Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

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Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by DNA » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:30 am

At this point I'm rather confused, as far as I know Goku & Friends return does not conflict with anything, it's set between Majin Buu's defeat and the appearance of Beerus. But does it still have a place in this new "timeline wall"? During Dragon Ball Super it seemed that everyone was aggressively shoving that story to the side, but apparently now in the Broli movie once again it is mentioned that Vegeta does indeed have a brother. So which is it?
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:49 am

"Canon" is an iffy thing in this franchise.
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by DNA » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:56 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:"Canon" is an iffy thing in this franchise.
Been here since 2006, I'm well aware. Also, that's not specifically what I asked.
There now exists the closest thing we have to a canonical timeline, it follows the original manga and the Super manga. It bothers me if Goku & Friends no longer fits there, since it was originally meant to be a continuation of the manga, an extra chapter.
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by Lord Frieza » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:44 am

Well the biggest issue was created right at the start of Super.

You see Goku & Friends takes place roughly two years after the final battle with Buu. Now this was fine when BoG came out because no strict date was set in the movie so we all rightly assumed it took place some time afterwards. However Super starts a mere 6 months after the end of the Buu arc, this creates a pretty giant continuity issue because during Goku & Friends Pan had not been born yet.


So I have no idea what their up to on this one. Would you believe that of all the stuff I've heard about the film this is the one I like least. They went to the trouble of writing the event out of the timeline so it seems really silly to try and put it back. That said they could simple be trying to bring back Tarble in a different way.

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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by PFM18 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:01 pm

Yeah of course it is canon. Just because Tarble wasn't mentioned in BoG this time around doesn't mean he isn't canon. The promotional material of the movie revealed a family tree with Tarble in it, and he is mentioned in the movie. If there was any doubt if it was still in the continuity, it is confirmed to be in it now

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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:17 pm

Well, there is no canon in this franchise. But if you follow Toriyama's continuity, you can pretty much say Tarble is a thing in it. Conversely, if you follow Toei's or Toyotaro's continuity, you can ignore him.

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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by DNA » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:36 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:Well the biggest issue was created right at the start of Super.

You see Goku & Friends takes place roughly two years after the final battle with Buu. Now this was fine when BoG came out because no strict date was set in the movie so we all rightly assumed it took place some time afterwards. However Super starts a mere 6 months after the end of the Buu arc, this creates a pretty giant continuity issue because during Goku & Friends Pan had not been born yet.


So I have no idea what their up to on this one. Would you believe that of all the stuff I've heard about the film this is the one I like least. They went to the trouble of writing the event out of the timeline so it seems really silly to try and put it back. That said they could simple be trying to bring back Tarble in a different way.
Yes, it did seem like they were trying to write him out, however, we could take it as Super starts 6 months after the defeat of Buu, but then time skips for when Beerus appeared and the year is the same. Unless the dates don't match up, but I believe they do.
PFM18 wrote:The promotional material of the movie revealed a family tree with Tarble in it, and he is mentioned in the movie.
I didn't know about this family tree, I want to see it.
Grimlock wrote:Well, there is no canon in this franchise.
Again, promotional material both in Japan and USA has revealed an official sequence of events that follows the Dragon Ball manga and Dragon Ball Super manga, nothing else appears to be there, as far as I know.
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:43 pm

DNA wrote:I didn't know about this family tree, I want to see it.
Here.
DNA wrote:Again, promotional material both in Japan and USA has revealed an official sequence of events that follows the Dragon Ball manga and Dragon Ball Super manga, nothing else appears to be there, as far as I know.
[img=https://imgur.com/a/pjndMXE]History of Dragon Ball[/img]
Yep, that timeline does not refer to the events of Tarble OVA and as you yourself said, it is a promotional thing. Does it really need to be taken that serious? It seems to be that timeline is no different from that one that showed AGES for the events months ago (the one that mixed Dragon Ball Super with Dragon Ball GT). I don't think people behind these stuff put too much thought on it. They just showed events in a chronological order using just the manga material.

Anyway, to make things clearer: canon would dictate you which continuity you must follow in the case I mentioned above. Since there is not one, you are free to choose.

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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by DNA » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:47 pm

Grimlock wrote:Yep, that timeline does not refer to the events of Tarble OVA and as you yourself said, it is a promotional thing. Does it really need to be taken that serious? It seems to be that timeline is no different from that one that showed AGES for the events months ago (the one that mixed Dragon Ball Super with Dragon Ball GT). I don't think people behind these stuff put too much thought on it. They just showed events in a chronological order using just the manga material.

Anyway, to make things clearer: canon would dictate you which continuity you must follow in the case I mentioned above. Since there is not one, you are free to choose.
Yeah well, I guess you are right. What I showed is the closest we have to an "official canon timeline", but even that has to be taken with a grain of salt. Oh well, I'll just keep considering Goku & Friends Return as a story within the "normal" continuity.
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by Saturnine » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:27 pm

We'll see if Tarble is really mentioned when we get to see the movie subbed or dubbed, right? Throughout Super, I've had the impression the whole time that he's been handwaved. Tarble is kind of a throwaway character anyway.

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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by Yuli Ban » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:31 pm

Tarble is indeed mentioned in a guide for Super: Broly, so it's clear he exists in this universe. At least this timeline, separate from the Super anime.
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by PFM18 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 2:57 am

Lord Frieza wrote:Well the biggest issue was created right at the start of Super.

You see Goku & Friends takes place roughly two years after the final battle with Buu. Now this was fine when BoG came out because no strict date was set in the movie so we all rightly assumed it took place some time afterwards. However Super starts a mere 6 months after the end of the Buu arc, this creates a pretty giant continuity issue because during Goku & Friends Pan had not been born yet.


So I have no idea what their up to on this one. Would you believe that of all the stuff I've heard about the film this is the one I like least. They went to the trouble of writing the event out of the timeline so it seems really silly to try and put it back. That said they could simple be trying to bring back Tarble in a different way.
No, Super starts 6 months after in the first episode when Satan gives Goku the money but then there's a 4 year time-skip. If it was just 6 months after then Videl wouldnt be pregnant, obviously.

Goku and Friends return still takes place in between the Buu and BoG arcs. And, Tarble was acknowledged in the new movie written by Toriyama, so Goku and Friends return still fits perfectly in the "canon" of the franchise.

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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by emperior » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:17 am

The new movie confirms, yet again, that Tarble exists.
His OVA doesn’t alter anything at all about the story but it’s still very nice and good-looking, even if it has some errors, so why not consider it canon? It’s basically a fun filler episode which introduces Vegeta’s brother, Goku’s job as a farmer and has some fun interactions between the characters.
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by Sani007 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:21 am

emperior wrote:The new movie confirms, yet again, that Tarble exists.
His OVA doesn’t alter anything at all about the story but it’s still very nice and good-looking, even if it has some errors, so why not consider it canon? It’s basically a fun filler episode which introduces Vegeta’s brother, Goku’s job as a farmer and has some fun interactions between the characters.
The manga or the anime? Toriyama thinks the manga adaptation is better.

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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by emperior » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:20 am

Sani007 wrote:
emperior wrote:The new movie confirms, yet again, that Tarble exists.
His OVA doesn’t alter anything at all about the story but it’s still very nice and good-looking, even if it has some errors, so why not consider it canon? It’s basically a fun filler episode which introduces Vegeta’s brother, Goku’s job as a farmer and has some fun interactions between the characters.
The manga or the anime? Toriyama thinks the manga adaptation is better.
Both can be considered canon, but the manga adaptation is probably the one Toriyama would consider himself and I think that also fixed the errors from the animated version.
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:46 pm

If by Canon, you mean takes place after Kid Buu's defeat but before Super? then no. There is a mention to Tarble in the Battle of Gods Movie, but nothing in the Battle of Gods arc. So no.
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by KBABZ » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:09 pm

The lackadaisy tone of the episode means it has a decent argument in both directions: it's unimportant so there's no harm cutting it, and it's unimportant so there's no harm including it.

Outside of the introduction of Tarble, I think the special is supplanted by Battle of Gods in a thematic sense because both revolve around the main cast of characters holding a reunion party for a special occasion which is interrupted by a villain from nowhere who is seemingly insurmountable, and goes undefeated by the time the story ends.

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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:32 pm

KBABZ wrote:The lackadaisy tone of the episode means it has a decent argument in both directions: it's unimportant so there's no harm cutting it, and it's unimportant so there's no harm including it.

Outside of the introduction of Tarble, I think the special is supplanted by Battle of Gods in a thematic sense because both revolve around the main cast of characters holding a reunion party for a special occasion which is interrupted by a villain from nowhere who is seemingly insurmountable, and goes undefeated by the time the story ends.
Abo and Cado were insurmountable and undefeated?
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by Omori » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:06 pm

Tricky one...
The ages in Super are an issue they need to address at some point...

Around two years ago, I explained it myself like this. With the Tarble special in 776... but...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l6Q9f1Ym2s

But now we have the Broly movie,
So.. What does that mean for Super? It means he exists. It confirms that Vegeta "still" has a brother. However we don't know whether they already met or not. In case they reintroduce him in Super, it will be interesting how everyone reacts to him.

I hope that the "Dragon Ball Room" gave some thoughts about it. And if the dialogue in the movie was indeed from Toriyama...
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Re: Goku & Friends Return - Still canon?

Post by KBABZ » Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:30 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
KBABZ wrote:The lackadaisy tone of the episode means it has a decent argument in both directions: it's unimportant so there's no harm cutting it, and it's unimportant so there's no harm including it.

Outside of the introduction of Tarble, I think the special is supplanted by Battle of Gods in a thematic sense because both revolve around the main cast of characters holding a reunion party for a special occasion which is interrupted by a villain from nowhere who is seemingly insurmountable, and goes undefeated by the time the story ends.
Abo and Cado were insurmountable and undefeated?
It's been a while since I watched it that one time, but I recall that they were surprisingly tough opponents at the very least.

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