Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

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Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:08 pm

During the Cell Games Saga of Dragon Ball Z, exactly when SSJ2 Son Gohan and Super Perfect Cell had unleashed their respective improved versions of the Super Kamehameha at each other, what if Mr. Piccolo and the rest of the Z Fighters with him had given all of their power to the likes of Super Saiyan 2 Son Gohan even before the demented Super Perfect Cell would have powered-up his own Solar Kamehameha technique for the very first time?

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Ssjcell » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:41 pm

Steven Bloodriver wrote:During the Cell Games Saga of Dragon Ball Z, exactly when SSJ2 Son Gohan and Super Perfect Cell had unleashed their respective improved versions of the Super Kamehameha at each other, what if Mr. Piccolo and the rest of the Z Fighters with him had given all of their power to the likes of Super Saiyan 2 Son Gohan even before the demented Super Perfect Cell would have powered-up his own Solar Kamehameha technique for the very first time?
Of course but that was Gohan's battle his moment that would have been cheapened by that to be honest

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by theherodjl » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:35 pm

I think Gohan could've won like that but it all depends on how much power & intensity Cell momentarily lossed after being surprise attacked by Vegeta. If Cell had only lost a little then Gohan plus the remaining Z Senshi's Ki would utterly destroy Cell from the get go but if Cell lost a lot then it could've only given Gohan enough to stalemate Cell.
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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Lionel » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:03 am

Piccolo could have afforded an impressive bolstering to Gohan's power. Would it allow Gohan to overpower Cell? Depends on how much of his power was robbed as a result of his arm being crippled. My own admittedly generous estimate for Piccolo is that his power might have equalled 1/4th of SSJ2 Gohan's during this time. So if Gohan's handicap wasn't much less than 25% of his original power then Piccolo alone could have provided the necessary strength to overcome Cell's Kamehameha or, at the very least, stalemate.

If this incident is happening after the Kamehameha duel has already begun and Vegeta has exhausted himself then the only other ones available that can supply power outside of Piccolo are Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha. You can see the flaw there already, can't you? Applying even the most generous projections for their power wouldn't allow them to match even 1/10th of the Android arc Super Saiyan power levels, let alone anything after the ROSAT has been used and beyond (this is coming from someone who tries to give the humans an impressive power boost and believes that Tenshinhan might have been within the realm of the Base Saiyans during the initial confrontation with the cyborgs). It would be like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. The humans would be better off supplying their ki to Tenshinhan and then having him go to town on Cell once again with his Shin Kikoho.

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Ssjcell » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:38 pm

Lionel wrote:Piccolo could have afforded an impressive bolstering to Gohan's power. Would it allow Gohan to overpower Cell? Depends on how much of his power was robbed as a result of his arm being crippled. My own admittedly generous estimate for Piccolo is that his power might have equalled 1/4th of SSJ2 Gohan's during this time. So if Gohan's handicap wasn't much less than 25% of his original power then Piccolo alone could have provided the necessary strength to overcome Cell's Kamehameha or, at the very least, stalemate.

If this incident is happening after the Kamehameha duel has already begun and Vegeta has exhausted himself then the only other ones available that can supply power outside of Piccolo are Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha. You can see the flaw there already, can't you? Applying even the most generous projections for their power wouldn't allow them to match even 1/10th of the Android arc Super Saiyan power levels, let alone anything after the ROSAT has been used and beyond (this is coming from someone who tries to give the humans an impressive power boost and believes that Tenshinhan might have been within the realm of the Base Saiyans during the initial confrontation with the cyborgs). It would be like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. The humans would be better off supplying their ki to Tenshinhan and then having him go to town on Cell once again with his Shin Kikoho.
Gohan was like 100 times stronger than piccolo cell before he reverts back to his raging semi self might have been 1/4 Gohan imo

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Lionel » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:58 pm

Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:Piccolo could have afforded an impressive bolstering to Gohan's power. Would it allow Gohan to overpower Cell? Depends on how much of his power was robbed as a result of his arm being crippled. My own admittedly generous estimate for Piccolo is that his power might have equalled 1/4th of SSJ2 Gohan's during this time. So if Gohan's handicap wasn't much less than 25% of his original power then Piccolo alone could have provided the necessary strength to overcome Cell's Kamehameha or, at the very least, stalemate.

If this incident is happening after the Kamehameha duel has already begun and Vegeta has exhausted himself then the only other ones available that can supply power outside of Piccolo are Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha. You can see the flaw there already, can't you? Applying even the most generous projections for their power wouldn't allow them to match even 1/10th of the Android arc Super Saiyan power levels, let alone anything after the ROSAT has been used and beyond (this is coming from someone who tries to give the humans an impressive power boost and believes that Tenshinhan might have been within the realm of the Base Saiyans during the initial confrontation with the cyborgs). It would be like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. The humans would be better off supplying their ki to Tenshinhan and then having him go to town on Cell once again with his Shin Kikoho.
Gohan was like 100 times stronger than piccolo cell before he reverts back to his raging semi self might have been 1/4 Gohan imo
You're free to believe that if you choose. My interpretation is that Piccolo was in the same league as Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell Games; weaker of course, but not by a large amount. All three of them could have exceeded half of MSSJ Goku's power, I think. Adding to that, I don't have the largest of disparities existing between Goku and his son (about a 20% gap). From there a x2 amplification courtesy of SSJ2 wouldn't horrendously fractionalise him, Vegeta or Trunks (still easily disposable by Super Perfect Cell but they're not multiple dimensions separate from each other like, say, Krillin was on Namek against Freeza).

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Ssjcell » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:05 pm

Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:Piccolo could have afforded an impressive bolstering to Gohan's power. Would it allow Gohan to overpower Cell? Depends on how much of his power was robbed as a result of his arm being crippled. My own admittedly generous estimate for Piccolo is that his power might have equalled 1/4th of SSJ2 Gohan's during this time. So if Gohan's handicap wasn't much less than 25% of his original power then Piccolo alone could have provided the necessary strength to overcome Cell's Kamehameha or, at the very least, stalemate.

If this incident is happening after the Kamehameha duel has already begun and Vegeta has exhausted himself then the only other ones available that can supply power outside of Piccolo are Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha. You can see the flaw there already, can't you? Applying even the most generous projections for their power wouldn't allow them to match even 1/10th of the Android arc Super Saiyan power levels, let alone anything after the ROSAT has been used and beyond (this is coming from someone who tries to give the humans an impressive power boost and believes that Tenshinhan might have been within the realm of the Base Saiyans during the initial confrontation with the cyborgs). It would be like trying to squeeze blood from a turnip. The humans would be better off supplying their ki to Tenshinhan and then having him go to town on Cell once again with his Shin Kikoho.
Gohan was like 100 times stronger than piccolo cell before he reverts back to his raging semi self might have been 1/4 Gohan imo
You're free to believe that if you choose. My interpretation is that Piccolo was in the same league as Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell Games; weaker of course, but not by a large amount. All three of them could have exceeded half of MSSJ Goku's power, I think. Adding to that, I don't have the largest of disparities existing between Goku and his son (about a 20% gap). From there a x2 amplification courtesy of SSJ2 wouldn't horrendously fractionalise him, Vegeta or Trunks (still easily disposable by Super Perfect Cell but they're not multiple dimensions separate from each other like, say, Krillin was on Namek against Freeza).
Two times amplification is completely absurd screw the guide books it makes no sense Gohan went from being like 1/10 as strong as a suppressed cell getting stomped to absolutely destroying cell at full power it's like he got 50 x stronger than his super Saiyan self

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:08 pm

Is that even a thing in the main series?
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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Lionel » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:24 pm

Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote: Gohan was like 100 times stronger than piccolo cell before he reverts back to his raging semi self might have been 1/4 Gohan imo
You're free to believe that if you choose. My interpretation is that Piccolo was in the same league as Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell Games; weaker of course, but not by a large amount. All three of them could have exceeded half of MSSJ Goku's power, I think. Adding to that, I don't have the largest of disparities existing between Goku and his son (about a 20% gap). From there a x2 amplification courtesy of SSJ2 wouldn't horrendously fractionalise him, Vegeta or Trunks (still easily disposable by Super Perfect Cell but they're not multiple dimensions separate from each other like, say, Krillin was on Namek against Freeza).
Two times amplification is completely absurd screw the guide books it makes no sense Gohan went from being like 1/10 as strong as a suppressed cell getting stomped to absolutely destroying cell at full power it's like he got 50 x stronger than his super Saiyan self
1/10th? Do you mean MSSJ Gohan's initial fight with Cell? I don't personally think that Cell was only using the most minimal percentage of his power. Through his own words he confessed that Gohan was prompting him to use the full brunt of his speed gained from all of his strength in order to outpace Gohan and catch him before he could react. If such a gulf existed between their powers then it would have only required a moderate bolstering of his power in order to assume the dominant position of the fight once again.

My assumption is that Gohan and Cell's full strength disparity was likely in the neighbourhood of Vegeta and Recoome's gap. I don't have much of anything to verify this claim, though.

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Ssjcell » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:42 pm

Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
You're free to believe that if you choose. My interpretation is that Piccolo was in the same league as Vegeta and Trunks during the Cell Games; weaker of course, but not by a large amount. All three of them could have exceeded half of MSSJ Goku's power, I think. Adding to that, I don't have the largest of disparities existing between Goku and his son (about a 20% gap). From there a x2 amplification courtesy of SSJ2 wouldn't horrendously fractionalise him, Vegeta or Trunks (still easily disposable by Super Perfect Cell but they're not multiple dimensions separate from each other like, say, Krillin was on Namek against Freeza).
Two times amplification is completely absurd screw the guide books it makes no sense Gohan went from being like 1/10 as strong as a suppressed cell getting stomped to absolutely destroying cell at full power it's like he got 50 x stronger than his super Saiyan self
1/10th? Do you mean MSSJ Gohan's initial fight with Cell? I don't personally think that Cell was only using the most minimal percentage of his power. Through his own words he confessed that Gohan was prompting him to use the full brunt of his speed gained from all of his strength in order to outpace Gohan and catch him before he could react. If such a gulf existed between their powers then it would have only required a moderate bolstering of his power in order to assume the dominant position of the fight once again.

My assumption is that Gohan and Cell's full strength disparity was likely in the neighbourhood of Vegeta and Recoome's gap. I don't have much of anything to verify this claim, though.
I respect most of your views as they are usually a good read however I believe your completely off on the recoome I think of it as more like 50 % frieza and 100% frieza . Statements like you can't touch me kid. And cell wasn't even trying yet? Which isn't a statement to be fair but they all were in general amazed by cells full power including Goku who is usually a very good prognosticator was amazed and concerned for Gohan after he was a ss2 demonstrating Gohan's power was so great even Goku couldn't measure it

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Lionel » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:12 pm

Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote: Two times amplification is completely absurd screw the guide books it makes no sense Gohan went from being like 1/10 as strong as a suppressed cell getting stomped to absolutely destroying cell at full power it's like he got 50 x stronger than his super Saiyan self
1/10th? Do you mean MSSJ Gohan's initial fight with Cell? I don't personally think that Cell was only using the most minimal percentage of his power. Through his own words he confessed that Gohan was prompting him to use the full brunt of his speed gained from all of his strength in order to outpace Gohan and catch him before he could react. If such a gulf existed between their powers then it would have only required a moderate bolstering of his power in order to assume the dominant position of the fight once again.

My assumption is that Gohan and Cell's full strength disparity was likely in the neighbourhood of Vegeta and Recoome's gap. I don't have much of anything to verify this claim, though.
I respect most of your views as they are usually a good read however I believe your completely off on the recoome I think of it as more like 50 % frieza and 100% frieza . Statements like you can't touch me kid. And cell wasn't even trying yet? Which isn't a statement to be fair but they all were in general amazed by cells full power including Goku who is usually a very good prognosticator was amazed and concerned for Gohan after he was a ss2 demonstrating Gohan's power was so great even Goku couldn't measure it
Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it. Concerning your point, from what I'm reading of the manga, there's one panel depicting a vocal reaction from Krillin and Goku. Krillin is in astonishment, remarking about how Cell's power was making the entirety of the Earth to quiver (like this hasn't already occurred before with Nappa and Vegeta though), and Goku tensely acknowledged that they would finally witness Cell's full power. From my point of view, Cell's power was always something of a mystery in his final form. People were constantly making assumptions about what his full power might be like starting from #16 and they continually miscalculated it. For them to finally witness its utmost depths was likely going to surprise them due to the lack of a concrete answer before then.

Unsettled reactions, regardless if the gap may not be too big, aren't all that new, though. Remember Vegeta's flustered expression as he was reading Freeza's power growth in his first form? Both the tyrant and renegade eventually proved to be more or less in the same range with one another, but to feel that initial spike in power still bothered Vegeta. I don't mean to imply that MSSJ Gohan and Cell at full power were on-par. My point is that distressed reactions aren't limited to just chasmal gaps in power.

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Ssjcell » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:08 pm

Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
1/10th? Do you mean MSSJ Gohan's initial fight with Cell? I don't personally think that Cell was only using the most minimal percentage of his power. Through his own words he confessed that Gohan was prompting him to use the full brunt of his speed gained from all of his strength in order to outpace Gohan and catch him before he could react. If such a gulf existed between their powers then it would have only required a moderate bolstering of his power in order to assume the dominant position of the fight once again.

My assumption is that Gohan and Cell's full strength disparity was likely in the neighbourhood of Vegeta and Recoome's gap. I don't have much of anything to verify this claim, though.
I respect most of your views as they are usually a good read however I believe your completely off on the recoome I think of it as more like 50 % frieza and 100% frieza . Statements like you can't touch me kid. And cell wasn't even trying yet? Which isn't a statement to be fair but they all were in general amazed by cells full power including Goku who is usually a very good prognosticator was amazed and concerned for Gohan after he was a ss2 demonstrating Gohan's power was so great even Goku couldn't measure it
Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it. Concerning your point, from what I'm reading of the manga, there's one panel depicting a vocal reaction from Krillin and Goku. Krillin is in astonishment, remarking about how Cell's power was making the entirety of the Earth to quiver (like this hasn't already occurred before with Nappa and Vegeta though), and Goku tensely acknowledged that they would finally witness Cell's full power. From my point of view, Cell's power was always something of a mystery in his final form. People were constantly making assumptions about what his full power might be like starting from #16 and they continually miscalculated it. For them to finally witness its utmost depths was likely going to surprise them due to the lack of a concrete answer before then.

Unsettled reactions, regardless if the gap may not be too big, aren't all that new, though. Remember Vegeta's flustered expression as he was reading Freeza's power growth in his first form? Both the tyrant and renegade eventually proved to be more or less in the same range with one another, but to feel that initial spike in power still bothered Vegeta. I don't mean to imply that MSSJ Gohan and Cell at full power were on-par. My point is that distressed reactions aren't limited to just chasmal gaps in power.
Regarding your point about cells power being a mystery , cell has Saiyan dna my theory is that when he was born as perfect his power was less than when the cell games happened . He was stronger in the cell games as a result of training . His fights against Vegeta and trunks are excellent training. He trains in space in the anime not sure if it's in the manga. He probably trains alittle bit off screen in the wait for the cell games . Imagine how much progress frieza could make with minimal training in 10 days. Imagine a frieza with saiyan dna training for 10 days. It would be a plausible reason why everyone was constantly wrong about his power. He got stronger after the fight with Vegeta , then he got stronger after his fight with trunks , then he got stronger in the ten day wait for the cell games . That's my guess at least how I make sense of it.

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Lionel » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:26 pm

Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote: I respect most of your views as they are usually a good read however I believe your completely off on the recoome I think of it as more like 50 % frieza and 100% frieza . Statements like you can't touch me kid. And cell wasn't even trying yet? Which isn't a statement to be fair but they all were in general amazed by cells full power including Goku who is usually a very good prognosticator was amazed and concerned for Gohan after he was a ss2 demonstrating Gohan's power was so great even Goku couldn't measure it
Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it. Concerning your point, from what I'm reading of the manga, there's one panel depicting a vocal reaction from Krillin and Goku. Krillin is in astonishment, remarking about how Cell's power was making the entirety of the Earth to quiver (like this hasn't already occurred before with Nappa and Vegeta though), and Goku tensely acknowledged that they would finally witness Cell's full power. From my point of view, Cell's power was always something of a mystery in his final form. People were constantly making assumptions about what his full power might be like starting from #16 and they continually miscalculated it. For them to finally witness its utmost depths was likely going to surprise them due to the lack of a concrete answer before then.

Unsettled reactions, regardless if the gap may not be too big, aren't all that new, though. Remember Vegeta's flustered expression as he was reading Freeza's power growth in his first form? Both the tyrant and renegade eventually proved to be more or less in the same range with one another, but to feel that initial spike in power still bothered Vegeta. I don't mean to imply that MSSJ Gohan and Cell at full power were on-par. My point is that distressed reactions aren't limited to just chasmal gaps in power.
Regarding your point about cells power being a mystery , cell has Saiyan dna my theory is that when he was born as perfect his power was less than when the cell games happened . He was stronger in the cell games as a result of training . His fights against Vegeta and trunks are excellent training. He trains in space in the anime not sure if it's in the manga. He probably trains alittle bit off screen in the wait for the cell games . Imagine how much progress frieza could make with minimal training in 10 days. Imagine a frieza with saiyan dna training for 10 days. It would be a plausible reason why everyone was constantly wrong about his power. He got stronger after the fight with Vegeta , then he got stronger after his fight with trunks , then he got stronger in the ten day wait for the cell games . That's my guess at least how I make sense of it.
Well if that's true then the Saiyan genes coupled together with Freeza's "mutant" capacity and even Piccolo's Namekian physiology to an extent must have optimised his learning curve. I guess he might have executed some mental sparring with perhaps the sensed power of Goku. Can't see who else would pose a challenge to him in any capacity at that point outside of himself.

It's interesting you bring up space. This point is loosely related but I thought it was interesting how meteorites are portrayed as being an actionable form of sparring in the anime. Those materials can reach the upper atmospheres of the planet before burning up. Any of the Z-fighters that prefer a naturalistic method of training could always just fly up to where the meteorites are, couldn't they? We know Tenshinhan likes to train at very high altitudes. Why couldn't meteorites and frigid temperatures be used to rationalise having a high enough power level to reach the millions? His power still wouldn't be sufficient enough to amply bolster Gohan's Kamehameha efforts but it could at least serve as the foundation for his own reasoning of having such a powerful Kikoho or something.

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Ssjcell » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:08 pm

Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it. Concerning your point, from what I'm reading of the manga, there's one panel depicting a vocal reaction from Krillin and Goku. Krillin is in astonishment, remarking about how Cell's power was making the entirety of the Earth to quiver (like this hasn't already occurred before with Nappa and Vegeta though), and Goku tensely acknowledged that they would finally witness Cell's full power. From my point of view, Cell's power was always something of a mystery in his final form. People were constantly making assumptions about what his full power might be like starting from #16 and they continually miscalculated it. For them to finally witness its utmost depths was likely going to surprise them due to the lack of a concrete answer before then.

Unsettled reactions, regardless if the gap may not be too big, aren't all that new, though. Remember Vegeta's flustered expression as he was reading Freeza's power growth in his first form? Both the tyrant and renegade eventually proved to be more or less in the same range with one another, but to feel that initial spike in power still bothered Vegeta. I don't mean to imply that MSSJ Gohan and Cell at full power were on-par. My point is that distressed reactions aren't limited to just chasmal gaps in power.
Regarding your point about cells power being a mystery , cell has Saiyan dna my theory is that when he was born as perfect his power was less than when the cell games happened . He was stronger in the cell games as a result of training . His fights against Vegeta and trunks are excellent training. He trains in space in the anime not sure if it's in the manga. He probably trains alittle bit off screen in the wait for the cell games . Imagine how much progress frieza could make with minimal training in 10 days. Imagine a frieza with saiyan dna training for 10 days. It would be a plausible reason why everyone was constantly wrong about his power. He got stronger after the fight with Vegeta , then he got stronger after his fight with trunks , then he got stronger in the ten day wait for the cell games . That's my guess at least how I make sense of it.
Well if that's true then the Saiyan genes coupled together with Freeza's "mutant" capacity and even Piccolo's Namekian physiology to an extent must have optimised his learning curve. I guess he might have executed some mental sparring with perhaps the sensed power of Goku. Can't see who else would pose a challenge to him in any capacity at that point outside of himself.

It's interesting you bring up space. This point is loosely related but I thought it was interesting how meteorites are portrayed as being an actionable form of sparring in the anime. Those materials can reach the upper atmospheres of the planet before burning up. Any of the Z-fighters that prefer a naturalistic method of training could always just fly up to where the meteorites are, couldn't they? We know Tenshinhan likes to train at very high altitudes. Why couldn't meteorites and frigid temperatures be used to rationalise having a high enough power level to reach the millions? His power still wouldn't be sufficient enough to amply bolster Gohan's Kamehameha efforts but it could at least serve as the foundation for his own reasoning of having such a powerful Kikoho or something.
Yeah meteorites we're useful for Vegeta when he was about to turn ssj ... Cell was sparring with space rocks getting stronger wouldn't that be something if Goku was doing image training with cell for the whole 10 days in order to close the gap between Goku and gohan...he might have been trying to get cell stronger because of the power he sensed from Gohan in the time chamber ( how would that be any different from the senzu bean incident?) I think it was a big mistake for the humans to skip the time chamber for the reason of this topic every little bit of power can make a difference and Kuririn Gohan and piccolo already gave their ki to Goku vs frieza so it's a thing.

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Lionel » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:52 pm

Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote: Regarding your point about cells power being a mystery , cell has Saiyan dna my theory is that when he was born as perfect his power was less than when the cell games happened . He was stronger in the cell games as a result of training . His fights against Vegeta and trunks are excellent training. He trains in space in the anime not sure if it's in the manga. He probably trains alittle bit off screen in the wait for the cell games . Imagine how much progress frieza could make with minimal training in 10 days. Imagine a frieza with saiyan dna training for 10 days. It would be a plausible reason why everyone was constantly wrong about his power. He got stronger after the fight with Vegeta , then he got stronger after his fight with trunks , then he got stronger in the ten day wait for the cell games . That's my guess at least how I make sense of it.
Well if that's true then the Saiyan genes coupled together with Freeza's "mutant" capacity and even Piccolo's Namekian physiology to an extent must have optimised his learning curve. I guess he might have executed some mental sparring with perhaps the sensed power of Goku. Can't see who else would pose a challenge to him in any capacity at that point outside of himself.

It's interesting you bring up space. This point is loosely related but I thought it was interesting how meteorites are portrayed as being an actionable form of sparring in the anime. Those materials can reach the upper atmospheres of the planet before burning up. Any of the Z-fighters that prefer a naturalistic method of training could always just fly up to where the meteorites are, couldn't they? We know Tenshinhan likes to train at very high altitudes. Why couldn't meteorites and frigid temperatures be used to rationalise having a high enough power level to reach the millions? His power still wouldn't be sufficient enough to amply bolster Gohan's Kamehameha efforts but it could at least serve as the foundation for his own reasoning of having such a powerful Kikoho or something.
Yeah meteorites we're useful for Vegeta when he was about to turn ssj ... Cell was sparring with space rocks getting stronger wouldn't that be something if Goku was doing image training with cell for the whole 10 days in order to close the gap between Goku and gohan...he might have been trying to get cell stronger because of the power he sensed from Gohan in the time chamber ( how would that be any different from the senzu bean incident?) I think it was a big mistake for the humans to skip the time chamber for the reason of this topic every little bit of power can make a difference and Kuririn Gohan and piccolo already gave their ki to Goku vs frieza so it's a thing.
It's missed opportunities all around. Kaioken is one of the most obvious. Super Saiyan would net the larger boost in power but surely a combination of ROSAT training and Kaioken could have at least served as usable power support to help raise strength Gohan a bit. As an alternative, I'm picturing Tenshinhan with a resurged Shin Kikoho x20 with the collective energies of the other humans. Piccolo could donate his power to Gohan and Tenshinhan would make a poignant callback to the the Semi-Perfect Cell subdual only this time it's actually proving to be a crucial factor in dislodging Cell's foothold so that Gohan can seize the initiative. Vegeta already does this but... Well this topic is about alternative scenarios.

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Ssjcell » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:12 pm

Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Well if that's true then the Saiyan genes coupled together with Freeza's "mutant" capacity and even Piccolo's Namekian physiology to an extent must have optimised his learning curve. I guess he might have executed some mental sparring with perhaps the sensed power of Goku. Can't see who else would pose a challenge to him in any capacity at that point outside of himself.

It's interesting you bring up space. This point is loosely related but I thought it was interesting how meteorites are portrayed as being an actionable form of sparring in the anime. Those materials can reach the upper atmospheres of the planet before burning up. Any of the Z-fighters that prefer a naturalistic method of training could always just fly up to where the meteorites are, couldn't they? We know Tenshinhan likes to train at very high altitudes. Why couldn't meteorites and frigid temperatures be used to rationalise having a high enough power level to reach the millions? His power still wouldn't be sufficient enough to amply bolster Gohan's Kamehameha efforts but it could at least serve as the foundation for his own reasoning of having such a powerful Kikoho or something.
Yeah meteorites we're useful for Vegeta when he was about to turn ssj ... Cell was sparring with space rocks getting stronger wouldn't that be something if Goku was doing image training with cell for the whole 10 days in order to close the gap between Goku and gohan...he might have been trying to get cell stronger because of the power he sensed from Gohan in the time chamber ( how would that be any different from the senzu bean incident?) I think it was a big mistake for the humans to skip the time chamber for the reason of this topic every little bit of power can make a difference and Kuririn Gohan and piccolo already gave their ki to Goku vs frieza so it's a thing.
It's missed opportunities all around. Kaioken is one of the most obvious. Super Saiyan would net the larger boost in power but surely a combination of ROSAT training and Kaioken could have at least served as usable power support to help raise strength Gohan a bit. As an alternative, I'm picturing Tenshinhan with a resurged Shin Kikoho x20 with the collective energies of the other humans. Piccolo could donate his power to Gohan and Tenshinhan would make a poignant callback to the the Semi-Perfect Cell subdual only this time it's actually proving to be a crucial factor in dislodging Cell's foothold so that Gohan can seize the initiative. Vegeta already does this but... Well this topic is about alternative scenarios.
It's good to stay on topic but if we can delve into the story with concrete analysis and a meaningful discussion who is that harming . Yeah if Goku went into the time chamber with Kuririn for an hour teach kaioken and the same with Tien and yamcha he could have made them at least last longer against the cell Juniors and also when they lend power to Gohan / shoot blasts at cell it could have made a difference and what if the humans could gather ki from each Galaxy to form 4 spirit bombs . That could have been a potential attack...

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Lionel » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:32 pm

Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote: Yeah meteorites we're useful for Vegeta when he was about to turn ssj ... Cell was sparring with space rocks getting stronger wouldn't that be something if Goku was doing image training with cell for the whole 10 days in order to close the gap between Goku and gohan...he might have been trying to get cell stronger because of the power he sensed from Gohan in the time chamber ( how would that be any different from the senzu bean incident?) I think it was a big mistake for the humans to skip the time chamber for the reason of this topic every little bit of power can make a difference and Kuririn Gohan and piccolo already gave their ki to Goku vs frieza so it's a thing.
It's missed opportunities all around. Kaioken is one of the most obvious. Super Saiyan would net the larger boost in power but surely a combination of ROSAT training and Kaioken could have at least served as usable power support to help raise strength Gohan a bit. As an alternative, I'm picturing Tenshinhan with a resurged Shin Kikoho x20 with the collective energies of the other humans. Piccolo could donate his power to Gohan and Tenshinhan would make a poignant callback to the the Semi-Perfect Cell subdual only this time it's actually proving to be a crucial factor in dislodging Cell's foothold so that Gohan can seize the initiative. Vegeta already does this but... Well this topic is about alternative scenarios.
It's good to stay on topic but if we can delve into the story with concrete analysis and a meaningful discussion who is that harming . Yeah if Goku went into the time chamber with Kuririn for an hour teach kaioken and the same with Tien and yamcha he could have made them at least last longer against the cell Juniors and also when they lend power to Gohan / shoot blasts at cell it could have made a difference and what if the humans could gather ki from each Galaxy to form 4 spirit bombs . That could have been a potential attack...
Come to think of it, what was stopping Tenshinhan or Krillin from using the Taiyoken in order to blind Cell? They wouldn't have even needed to train to accomplish something like that. Talk about a missed opportunity there.

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Re: Would SSJ2 Son Gohan Have Defeated SPC Easier If His Allies Gave Him Their Reserves of Ki?

Post by Ssjcell » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:11 pm

Lionel wrote:
Ssjcell wrote:
Lionel wrote:
It's missed opportunities all around. Kaioken is one of the most obvious. Super Saiyan would net the larger boost in power but surely a combination of ROSAT training and Kaioken could have at least served as usable power support to help raise strength Gohan a bit. As an alternative, I'm picturing Tenshinhan with a resurged Shin Kikoho x20 with the collective energies of the other humans. Piccolo could donate his power to Gohan and Tenshinhan would make a poignant callback to the the Semi-Perfect Cell subdual only this time it's actually proving to be a crucial factor in dislodging Cell's foothold so that Gohan can seize the initiative. Vegeta already does this but... Well this topic is about alternative scenarios.
It's good to stay on topic but if we can delve into the story with concrete analysis and a meaningful discussion who is that harming . Yeah if Goku went into the time chamber with Kuririn for an hour teach kaioken and the same with Tien and yamcha he could have made them at least last longer against the cell Juniors and also when they lend power to Gohan / shoot blasts at cell it could have made a difference and what if the humans could gather ki from each Galaxy to form 4 spirit bombs . That could have been a potential attack...
Come to think of it, what was stopping Tenshinhan or Krillin from using the Taiyoken in order to blind Cell? They wouldn't have even needed to train to accomplish something like that. Talk about a missed opportunity there.
Goku could have used it too , cell was a nearly invincible force he was not only a prodigy fighter skill wise and potential wise he could regenerate and use instant transmission , a total villian who believed he couldn't even die. If cell gets past Gohan there's nothing to stop him from enslaving the z squad and the world . He could have made them all wear dresses , either way goku's plan worked and Gohan defeated cell saved the Earth and banged Mr satans daughter

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