Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

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Perfectionist-Cell
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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Perfectionist-Cell » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:09 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:Goku and Vegeta had reached the point of diminishing gains especially when it came to base form. Just cause they trained for 7 years doesn't mean they became way stronger.

It took a burst of FP ssj2 goku for vegeta to say he was stronger than cell games gohan

Even piccolo said majin vegeta "might even be stronger than gohan from back then"

There's enough evidence to suggest a very small gap.

That also ties in with why ssg level of power was something goku couldn't even comprehend or reach on his own because he had slowed down so much. He could have trained for the remaining 4 decades of his life and not come close to even super vegito tier

Yet GT Goku surpassed Super Vegito in power by simply training with Uub in 5 years but is slightly stronger than Gohan in 7? The Gap between Vegito and Goku and Gohan and Goku is way bigger.

The statements don't match the training. Vegeta and Goku trained harder than they did in the Android saga yet got less gains ? That goes against all types of nature. As long as your training is strenuous you will keep on improving regardless if you reach some sort of cap and I thought Goku had no limits since that is what most dragon ball fans agree on.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:12 pm

Perfectionist-Cell wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:Goku and Vegeta had reached the point of diminishing gains especially when it came to base form. Just cause they trained for 7 years doesn't mean they became way stronger.

It took a burst of FP ssj2 goku for vegeta to say he was stronger than cell games gohan

Even piccolo said majin vegeta "might even be stronger than gohan from back then"

There's enough evidence to suggest a very small gap.

That also ties in with why ssg level of power was something goku couldn't even comprehend or reach on his own because he had slowed down so much. He could have trained for the remaining 4 decades of his life and not come close to even super vegito tier

Yet GT Goku surpassed Super Vegito in power by simply training with Uub in 5 years but is slightly stronger than Gohan in 7? The Gap between Vegito and Goku and Gohan and Goku is way bigger.

The statements don't match the training. Vegeta and Goku trained harder than they did in the Android saga yet got less gains ? That goes against all types of nature. As long as your training is strenuous you will keep on improving regardless if you reach some sort of cap and I thought Goku had no limits since that is what most dragon ball fans agree on.

GT and super are NOT the original series. Toriyama depicted in the Buu saga that these guys had hit diminishing gains. Training hard =/= massive gains.

Piccolo trains a lot and didn't get massively more powerful from Cell arc to Boo Arc

Tien trains all the time and is the weakest human

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Perfectionist-Cell » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:42 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
Perfectionist-Cell wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:Goku and Vegeta had reached the point of diminishing gains especially when it came to base form. Just cause they trained for 7 years doesn't mean they became way stronger.

It took a burst of FP ssj2 goku for vegeta to say he was stronger than cell games gohan

Even piccolo said majin vegeta "might even be stronger than gohan from back then"

There's enough evidence to suggest a very small gap.

That also ties in with why ssg level of power was something goku couldn't even comprehend or reach on his own because he had slowed down so much. He could have trained for the remaining 4 decades of his life and not come close to even super vegito tier

Yet GT Goku surpassed Super Vegito in power by simply training with Uub in 5 years but is slightly stronger than Gohan in 7? The Gap between Vegito and Goku and Gohan and Goku is way bigger.

The statements don't match the training. Vegeta and Goku trained harder than they did in the Android saga yet got less gains ? That goes against all types of nature. As long as your training is strenuous you will keep on improving regardless if you reach some sort of cap and I thought Goku had no limits since that is what most dragon ball fans agree on.

GT and super are NOT the original series. Toriyama depicted in the Buu saga that these guys had hit diminishing gains. Training hard =/= massive gains.

Piccolo trains a lot and didn't get massively more powerful from Cell arc to Boo Arc

Tien trains all the time and is the weakest human
Over the course of many sagas Piccolo and Tien have become more and more useless overtime because of plot. Tien is the strongest human I will argue this but that's for another time. Tien puts in more work than Krillin and gets owned hard for literally no reason. Same with Piccolo dude puts in more work than Gohan but who gets more shine? People like Gohan and Krillin than they do Piccolo and Tien. Dragonball has no real logic sometimes and just does stupid things. If you train hard you will see results no matter who you are, this is a fact.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:42 pm

Toriyama already answered that. It was months after the manga serialization was finished. In case you were wondering, it’s Goku.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Kaboom » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:42 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:Toriyama already answered that. It was months after the manga serialization was finished. In case you were wondering, it’s Goku.
Technically, the in-quotes direct answer from Toriyama only says he thinks Goku's the coolest. The part about him being "the always pure strongest in the universe," whatever that's supposed to mean, is an embellishment from the article's writer.
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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:46 pm

Kaboom wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:Toriyama already answered that. It was months after the manga serialization was finished. In case you were wondering, it’s Goku.
Technically, the in-quotes direct answer from Toriyama only says he thinks Goku's the coolest. The part about him being "the always pure strongest in the universe," whatever that's supposed to mean, is an embellishment from the article's writer.
After you said, I just noted the quotation marks ends with “I think it’s Goku”. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by PFM18 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:04 pm

Perfectionist-Cell wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:Goku and Vegeta had reached the point of diminishing gains especially when it came to base form. Just cause they trained for 7 years doesn't mean they became way stronger.

It took a burst of FP ssj2 goku for vegeta to say he was stronger than cell games gohan

Even piccolo said majin vegeta "might even be stronger than gohan from back then"

There's enough evidence to suggest a very small gap.

That also ties in with why ssg level of power was something goku couldn't even comprehend or reach on his own because he had slowed down so much. He could have trained for the remaining 4 decades of his life and not come close to even super vegito tier

Yet GT Goku surpassed Super Vegito in power by simply training with Uub in 5 years but is slightly stronger than Gohan in 7? The Gap between Vegito and Goku and Gohan and Goku is way bigger.

The statements don't match the training. Vegeta and Goku trained harder than they did in the Android saga yet got less gains ? That goes against all types of nature. As long as your training is strenuous you will keep on improving regardless if you reach some sort of cap and I thought Goku had no limits since that is what most dragon ball fans agree on.
Well that's GT's problem. That is not something that refutes the obvious diminishing returns that exist in the original series because the sequel fucked up that clear trend that was established previously. It fits with what we see with Goku saying he could never reach SSG level on his own because his gains had begun to screech to a halt.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by Perfectionist-Cell » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:30 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Perfectionist-Cell wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:Goku and Vegeta had reached the point of diminishing gains especially when it came to base form. Just cause they trained for 7 years doesn't mean they became way stronger.

It took a burst of FP ssj2 goku for vegeta to say he was stronger than cell games gohan

Even piccolo said majin vegeta "might even be stronger than gohan from back then"

There's enough evidence to suggest a very small gap.

That also ties in with why ssg level of power was something goku couldn't even comprehend or reach on his own because he had slowed down so much. He could have trained for the remaining 4 decades of his life and not come close to even super vegito tier

Yet GT Goku surpassed Super Vegito in power by simply training with Uub in 5 years but is slightly stronger than Gohan in 7? The Gap between Vegito and Goku and Gohan and Goku is way bigger.

The statements don't match the training. Vegeta and Goku trained harder than they did in the Android saga yet got less gains ? That goes against all types of nature. As long as your training is strenuous you will keep on improving regardless if you reach some sort of cap and I thought Goku had no limits since that is what most dragon ball fans agree on.
Well that's GT's problem. That is not something that refutes the obvious diminishing returns that exist in the original series because the sequel fucked up that clear trend that was established previously. It fits with what we see with Goku saying he could never reach SSG level on his own because his gains had begun to screech to a halt.
Goku is that same guy who said potara won't beat Beerus and ssg would actually have a chance at beating him yet we all know how that went. Everything Goku says isn't always accurate.

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by PFM18 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:17 am

Perfectionist-Cell wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Perfectionist-Cell wrote:

Yet GT Goku surpassed Super Vegito in power by simply training with Uub in 5 years but is slightly stronger than Gohan in 7? The Gap between Vegito and Goku and Gohan and Goku is way bigger.

The statements don't match the training. Vegeta and Goku trained harder than they did in the Android saga yet got less gains ? That goes against all types of nature. As long as your training is strenuous you will keep on improving regardless if you reach some sort of cap and I thought Goku had no limits since that is what most dragon ball fans agree on.
Well that's GT's problem. That is not something that refutes the obvious diminishing returns that exist in the original series because the sequel fucked up that clear trend that was established previously. It fits with what we see with Goku saying he could never reach SSG level on his own because his gains had begun to screech to a halt.
Goku is that same guy who said potara won't beat Beerus and ssg would actually have a chance at beating him yet we all know how that went. Everything Goku says isn't always accurate.
Goku thought that potara wouldn't beat Beerus....and he was right

Goku thought SSG gave him the best chance and was confident given the level of suppression Beerus was at. Neither of these are examples of Goku being inaccurate

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Re: Who is the strongest (living) character at the end of the original series?

Post by zarmack » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:59 pm

There is no mention of diminishing returns from training in the original manga nor the Daizenshuu. Saiyans are supposed to have no limits so the concept of diminishing returns from training is stupid.

Either way, the Daizenshuu implied that both Goku and Vegeta had surpassed Gohan (who was much stronger than both of the them in the Buu arc and continued to train afterwards) by the end of Z.

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