Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

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Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by theherodjl » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:37 am

So we have the strongest fighter in the tournament just chilling back until the halfway point & not making any move until Belmod permits him to, just why would he agree to that??? Jiren was so overwhelming strong that his suppressed power pushed back a Kaio-Ken x20 SSJB Goku along with the super Genki Dama, what is to stop him from going to full strength as soon as Daishinkan said "Begin!" and kicked every fighter from every other universe out of bounds? Did he just value honor, loyalty, and fair play that much to not seize his wish from the Super DBs like the beast he is???
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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by Kataphrut » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:45 am

A combination of arrogance and wanting to preserve stamina. There was no need for him to cut loose until the weaklings had cleared the ring.

At the end of the day, Jiren's a bully. He wasn't going to just end it immediately when he could let them struggle.

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:25 am

Plot. I guess you can explain it with the old good "He was too arrogant to believe he could lose" excuse, but, really, the real reason is Plot. If Jiren just eliminated everyone in the first episode of the Tournament, the arc would have failed. Just like Fused Zamasu didn't kill everyone as soon as he opened his eyes and instead wasted time toying with them.
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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by Waluigiman » Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:04 pm

Maybe to let the others fight so they could entertain the Zenos. Just imagine if he wiped everyone out in a instant and the two mutated children will be upset about how anticlimactic the fight was. He must have not known the true intention behind the tournament but it will be too risky to do this. That and/or because he is arrogant or lazy like everyone else said.

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:58 pm

For the longest time I thought it was because he wanted to fight a worthy opponent, so he would let his potential opponents improve and show their power throughout the tournament so he could fight them at their best. But his attitude during the final battles of the tournament doesn't support that.
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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by PFM18 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:36 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:But his attitude during the final battles of the tournament doesn't support that.
How so?

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:55 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:But his attitude during the final battles of the tournament doesn't support that.
How so?
He was getting angry and frustrated that Goku was beating him, and acting so irrational that he even attacked the audience.
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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by PFM18 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:38 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:But his attitude during the final battles of the tournament doesn't support that.
How so?
He was getting angry and frustrated that Goku was beating him, and acting so irrational that he even attacked the audience.
Cell was the same way. He wanted to fight somebody worthy and who would give him a fight, but then when Gohan started kicking the shit out of him he got angry and frustrated and was entirely uninterested in having a "worthy opponent" like he was moments prior.

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by The Monkey King » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:15 am

The real question is why didn't Jiren just do a huge Kiai like Nappa did and blow everyone away winning instantly
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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:17 pm

The Monkey King wrote:The real question is why didn't Jiren just do a huge Kiai like Nappa did and blow everyone away winning instantly
Zenos would be annoyed as they wanted to see fights.
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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 pm

He was dangerously and stupidly arrogant and confident in his strength just like 99.9% of all of the all the other major antagonists in Dragon Ball.

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by TheMikado » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:37 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
How so?
He was getting angry and frustrated that Goku was beating him, and acting so irrational that he even attacked the audience.
Cell was the same way. He wanted to fight somebody worthy and who would give him a fight, but then when Gohan started kicking the shit out of him he got angry and frustrated and was entirely uninterested in having a "worthy opponent" like he was moments prior.
Except we had a crap ton of setup for Cell “wanting to fight a worthy opponent” so we he didn’t go full force the moment he became perfect. It’s why his arrogant setup of hosting the Cell games is poetic justice when he gets shown up by a child which is just plain good writing. Here the audience is left trying to figure out what Jiren was thinking. Another example would be Frieza. We know he had artificial caps on his power and really his failure to use the appropriate form off the bat was due to his arrogance and gross underestimating of his opponents. Top it off with what appears to be energy/stamina issues and you have an in universe justification for a prolonged battle.

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by PFM18 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:07 pm

TheMikado wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
He was getting angry and frustrated that Goku was beating him, and acting so irrational that he even attacked the audience.
Cell was the same way. He wanted to fight somebody worthy and who would give him a fight, but then when Gohan started kicking the shit out of him he got angry and frustrated and was entirely uninterested in having a "worthy opponent" like he was moments prior.
Except we had a crap ton of setup for Cell “wanting to fight a worthy opponent” so we he didn’t go full force the moment he became perfect. It’s why his arrogant setup of hosting the Cell games is poetic justice when he gets shown up by a child which is just plain good writing. Here the audience is left trying to figure out what Jiren was thinking. Another example would be Frieza. We know he had artificial caps on his power and really his failure to use the appropriate form off the bat was due to his arrogance and gross underestimating of his opponents. Top it off with what appears to be energy/stamina issues and you have an in universe justification for a prolonged battle.
The point is just that him being frustrated does not show that he wasn't looking for a worthy opponent. He could want a worthy opponent while simultaneously be frustrated when he gets a taste of his own medicine

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by zarmack » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:29 pm

Plot-induced Stupidity, that's all it was.

Also, the only reason the "no-killing" even exist in the ToP arc was to give Goku a believable chance to win, since Jiren at the start of the ToP could just one-shot everybody.

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by BWri » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:30 am

zarmack wrote:Plot-induced Stupidity, that's all it was.

Also, the only reason the "no-killing" even exist in the ToP arc was to give Goku a believable chance to win, since Jiren at the start of the ToP could just one-shot everybody.
This makes a lot of sense actually. I'm glad you brought it up. I always wondered (outside of obvious plot reasons) why he didn't just blow everyone away with one big powerup. The answer is that he had no clue how weak many of the competitors were. If he managed to accidently kill someone with that kind of attack, he would have been eliminated. So he sits back and let's his allies eliminate the weaklings so that he doesn't chance accidentally killing them himself.
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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by TobyS » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:31 am

Doesn't Jiren specifically say he doesn't want to knock anyone out and cause the erasure of any universe, he only joins when he gets offered the super DBs wish for coming along.

He's obviously hoping the rest of his universe can win without him.

Plus the arrogance and saving stamina things.

Totally logical. It's not the best executed arc but I hate when people bring trumped up charges because they can't fucking read (either literally or between the lines)
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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by TobyS » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:33 am

BWri wrote:
zarmack wrote:Plot-induced Stupidity, that's all it was.

Also, the only reason the "no-killing" even exist in the ToP arc was to give Goku a believable chance to win, since Jiren at the start of the ToP could just one-shot everybody.
This makes a lot of sense actually. I'm glad you brought it up. I always wondered (outside of obvious plot reasons) why he didn't just blow everyone away with one big powerup. The answer is that he had no clue how weak many of the competitors were. If he managed to accidently kill someone with that kind of attack, he would have been eliminated. So he sits back and let's his allies eliminate the weaklings so that he doesn't chance accidentally killing them himself.
It's why Roshi was able to do what he did. Jiren was throwing punches at roshis level (which mean roughly roshi speed) psudeo ui makes you functionally if not literally a higher level opponent. The moment jiren increased his blows he one shotted the old man. People are just tribalist weirdos who prefer the children's cartoon show to the children's comic and start pointless comparative arguments
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by BWri » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:47 am

TobyS wrote:
BWri wrote:
zarmack wrote:Plot-induced Stupidity, that's all it was.

Also, the only reason the "no-killing" even exist in the ToP arc was to give Goku a believable chance to win, since Jiren at the start of the ToP could just one-shot everybody.
This makes a lot of sense actually. I'm glad you brought it up. I always wondered (outside of obvious plot reasons) why he didn't just blow everyone away with one big powerup. The answer is that he had no clue how weak many of the competitors were. If he managed to accidently kill someone with that kind of attack, he would have been eliminated. So he sits back and let's his allies eliminate the weaklings so that he doesn't chance accidentally killing them himself.
It's why Roshi was able to do what he did. Jiren was throwing punches at roshis level (which mean roughly roshi speed) psudeo ui makes you functionally if not literally a higher level opponent. The moment jiren increased his blows he one shotted the old man. People are just tribalist weirdos who prefer the children's cartoon show to the children's comic and start pointless comparative arguments
Roshi vs Jiren is more of an egregious example. I can't buy that one. I hear what you're saying and it makes sense on some level, but the way it was presented in the manga doesn't follow. If Jiren already has that level of ki control then it follows that he'd immediately note that Roshi is fighting at a higher level and increase himself to match.

It also doesn't work, because while Jiren's attack level would be lowered to match Roshi, his reflexes would be the same. A fighter's reflexes have never been shown to dull drastically even when they have lowered their PL. A fighter's reflexes do increase with a PL boost as seen with Vegeta on Namek, but never do they decrease to several levels below. Jiren would have been able to see through an UI imitation at Roshi's level. Toyotaro should have simply had a weaker fighter against Roshi so that scene makes since. Jiren is too much.

I will 100% agree that people are tribalist weirdos though :lol: . Why can't we all just agree and disagree with data and facts?
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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:38 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
The Monkey King wrote:The real question is why didn't Jiren just do a huge Kiai like Nappa did and blow everyone away winning instantly
Zenos would be annoyed as they wanted to see fights.
That's a fair point. Nobody in the arc really comments on it, but they are essentially putting on a show. Jiren ending it immediately could have gotten him erased.

It would've been cool if there were a scene of a bunch of nothing fighters hiding behind some rocks thinking they can just wait it out with numbers and the Grand Priest just swings by like "bro. You ain't here to gold brick."

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Re: Just What Was Jiren's Reasoning For Not Eliminating Goku & Everyone Else Right Off The Bat?

Post by majinwarman » Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:35 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:He was dangerously and stupidly arrogant and confident in his strength just like 99.9% of all of the all the other major antagonists in Dragon Ball.
It is pretty obvious that he has a huge ego considering how we were introduced to him in the anime.
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