Whatever Happened To The Concept Of A SSJ Being The Strongest Fighter In The Universe?

[theherodjl]

Prior to chapter 318 of the manga, SSJ wasn't just a transformation that multiplied a Saiyan's power by the double-digits but a powerup that boosted a Saiyan to being worthy of the status of the universe's strongest warrior. So...what exactly happened to make Akira Toriyama change his mind & decide that SSJ was just a general increase in power rather than the ultimate powerup it was hyped up to be? M4 at least gave us the first look at the almighty SSJ by having Goku pwn Slug for the brief moment that he was able to hold SSJ before it wore off. Shouldn't the "false SSJ" have been the SSJ that appeared when Goku battled Freeza & when Trunks killed Freeza & Cold while the next arcs should've been them trying to achieve the "real SSJ" but inching toward it slowly? It would've made the appearance of the SSJ Grades as well as SSJ2 & SSJ3 have a greater purpose than being powerups pulled out of their asses for the sake of continuing the story as well as not turning the original legend of SSJ as a sort of self-parody by the Boo arc.

[Hugo Boss]

So...what exactly happened to make Akira Toriyama change his mind & decide that SSJ was just a general increase in power rather than the ultimate powerup it was hyped up to be?

I think Mr. Toriyama was somewhat in a difficult position, since he had to continue the story and that would inevitably lead to threats stronger than the first Super Saiyan debut. So, what about thinking Goku had just scratched the surface of that legendary power?

[Regarder]

Isn't this more out of universe than in-universe? It would have worked to keep it the strongest if there were some kind of limitations or consequences to it, but beyond it being connected to the feeling of righteous anger, there's not anything particular in the build up to Super Saiyan being achieved that would have allowed for the continuing story to keep it at the top spot. Since it's straight up a higher power level, and the story became about power level escalation, it had to be surpassed at some point. I guess it could have been surpassed at a slower rate and SS2 could have been held off for later or something, but Toriyama was under pressure from both his editor and ex-editor to change the villains repeatedly during what became the Cell saga, so that necessarily meant that power levels were going to sky rocket and that if Cell had a Perfect form, then it's natural counterpart was SS2 and so the story evolved in the appropriate way given the circumstances. It could have been set up differently, but honestly that would have required things in the Namek section of the story to be set up different too, and Toriyama was always flying by the seat of his pants.

In-universe, it just got surpassed because there were higher levels to the same kind of transformation. There's not much more to it than that. Later we got the new info about S-cells increasing with battle power so we know what makes the transformation possible. SS3 is going to be a certain level of having enough of those cells to more radically alter the body than SS2 and SS1.

[Appers]

I thought about this some time ago myself, but I came up with something that, although probably not intentional, sorta works?

Basically it's that the Super Saiyan (the form itself and the many variations and upgrades of it as well) has the POTENTIAL to be the strongest and overcome any and all barriers that normal fighters can't surpass if they're met with enemies that continuously push their limits, not that it gives an instant unbeatable power-up.

Granted, there are some people in the series that Goku and Vegeta haven't gotten stronger than yet, but I don't doubt that at some point they'll be gaining on them and then even surpassing them.

TLDR; The legendary warrior continuously has its strength tested time and time again and eventually comes out on top.

[Muffin Man]

After SSJ was introduced, the suits behind DB no doubt realized that new forms = new toys and other new merchandise.

[Desassina]

It still is. There's Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Even Ultra Instincts was the Super Saiyan of its Omen. Symbolically.

[theherodjl]

It still is. There's Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Even Ultra Instincts was the Super Saiyan of its Omen. Symbolically.

SSJB is something new & unaccounted for in regards to the original legend though. In fact, the lineage of SSJG tacks on a greater title & level of power that makes the SSJ of legend obsolete, pointless, and a lie. The "ultimate warrior" in the form of the SSJ doesn't amount to much when there's also "the power of a god" to be attached to it and then improved upon not once but twice and possibly more with the series' future & potential story arcs waiting to unfold. As it stands by present events, any Saiyan can simply be "super" so as long as they're just much stronger than the extinct Saiyans of Planet Vegeta, a feat that may already be achieved by Baby Pan going by DBS's implications.

[PFM18]

Luckily, Super has fixed this, and given a Super Saiyan form(s) a feeling of being special and being the strongest in the Universe. The number of Super Saiyans has increased by four in the pantheon of Super, But you still only have two characters with the divine SSJ transformations. So THOSE Super Saiyans feel special. By the Buu arc, there wasn't really any SSJ form that felt really special. Now we do.

[Desassina]

SSJB is something new & unaccounted for in regards to the original legend though. In fact, the lineage of SSJG tacks on a greater title & level of power that makes the SSJ of legend obsolete, pointless, and a lie. The "ultimate warrior" in the form of the SSJ doesn't amount to much when there's also "the power of a god" to be attached to it and then improved upon not once but twice and possibly more with the series' future & potential story arcs waiting to unfold. As it stands by present events, any Saiyan can simply be "super" so as long as they're just much stronger than the extinct Saiyans of Planet Vegeta, a feat that may already be achieved by Baby Pan going by DBS's implications.

My problem was that I replied to the thread title and not the first post. The concept of a Super Saiyan has been reused with others. It means to release one's Ki in transformation or, in Ultra Instincts' case, to gather it once it has been built. Super Saiyan Blue was both. That it had to be a specific form is expecting too much for a series that continued past the Namek arc. I spoiled myself with the AnimeAjay video of DBS: Broly and...

Spoiler:

... Freeza seems to have mentioned the Super Saiyan God legend already, alongside the regular Super Saiyan one, when nobody could transform yet.

It is to expect that they knew both now.

[CaroKami]

It was. Hell, it still is.

After the Freeza arc, the only types of characters who showed up and were stronger than a Super Saiyan were created beings, ancient beings, or beings from different realms and universes.