Did Piccolo surpass Freeza by the time the Androids arrived?

[zarmack]

There is much to suggest that Piccolo even before fusing with Kami was already on par with the SSJs. Anyone agree or disagree?

[Hulk10]

I'd say its unlikely that he was that close until he merged with Kami.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Of course. He claims he doesn't lack confidence on his way to the battlefield, and the Steve Simmons translated the line as having him claiming to be capable of taking on the Artificial Humans:

Piccolo: “How about it, Son Goku…Frankly, do you think we can win against this enemy…”
Goku: “There’s no way I could know that without even seeing them. I’ll answer once I give it a try.”
Piccolo: “You’re pretty carefree…It’s not like I lack confidence…However, I can’t clear this uneasy premonition from my mind…”

Spoiler:

This places him considerably above Trunks when he first appeared, who already had the power to defeat Freeza in a single blow.

He wasn't on pair with the current Super Saiyans, though. He places "current" Trunks above himself while talking to Kuririn:

Context: after Kuririn apologies for not joining the fight with No.17 and No.18
Piccolo: “Don’t worry about it. Even Trunks as a Super Saiyan was done in with basically one blow. It wouldn’t have made any difference if you had come.”

[Polyphase Avatron]

Wasn't he able to overpower Android 20 (Dr. Gero) pretty easily, and was only in trouble when he got ambushed by a sneak attack?

[Hulk10]

Wasn't he able to overpower Android 20 (Dr. Gero) pretty easily, and was only in trouble when he got ambushed by a sneak attack?

Yeah he was but since Vegeta overpowered Android 19 with not real effort I'd say that doesn't count for much.

[Ssjcell]

The short answer is yes he was far above frieza at that point

[Lunatic Fringe]

Definitely. Kuririn mentioned that he was almost as strong as a Super Saiyan, and he made that assessment three years after Future Trunks’ arrival. By the time Kuririn made his claim, the standard of power from a Super Saiyan was significantly higher than it was in the past. Therefore, I’d say that it’s easy to say that Piccolo had managed to surpass Freeza by the time Gero and #19 arrived on the scene.

[PFM18]

It makes absolutely no sense but he definitely did as far as things are presented. He's at least on the SSJs level who are leaps and bounds above Namek Freeza and he is at least as strong as Gero who should be around Freeza level at a minimum.

[mcdjbeatz]

I certainly think he did, he was confident in facing the androids who were likely expected to be stronger than Freeza as the androids were stated by Trunks to kill everyone in his timeline except for Goku and Krillin implied that he was on the level of the Super Saiyans. In addition he manhandled Android 20 with ease and was confident in saving Goku from Android 19 who endured a beating from a sick SSJ Goku. Tenshinhan was stunned by the power of a sick SSJ Goku and had experienced Goku's power as a Super Saiyan which implies Sick SSJ Goku>Yardrat SSJ Goku. Yardrat SSJ Goku was comparable to SSJ Trunks who obviously slaughtered Mecha Freeza.

Chapter 337 (DBZ 143), P1.3-4, P2.1
Piccolo: “How about it, Son Goku…Frankly, do you think we can win against this enemy…”
Goku: “There’s no way I could know that without even seeing them. I’ll answer once I give it a try.”
Piccolo: “You’re pretty carefree…It’s not like I lack confidence…However, I can’t clear this uneasy premonition from my mind…”

Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P12.4
Kuririn: “He’s st-strong…! What kind of training did Piccolo do…And he’s not even a Su-Super Saiyan…”

Chapter 341 (DBZ 147), P7.4
Tenshinhan: “There’s no need to worry. Goku is outrageously strong. This ‘Super Saiyan’ thing is incredible…! [The androids] talk big, but they’re helpless.”

[Lionel]

The three years of training with a Super Saiyan and said Super Saiyan's almost limitless potential wellspring of a son certainly helped things. I can believe that Piccolo would have made enormous strides. Enough to put Piccolo above Freeza and even SSJ Goku after Yardrat? That's probably where the disagreements start to happen. It wouldn't surprise me if Nail's inherent potential was merged with Piccolo's, enabling for some rapid growth in strength as a result. If that's not enough then maybe Toriyama should have, I don't know, maybe given Piccolo the Kaioken to rationalise his growth?

[goku the krump dancer]

Its funny.. for a time some years ago there were folks trying to rationalize the idea that Gero and 19 were actually not as strong as Freeza. Why? I really dont know or remember, I think they felt it unnecessary for Piccolo to be around post Namek SS Level for some reason.

I see no real reason to scale Piccolo or the Energy Stealing Androids downward, when its noted that the present time 17 and 18 are a lot stronger than their Future counter parts. Save for Vegeta maybe, the Z fighters would've survived the initial beating they took from the twins even w/o senzu.

Besides Piccolo was already on par w/ Freeza in his second form, the last time the two were compared on screen/panel (Pre modern stuff), which is impressive in itself. SO I don't see how he wouldn't be stronger than 100% Freeza when he spent 3 out of 4 years worth of training, sparring with Someone who was stronger than Cyber Upgrade Freeza (Goku), Who I might add, had also gotten stronger himself despite training with two people who weren't exactly on his level at that moment.

[Lukmendes]

Its funny.. for a time some years ago there were folks trying to rationalize the idea that Gero and 19 were actually not as strong as Freeza. Why? I really dont know or remember, I think they felt it unnecessary for Piccolo to be around post Namek SS Level for some reason.

I see no real reason to scale Piccolo or the Energy Stealing Androids downward, when its noted that the present time 17 and 18 are a lot stronger than their Future counter parts. Save for Vegeta maybe, the Z fighters would've survived the initial beating they took from the twins even w/o senzu.

Besides Piccolo was already on par w/ Freeza in his second form, the last time the two were compared on screen/panel (Pre modern stuff), which is impressive in itself. SO I don't see how he wouldn't be stronger than 100% Freeza when he spent 3 out of 4 years worth of training, sparring with Someone who was stronger than Cyber Upgrade Freeza (Goku), Who I might add, had also gotten stronger himself despite training with two people who weren't exactly on his level at that moment.

Being on pair with second form Freeza and stronger than 100% Freeza are two very different subjects though, 'cause 100% Freeza is around 100x stronger than second form Freeza, so he'd need a lot of catching up to do, it's why whether or not Z era Goku is stronger than Freeza in base form is a moot point.

[goku the krump dancer]

As outrageous as that might seem, outside of the fact that power levels and how they grow arent consistent at all, you gotta include the fact that Piccolo is not a Saiyan, his strength gains aren't reliant heavily on any form of physical transformation and seeing as though He can mask his ki, he can start a battle at one level and end it at something drastically different.

if you wanna say that Goku got the highest gains within that 3 year period of training for the androids.

Lets say he got 5x stronger than his Namek Arc self then that puts his base form at 15 million plus Super Saiyan and he'll be at a STAGGERING 750 million! Lets say Piccolo got 3x stronger thats 1.2 million x3 at MAX he'd be at 3.6 million, just barely above base Goku on Namek. Now saying that Gero and 19 are inferior to Freeza that puts them at lower than Base Namek arc Goku, which is obviously absurd. Because Freeza was so OP, everyone who would be considered "relevant" power wise would HAVE to be inflated, just to keep things mildly uniform at best.

[Michsi]

I always believed so and I think the story also leans in favor of that. What I don't get is why that is difficult to believe. We see him training with SSJ Goku, the strongest warrior of that time, and they trained constantly for three whole years. Piccolo was still presented as one of the story's most capable warriors so even without a transformation he was still placed pretty high up there. The saiyan take-over didn't really happen until later that arc.

[Lukmendes]

As outrageous as that might seem, outside of the fact that power levels and how they grow arent consistent at all, you gotta include the fact that Piccolo is not a Saiyan, his strength gains aren't reliant heavily on any form of physical transformation and seeing as though He can mask his ki, he can start a battle at one level and end it at something drastically different.

if you wanna say that Goku got the highest gains within that 3 year period of training for the androids.

Lets say he got 5x stronger than his Namek Arc self then that puts his base form at 15 million plus Super Saiyan and he'll be at a STAGGERING 750 million! Lets say Piccolo got 3x stronger thats 1.2 million x3 at MAX he'd be at 3.6 million, just barely above base Goku on Namek. Now saying that Gero and 19 are inferior to Freeza that puts them at lower than Base Namek arc Goku, which is obviously absurd. Because Freeza was so OP, everyone who would be considered "relevant" power wise would HAVE to be inflated, just to keep things mildly uniform at best.

Gero and 19 have to be at least outclass their base forms and at most be far from SSJ levels since both Goku and Vegeta felt the need to go SSJ against them, and Krillin commented how Piccolo is so strong while not even being a Super Saiyan, so whatever the power boost is, Piccolo is obviously at the very least, really above base form Goku from Namek and Androids saga.

[goku the krump dancer]

Right, so Goku and Vegeta Need SSJ to fight off the Gero and 19, Piccolo can fight them off as well w/o any transformation or crazy upgrade. So why should we believe that he cant take Freeza again?

[Lukmendes]

Right, so Goku and Vegeta Need SSJ to fight off the Gero and 19, Piccolo can fight them off as well w/o any transformation or crazy upgrade. So why should we believe that he cant take Freeza again?

Only reason why one wouldn't believe in that is in case 19 and Gero actualy aren't stronger than Freeza, but that sounds kinda far fetched since DB like to make the next villains stronger than the previous ones, even those who aren't the main villains.

[goku the krump dancer]

Right, so Goku and Vegeta Need SSJ to fight off the Gero and 19, Piccolo can fight them off as well w/o any transformation or crazy upgrade. So why should we believe that he cant take Freeza again?

Only reason why one wouldn't believe in that is in case 19 and Gero actualy aren't stronger than Freeza, but that sounds kinda far fetched since DB like to make the next villains stronger than the previous ones, even those who aren't the main villains.

Exactly, there's really nothing to suggest otherwise out side of "Head canon" power levels, which mean diddly squat in the grand scheme of things.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Wasn't he able to overpower Android 20 (Dr. Gero) pretty easily, and was only in trouble when he got ambushed by a sneak attack?

We have no clue how powerful Androids #20 or #19 were. Piccolo effortlessly overpowered #20, who claimed to be a superior model to #19 - whatever that means. Both could easily be weaker than Frieza. When Goku transformed to Super Saiyan, his virus already begun attacking and weakening his body, so we can't take his fight with #19 with any grain of salt. It's harder estimating #20, possibly he's around KKx10 or KKx20 on Namek range?

[Hulk10]

Piccolo was almost Super Saiyan level, but not quite by the time the Androids arrived.