherent power level lists can fairly easily be made for DBS but that wouldn't be the case if it was actually that atrocious/inconsistent.
Not when people can't even agree on something as basic and important as base Goku's strength.
I don't see it as being that large of a gap. I have it as a 12x difference on my PL list.
12x is a ridiculous gap. Characters rarely get that strong through rudimentary training during a timeskip. The only exception to that was Piccolo during the training for the androids.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Ssjcell » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:45 pm

It remains to be seen considering that there's so many characters in super that are extremely powerful . My guess would be Goku but Gohan could possibly usurp him in strength if he fuses god ki with his ultimate state. Without super it's impied to be Gohan

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by CTAkuma » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:47 pm

Doctor. wrote:Not when people can't even agree on something as basic and important as base Goku's strength.
I mean it was literally stated in the series that Goku had absorbed the power of SSG into his base. Characters heavily supressing themselves to the point of equalization seems to be a foreign concept to some, that's why two base theory exists
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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:49 pm

CTAkuma wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Not when people can't even agree on something as basic and important as base Goku's strength.
I mean it was literally stated in the series that Goku has absorbed power of SSG into his base. Characters heavily supressing themselves to the point of equalization seems to be a foreign concept to some, that's why two base theory exists
Not to make this about Super but the absorption thing has clearly been retconned away by the fact SSGod is just another transformation you can flip on and off which severely puts into question what Base Goku's power is supposed to be now.
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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:51 pm

Doctor. wrote:This obviously means no dead villains and no fusions. Gohan was stronger than Goku in the Boo arc, but 10 years have passed since then.
Gohan. 10 years of mountain training does jack in the context of the original story, and it wasn't until the new movies that Toei/Toriyama decided that a few years of not training can drop your power to a tiny, tiny fraction of your former self. Remember that in the context of the original story, Piccolo Daimao didn't train for hundreds of years and was only moderately weaker than he was in his prime, and Gohan didn't train for 7 years between Cell and Buu yet was still a peer to Goku and Vegeta, who had done nothing but train.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:56 pm

CTAkuma wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Not when people can't even agree on something as basic and important as base Goku's strength.
I mean it was literally stated in the series that Goku had absorbed the power of SSG into his base. Characters heavily supressing themselves to the point of equalization seems to be a foreign concept to some, that's why two base theory exists
the phrasing "absorbed into base" was never used and a specific form was never stated. in fact, the word "absorbed" was never even used.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by CTAkuma » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:05 pm

ekrolo2 wrote: what Base Goku's power is supposed to be now.
His base power is SSG, Beerus said he was stronger than before after SSG went out and Goku went SS. This means that essentially Goku's base got heavily upgraded
PFM18 wrote:the phrasing "absorbed into base" was never used and a specific form was never stated. in fact, the word "absorbed" was never even used.
It's what he practically did though

Generally speaking Goku absorbed the POWER of SSG into his base, but he doesn't have God Ki in base or Super Saiyan, so SSG still is superior through God Ki amplification to the Super Saiyan forms

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by prince212 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:30 pm

The way I interpret the original series ending is goku being the strongest and bored because of that .
For that reason he took the guy with more potential to train him and have a good rival to fight with in the future .
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Cetra » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:49 pm

I never was a fan of that whole Gohan thing, especially as Super pretty much confirmed what I already thought of all the time. Kaiouken. It does not matter if Goku would die from using Kaiouken in SSJ3 within 3 seconds (or no matter how short), just because it is no as good to combine as with SSJB. When he has more power for that time, he has more power. If we do not count that, I am not so sure. Gohan definitely has this great power to utilize without problems. But Goku is Goku and trains all the time.
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