So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

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So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:45 am

Note that Golden Freeza was stalemating Jiren, and even briefly held the advantage due to Jiren's dwindling stamina & self-doubt. Fast forward a minute later, Freeza is in a suppressed level of his 4th form, and he actually is able to withstand a reinvigorated Jiren's assault as well as nearly eliminating him. So is Golden Freeza like 20% stronger than 4th form Freeza or some figure slightly higher or lower?
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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:00 am

theherodjl wrote:Note that Golden Freeza was stalemating Jiren, and even briefly held the advantage due to Jiren's dwindling stamina & self-doubt. Fast forward a minute later, Freeza is in a suppressed level of his 4th form, and he actually is able to withstand a reinvigorated Jiren's assault as well as nearly eliminating him. So is Golden Freeza like 20% stronger than 4th form Freeza or some figure slightly higher or lower?
Well all of these figures are naturally going to be diminished because everybody is so weakened. So naturally any boosts seem less significant, and Jiren was still very weakened. Although it does seem in the ToP that the difference between FInal Form and Golden does seem to be a bit different.

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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:58 pm

Apparently dropping from golden to base in episode 131 actualy caused freeza to "go beyond his limits". Base Freeza did better vs Jiren than Golden Freeza did vs Jiren after Toppo gave him a pep talk in the same episode.

Base Freeza > Start of ToP SSB Goku

Golden Freeza > SSB Vegito Start of ToP

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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:23 am

Jiren was really weakened then, wasn't he?
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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by zarmack » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:56 am

I wouldn't take much of what happened in 131 seriously powerscaling-wise. Jiren was massively weakened after the beating he got from MUI Goku. Much weaker than his suppressed self from the hour special.

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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:49 am

I thought it was pretty blatant Jiren was very fatigued, he himself probably was not even using a 5th of his own power, possibly even less than that. Plus, ignoring power levels, when someone is in that
tired state I would like to believe opponents weaker than them can put up decent fights. You got less focus and stamina. And attacks that normally wouldn't phase you might do a little bit more.

Other factors too. Many underestimate how short this tournament actually was. Jiren went through rematches, didn't just fight Goku once.
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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by Cetra » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:03 am

Freeza himself said that he no longer sensed this superior power within Jiren and tried to weaken him by trolling him - which backfired eventually like it did against Toppo. Jiren lost his mojo. He only got it back right before Goku saved the day again just to do the final dance with Freeza and 17. One of the writers of the show once had Freeza below Vegeta and above Gohan and 17. If Golden Freeza cannot beat Jishou Hakaishin Toppo, not even really fight him it should show enough where his power is.
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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:09 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Jiren was really weakened then, wasn't he?
But it was only one minute later at the most, and Jiren had his morale boosted back up which in DB can mean that fading power returns to normal or even increases. Jiren was potentially stronger when he faced Freeza & Goku, but 4th form Freeza somehow did almost as well as his golden form did despite the fact that we all know that his golden form is supposed to be significantly more powerful than his 4th form. Freeza wasn't even in his buff, 100% state to boot. Either Jiren lost a large amount of Ki when he unleashed his rage upon Golden Freeza & Android 17 or Freeza performed a massive asspull of silently powering up to his golden form's power without actually transforming.
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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:19 am

theherodjl wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Jiren was really weakened then, wasn't he?
But it was only one minute later at the most, and Jiren had his morale boosted back up which in DB can mean that fading power returns to normal or even increases. Jiren was potentially stronger when he faced Freeza & Goku, but 4th form Freeza somehow did almost as well as his golden form did despite the fact that we all know that his golden form is supposed to be significantly more powerful than his 4th form. Freeza wasn't even in his buff, 100% state to boot. Either Jiren lost a large amount of Ki when he unleashed his rage upon Golden Freeza & Android 17 or Freeza performed a massive asspull of silently powering up to his golden form's power without actually transforming.
Morale and physical boosts are two entirely different things. You can have a sudden mental "rush" of spirit and you may look less tired but it won't necessarily influence your previous strength.
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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:38 pm

Jiren's morale was restored by Toppo's words, but he exhausted most of his remaining power with the energy wave that striped the gold out of Freeza... after that, he was running on fumes like everybody else.

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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:15 pm

That would work if not for the fact that jiren powered up AGAIN when goku came to help 17 and Freeza.
Gohan said the following : "An incredible amount of ki has gathered".
Vegeta stood up and said "he's gotten over his issues"

I don't think jiren powering up to a level that rivals base freeza or base goku would impress fighters at the level of gohan and especially vegeta. That wouldn't

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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:18 pm

That's because Jiren's fumes are still stronger than them together

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Re: So Just How Strong Is Golden Freeza Supposed To Be When 4th Form Freeza Managed Against Jiren Well Enough?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:38 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:That's because Jiren's fumes are still stronger than them together
We even see that, when Jiren can handle it and/or is pumped enough, he can just fly through 17's blasts without issue like he often does.

For me personally, I like to think that everyone was so damaged and/or tired that they were all mostly just slapping against one another without much ability to focus on taking the hits.

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