What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by zarmack » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Champa The Destroyer wrote:There was a theory that floated around when BOG first came out that Beerus could only defeat people because of his God Ki, and that without the advantage of God Ki, is about as powerful as Cell Arc Android 18....
I remember that nonsense lol. Its another example the "God ki makes you stronger" myth that many people still believe.

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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:21 pm

zarmack wrote:
Champa The Destroyer wrote:There was a theory that floated around when BOG first came out that Beerus could only defeat people because of his God Ki, and that without the advantage of God Ki, is about as powerful as Cell Arc Android 18....
I remember that nonsense lol. Its another example the "God ki makes you stronger" myth that many people still believe.
Yeah and its one reason that people believe SSJB is more powerful than SSJ4.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:33 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Champa The Destroyer wrote:There was a theory that floated around when BOG first came out that Beerus could only defeat people because of his God Ki, and that without the advantage of God Ki, is about as powerful as Cell Arc Android 18....
I remember that nonsense lol. Its another example the "God ki makes you stronger" myth that many people still believe.
Yeah and its one reason that people believe SSJB is more powerful than SSJ4.
I still think that Blue is at least slightly stronger than 4.

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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:40 pm

Champa The Destroyer wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
zarmack wrote:
I remember that nonsense lol. Its another example the "God ki makes you stronger" myth that many people still believe.
Yeah and its one reason that people believe SSJB is more powerful than SSJ4.
I still think that Blue is at least slightly stronger than 4.
I believe they are equal in power.
Hulk is strongest one there is. -Incredible Hulk

In the name of the mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I will never again bow to your charge! But I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking to Unicron controlled Megatron.

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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by zarmack » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:45 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
Champa The Destroyer wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
Yeah and its one reason that people believe SSJB is more powerful than SSJ4.
I still think that Blue is at least slightly stronger than 4.
I believe they are equal in power.
Didn't the promo guides for the BoG movie (2013) state that SSG was the strongest Saiyan transformation ever?

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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:58 pm

zarmack wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
Champa The Destroyer wrote:
I still think that Blue is at least slightly stronger than 4.
I believe they are equal in power.
Didn't the promo guides for the BoG movie (2013) state that SSG was the strongest Saiyan transformation ever?
I don't know. But I wouldn't believe that even if I was paid to.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:27 am

zarmack wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
Champa The Destroyer wrote:
I still think that Blue is at least slightly stronger than 4.
I believe they are equal in power.
Didn't the promo guides for the BoG movie (2013) state that SSG was the strongest Saiyan transformation ever?
Even if they did they obviously didn't even think about SSJ4.
Every next form is stronger than previous so it just means SSJG is stronger than SSJ3. It's the classic "stronger than ever" thing, but GT is anime-only sequel + it takes place after BoG anyway so taking SSJ4 into this statement is very unlikely. With UI it was also said it's the strongest form ever despite it not being needed if we assume SSJ4 was already surpassed by either SSJG or Blue, both weaker than UI. Otherwise it would mean SSJ4 was still the strongest form until UI which would contradict BoG statement you mentioned.

We never had any official statements but media like DBH seem to make SSJ4 and SSJ Blue about equal.
Bandai stickers put SSJ4 slightly below SSJ Blue but i wouldn't rely on that considering Broly LSSJ (original one) is equal to Baby Vegeta and stronger than Goku Black lol.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:45 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
zarmack wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
I believe they are equal in power.
Didn't the promo guides for the BoG movie (2013) state that SSG was the strongest Saiyan transformation ever?
Even if they did they obviously didn't even think about SSJ4.
Every next form is stronger than previous so it just means SSJG is stronger than SSJ3. It's the classic "stronger than ever" thing, but GT is anime-only sequel + it takes place after BoG anyway so taking SSJ4 into this statement is very unlikely. With UI it was also said it's the strongest form ever despite it not being needed if we assume SSJ4 was already surpassed by either SSJG or Blue, both weaker than UI. Otherwise it would mean SSJ4 was still the strongest form until UI which would contradict BoG statement you mentioned.

We never had any official statements but media like DBH seem to make SSJ4 and SSJ Blue about equal.
Bandai stickers put SSJ4 slightly below SSJ Blue but i wouldn't rely on that considering Broly LSSJ (original one) is equal to Baby Vegeta and stronger than Goku Black lol.
I agree they did not think about SSJ4
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:04 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:We never had any official statements but media like DBH seem to make SSJ4 and SSJ Blue about equal.
You are forgetting something very important though: the Goku using Super Saiyan 4 comes from a point after the events of Dragon Ball GT (after AGE 790), while Goku using Ultra Instinct comes from a point after Universe Survival saga (AGE 780, and due to the short timeskip, I believe Prison Planet saga takes place after Dragon Ball Super Broly movie too).

That obviously means that Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are not actually equal if we use Goku from Baby Vegeta saga (as it is the closest saga to Universe Survival saga/Prison Planet saga), we must only compare characters from same period, not very different/far away from each other. Also, Xeno Goku himself already stated to be below Goku in the arcade, so there isn't really much to talk about anymore.


By the way, Gotenks says something about Super Saiyan God being stronger than Super Saiyan 4 in XV2.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:12 pm

Grimlock wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:We never had any official statements but media like DBH seem to make SSJ4 and SSJ Blue about equal.
You are forgetting something very important though: the Goku using Super Saiyan 4 comes from a point after the events of Dragon Ball GT (after AGE 790), while Goku using Ultra Instinct comes from a point after Universe Survival saga (AGE 780, and due to the short timeskip, I believe Prison Planet saga takes place after Dragon Ball Super Broly movie too).

That obviously means that Super Saiyan 4 and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are not actually equal if we use Goku from Baby Vegeta saga (as it is the closest saga to Universe Survival saga/Prison Planet saga), we must only compare characters from same period, not very different/far away from each other. Also, Xeno Goku himself already stated to be below Goku in the arcade, so there isn't really much to talk about anymore.


By the way, Gotenks says something about Super Saiyan God being stronger than Super Saiyan 4 in XV2.
But the anime and manga of the arcade game place them as equal. So you can't ignore that either.
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In the name of the mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I will never again bow to your charge! But I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking to Unicron controlled Megatron.

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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:43 pm

I'm not ignoring anything though, and what you said is debatable. Firstly because their fight doesn't even have a definitive conclusion in both media and secondly because both anime and manga are not the main thing here, it is the arcade. Whatever the arcade states, it is more valid than whatever manga or anime states.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:28 pm

Grimlock wrote:I'm not ignoring anything though, and what you said is debatable. Firstly because their fight doesn't even have a definitive conclusion in both media and secondly because both anime and manga are not the main thing here, it is the arcade. Whatever the arcade states, it is more valid than whatever manga or anime states.
I'd say the matter of which is more valid the arcade or the anime or manga is debatable.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:25 pm

No, it is a definitive thing already. Just like Toei's original work (filler stuff) will never matter more than Toriyama's work. The anime is to the manga just like Heroes anime/manga is to Heroes arcade, in both cases the latter is the source, therefore the "main continuity". It's not actually debatable.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:03 pm

Yes it is. Its definitely debatable. Especially since there is no official set level of canon. Also the arcade is not a higher 'canon' than the DBH anime and manga.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:31 pm

I'm not talking about canon, as this franchise does not have one. But there is some sort of "level of importance" (lack of a better term), again, one does not simply put Garlic Junior saga or the movies that take place in another dimension and all their own logic and established stuff above a saga from the manga. All these materials are created basing on something else, the source, the "main thing", and this is exactly what happens/the case to/with Heroes and its different continuities.

You cannot say that the androids were created by doctor Frappe (according to Toei) when the "source" says it was doctor Maki Gero. The latter is the real deal because it was established in the "source", and the "source" of Heroes is the arcade, released in 2010, way before someone could have thought about creating an anime or a manga for the game (in which both are based on something from the arcade game, they are not original material for original story/content). Well, since this is a logical issue, I'm not prolonging this, it should be obvious what I'm stating.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:45 pm

Grimlock wrote:I'm not talking about canon, as this franchise does not have one. But there is some sort of "level of importance" (lack of a better term), again, one does not simply put Garlic Junior saga or the movies that take place in another dimension and all their own logic and established stuff above a saga from the manga. All these materials are created basing on something else, the source, the "main thing", and this is exactly what happens/the case to/with Heroes and its different continuities.

The one who created androids was doctor Maki Gero, not doctor Frappe (according to Toei). The former is the real deal because it was established in the "source", and the "source" of Heroes is the arcade, released in 2010, way before someone could have thought about creating an anime or a manga for the game (in which both are based on something from the arcade game, they are not original material for original story/content). Well, since this is a logical issue, I'm not prolonging this, it should be obvious what I'm stating.
Well I strongly disagree with you. Also pretty sure the anime and manga were retconning the power issues. Since people didn't like the outcome. Regardless of what you say, the anime cannot simply be disregarded because it comes after the arcade. After all the anime and manga of the main storyline is full of retcons and other things so its a moot point.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:00 pm

What!? What people!? Do you really think that the Japanese players care about power level!? :lol: Hell, I have never seen a single comment on that department whenever Heroes updates and new missions/stories are released. No, there is no "retconning the power level" in Heroes, this doesn't even matter in the slightest. All the differences occur because the manga is made by someone else with their own interpretation/spin on it, the same goes for anime (Toei). Never have I seen people complaining about that random issue that is "power level", except, of course, Western people who unfortunately care about this silly thing.

You seem to be very fan of Super Saiyan 4 and does not want it to be a weak (or weaker than any other) form, I get that, but c'mon... Try to be reasonable.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:04 pm

Grimlock wrote:What!? What people!? Do you really think that the Japanese players care about power level!? :lol: Hell, I have never seen a single comment on that department whenever Heroes updates and new missions/stories are released. No, there is no "retconning the power level" in Heroes, this doesn't even matter in the slightest. All the differences occur because the manga is made by someone else with their own interpretation/spin on it, the same goes for anime (Toei). Never have I seen people complaining about that random issue that is "power level", except, of course, Western people who unfortunately care about this silly thing.

You seem to be very fan of Super Saiyan 4 and does not want it to be a weak (or weaker than any other) form, I get that, but c'mon... Try to be reasonable.
I was talking about western people.... And I am being reasonable. I am using evidence to back my theory. You don't have to accept it or agree with its importance, but its evidence.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Grimlock » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:08 pm

Oh, so you think the differences and the fact that there is no definitive conclusion to Xeno Goku and Goku battle (in the manga and in the anime only) occur because Toei and the author of Heroes manga are thinking about Western people? Now that is what I call reasonable. :roll:

Also, what evidence? Haven't seen any.
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Re: What is the dumbest DB fan theory you have ever heard?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:19 pm

The anime and manga show that the forms are equal in power. sir. That's the evidence. You just don't see it as evidence.
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