Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

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Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Tavarano » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:51 pm

There are strong reasons to believe that it is the case.
1. Goku knows exactly how many seconds are there before Cell explodes, yet ends up staying around and talking, even when Cell directly says "4 seconds left" Goku still takes his sweet time. The author wouldn't draw Goku casually talking to Kaio with his fingers off his forehead if it was meant to be seen as instantenous.
2. Goku's apology to ChiChi, Goku having no genuine remorse for anything he does is one of his most defining traits, soon after his death when Kaio blames Goku for killing him, Goku's reaction is "I apologized, didn't I? Why can't you let go of it?" so if you take Toei's interpretation of Goku apologizing for always being selfish it's like he suddenly developed conscience and then immediately dropped it. It's more likely that Goku apologized for abandoning ChiChi preemptively showing premeditation.
3. You may say that Goku wouldn't know about strong martial artists of the past yet - this plot point seems to have been planned in advance with a hidden dialogue, Kaio's remark is very similar to what Goku uses as his excuse on the lookout later.
4. Toriyama's comments, those 2 in particular:
"I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows."
"Also, this is often misunderstood, but I’m not good with wholesome content. It may seem wholesome at first glance, but there’s actually poison inside."

Your thoughts? Note that Goku's "I'm proud of you." that adds warmth to the scene is Viz' mistranslation, in the original version it's "I was very impressed.".
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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:00 am

I'm not so sure about that. I doubt Goku purposefully died in Cell's explosion. I do believe he had selfish reasons for going to train Uub but I doubt Goku purposefully died in Cell's explosion. After all I always thought that King Kai only filled Goku in about the warriors of the past after he died in Cell's explosion.
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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Tavarano » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:16 am

Hulk10 wrote:I'm not so sure about that. I doubt Goku purposefully died in Cell's explosion. I do believe he had selfish reasons for going to train Uub but I doubt Goku purposefully died in Cell's explosion. After all I always thought that King Kai only filled Goku in about the warriors of the past after he died in Cell's explosion.
One of the things that Goku says to Gohan after contacting him is this which means Goku already had an idea of having fun in afterlife at least by this moment, if he didn't die on purpose, what would he apologize to ChiChi for? He didn't have any character development like Toei made it seem, he never changed.
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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:23 am

He apologized because he knew that Chi Chi wouldn't be happy to learn of his death. And he knew that his death upset his son, that's all. You can make this theory if you want. I'm just not convinced.
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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Tavarano » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:26 am

Hulk10 wrote:He apologized because he knew that Chi Chi wouldn't be happy to learn of his death.
Assuming he didn't want to die on purpose, he wouldn't even know by this moment if he would make it out in time and it would be in his best interest to not waste time talking, and even if his death was somehow a necessity, it would show that he already knew that he would refuse ressurection.
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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Hulk10 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:29 am

Tavarano wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:He apologized because he knew that Chi Chi wouldn't be happy to learn of his death.
Assuming he didn't want to die on purpose, he wouldn't even know by this moment if he would make it out in time and it would be in his best interest to not waste time talking, and even if his death was somehow a necessity, it would show that he already knew that he would refuse ressurection.
Not necessarily. He could have figured out that he had little chance of escaping and decided that as a father he owed it to Gohan to give him a farewell speech. That shows he likely knew he wouldn't escape death but it doesn't prove that he already knew he would refuse resurrection. I think your giving a bit too much credit. Sure he isn't stupid but I don't think he is that good at planning ahead.
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In the name of the mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I will never again bow to your charge! But I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking to Unicron controlled Megatron.

The arrogance of man is thinking that we are in control of our destiny. Let them fight. -Dr. Ishiro Serizawa to Admiral William Stenz.

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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Zephyr » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:58 am

I wouldn't be surprised if that factored into his decision. As in, any hesitation he may have otherwise had would have gone out the window as soon as he realized the opportunities that dying could present itself.

But I really doubt that was his sole, or even primary, motive for sacrificing himself.

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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:40 pm

Hmm.

This is always something that has crossed my mind in the past. I certainly think the idea of Goku being able to train and get stronger while still being dead was one of the factor that determined Goku's decision to stay dead. I don't believe the core motivation for Goku not coming back was base solely on that motivation but more to do with the fact that there just wasn't enough time to get back to Earth once he had taken Cell to King Kai's planet.

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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Lionel » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:52 pm

Training in the afterlife has already shown to be possible for Goku while alive during the BOG arc. Unless having access to Grand Kai's planet and population necessitated being dead, the option to train in the celestial realm should not have posed an issue for Goku. Some of the comments made by Goku with regards to fusion and his inability to test it out because of no one in the afterlife being strong enough implies that it may not have necessarily been the fighters themselves that were going to help benefit him.

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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Cetra » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:35 am

Not even he is that selfish. But he would definitely der it as convenience the moment he realizes it.
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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by emperior » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:28 am

In the manga there weren’t strong fighters in the other world for Goku to measure up against, as he said he couldn’t find anyone strong to fuse with there.
I think it’s just part of Goku’s nature to always stay positive so that’s why it seemed like he was happy to be dead. He definitely didn’t plan to die or else he wouldn’t have urged Gohan to kill Cell as soon as possible when Gohan started to toy around. But he realised the problems his presence on Earth was bringing everyone and once he retired from his fight with Cell it was like admitting defeat not only to Cell but to himself, for not being strong enough to protect everyone and to rely on his little son to do the job. For once, Goku wasn’t selfish in the decision to stay dead, but he also wasn’t sad or depressed because that’s not his character so he saw the opportunities of being dead instead of what he was losing on.
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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Ssjcell » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:04 am

emperior wrote:In the manga there weren’t strong fighters in the other world for Goku to measure up against, as he said he couldn’t find anyone strong to fuse with there.
I think it’s just part of Goku’s nature to always stay positive so that’s why it seemed like he was happy to be dead. He definitely didn’t plan to die or else he wouldn’t have urged Gohan to kill Cell as soon as possible when Gohan started to toy around. But he realised the problems his presence on Earth was bringing everyone and once he retired from his fight with Cell it was like admitting defeat not only to Cell but to himself, for not being strong enough to protect everyone and to rely on his little son to do the job. For once, Goku wasn’t selfish in the decision to stay dead, but he also wasn’t sad or depressed because that’s not his character so he saw the opportunities of being dead instead of what he was losing on.
The anime makes Goku look suicidal the manga makes his death look unavoidable. I don't think he was suicidal , if he was it was in fairness to King Kai bubbles and Gregory so they didn't die alone. I definitely don't want to die especially since the best sparring partner ever just emerged in gohan

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Re: Did Goku purposefully die in Cell's explosion, in order to train in the afterlife?

Post by Cold Skin » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:12 pm

The logical conclusion would be that he knew he wouldn't have the time to teleport back. A lot of times, Goku is seen having to focus on someone before teleporting, especially if they are distant which would be what he does to find Kaio while he talks to Gohan.
That would be why he knew it was a one-way trip to explode with Cell far away, not having time to focus on Gohan and the rest and return.

Of course, this explanation is undermined by the few times we see Goku teleport very quickly, one of them being in the manga itself when he brings back Dende and is seen teleporting to and from Kaio's place almost instantly, with just enough time to say "It's all good now, here's the new Earth God, see ya!".

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