Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

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Akamay
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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Akamay » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:07 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:36 am
You don't necessarily need to address anyone other than Trunks and Kaioshin of Time. Demigra, Mechikabura and everyone else are Dimps creations (except Mira, Towa and Fu, but even them can be replaced). You can use them or come up with new villain(s) to counter the Time Patrol. Time Patroller Trunks is not different than Future Trunks from Dragon Ball Super. As Trunks goes to his new timeline, Kaioshin of Time summons him and make him a Time Patroller (or that's what should have happened, as a matter of fact).

I still don't see how this is convoluted, by the way.
The moment you bring time travel and changing the past, it kinda becomes convoluted. Think about what happened in Xenoverse: something happens, is detected and then you go solve it. But sometimes the changes in the timeline are made quite early, only to see it affect a main part of the story later on. This would mean that the characters would need to locate the exact point where the changes were made. Given how much back and forth this would be, things could get out of hand easily.
Just look at how the Zamasu arc from Super needed a graph just to explain how the timelines worked.

You could come up with a bunch of new stuff and use the same themes, yes.
But the current stuff with Chronoa fighting Mechikabura in the past sealing him away, Towa and Mira recruiting a bunch of other Makaioshins to help revive him, them manipulating Bardock, King Vegeta, and Broly to fight for them, Dende being controlled to make the Dark Dragon Balls, etc. It is pretty convoluted imo.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:41 pm

Akamay wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:07 pm
The moment you bring time travel and changing the past, it kinda becomes convoluted. Think about what happened in Xenoverse: something happens, is detected and then you go solve it. But sometimes the changes in the timeline are made quite early, only to see it affect a main part of the story later on. This would mean that the characters would need to locate the exact point where the changes were made. Given how much back and forth this would be, things could get out of hand easily.
Just look at how the Zamasu arc from Super needed a graph just to explain how the timelines worked.
But that's where lies the intrigue, the mystery and the fun. Going to the exact point where the change was made all the time becomes repetitive eventually, you need other ways, create a problem for the characters to solve and etc. XV2 dealed with that by the way, in that mission where you go to help Nail in his fight against Freeza, they realized something was already off and then you had to go back in time a little further.
Akamay wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:07 pm
You could come up with a bunch of new stuff and use the same themes, yes.
But the current stuff with Chronoa fighting Mechikabura in the past sealing him away, Towa and Mira recruiting a bunch of other Makaioshins to help revive him, them manipulating Bardock, King Vegeta, and Broly to fight for them, Dende being controlled to make the Dark Dragon Balls, etc. It is pretty convoluted imo.
Again, all this stuff is what Dragon Ball Heroes did. You don't necessarily need to do all that, and most certainly if Toriyama were to touch that concept, he would do everything differently (I would only hope for him to keep Mira, Towa, Fu and Bardock, which are stuff from Dragon Ball Online that "need" to remain intact).

Dealing with alternate dimension is an easier thing to do and to understand than dealing with time travel seen in the series, thus I can't really say it's "convoluted", it's more like "fascinating".

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Akamay
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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Akamay » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:14 am

Grimlock wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:41 pm
But that's where lies the intrigue, the mystery and the fun. Going to the exact point where the change was made all the time becomes repetitive eventually, you need other ways, create a problem for the characters to solve and etc. XV2 dealed with that by the way, in that mission where you go to help Nail in his fight against Freeza, they realized something was already off and then you had to go back in time a little further.
Yes, that is fun for a game, but to watch it in a TV series? Not quite sure. I mean, they can make it work, I just don't know if they can do this without dragging the pace down.

Grimlock wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:41 pm
Again, all this stuff is what Dragon Ball Heroes did. You don't necessarily need to do all that, and most certainly if Toriyama were to touch that concept, he would do everything differently (I would only hope for him to keep Mira, Towa, Fu and Bardock, which are stuff from Dragon Ball Online that "need" to remain intact).

Dealing with alternate dimension is an easier thing to do and to understand than dealing with time travel seen in the series, thus I can't really say it's "convoluted", it's more like "fascinating".
I don't doubt that Toriyama could do something cool with those characters, but the whole storyline is somewhat already influed by stuff that he wrote before. It'd be good to not bring the concepts again for a while so Toriyama can tackle it with some fresh eyes.

As for me calling everything "convoluted", that is mainly my opinion, if yours is different great. I don't think you'll convince me that it is not nor will I convince you that it is. Send me a DM if you want to keep talking about this though, I wouldn't mind, but we're kinda derailing the topic a bit.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:22 pm

Son Dragon wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:07 am
Android 21. :

ImageImage
I'd like to see her wrapped up in a movie that explores the red ribbon army's past and also includes some versions of Android 13 , 14, 15 (Redesigned of course, because outside of 13 their current design could use some work) General Red as Android 9 would be a nice throw back too.). Plus think it could be tied together well with Oomori's story with why he built the time travel machine from Dragon Ball Minus by Paralleling it against Dr. Gero struggles with 21 & Android 16.

Image

Someday Somehow:

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Turles & Shallot: Maybe not a movie about them but surely they could sneak him in Dragon Ball's past somwhere. We had everyone else in the movie so why not them too.

Towa & Mira & The Supreme Kai of Time: Dragon Ball Online was a nice revival for the series so maybe something to honor that would be nice. As for the Supreme Kai of Time well I like her cute personalily.

Honorary

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Goku Jr. : Because he deserves it.

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And finally Pasta from Blood Ruby who also needs some recognition as one of Dragon Ball's first female villians
towa would be a good idea probably one of the best characters in video games of DB
A - 21 arrives a bit late for me ... she must have shared a "saga" with zamasu, but it is possible
Goku Jr why? is another goku more ... with the gohan's personality but much more crying ...

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:20 pm

I have a few ideas for a Tullece movie that I would love some feedback on. It's not a complete summary yet, but this is enough content for one hour: https://pastebin.com/raw/JypHbGDY
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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:14 pm

My bias fanboyism wants Cell to come back.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by sintzu » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:09 am

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:14 pm
My bias fanboyism wants Cell to come back.
You could just re-watch the Cell arc instead.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:39 pm

sintzu wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:09 am

You could just re-watch the Cell arc instead.
But that wouldn't satisfy my bias fanboyism.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:46 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:39 pm
sintzu wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:09 am

You could just re-watch the Cell arc instead.
But that wouldn't satisfy my bias fanboyism.
You can look at DB heroes so .. they made a golden cooler and gohan ssj4 it would not be anything strange that they bring to cell with a new transformation

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Grimlock » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:10 pm

sintzu wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:09 am
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:14 pm
My bias fanboyism wants Cell to come back.
You could just re-watch the Cell arc instead.
We could have just re-watched Freeza saga instead, but we had to have that movie.
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:46 pm
You can look at DB heroes so ..
Cell was recently used in the SDBH2 mission, where he was possessed by one of the Dark Dragon Balls. He didn't get any new transformation (well, not for those who know Dragon Ball Online), but his presence is recent.

Not saying that would stop Heroes from using Cell, we'll just have to wait for when it will decide to use him again, which I don't think it'll happen soon. Not that Golden Cooler and Gohan as Super Saiyan 4 are out of the realm of possibilities by the way, both characters can get those forms just fine.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by sintzu » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:11 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:10 pm
We could have just re-watched Freeza saga instead, but we had to have that movie.
Exactly. I don't think the idea of bringing someone back is in itself a bad idea but so far with the times they've done it (Freeza, Trunks, & Broly), they haven't done anything to justify bringing someone old back.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Tai Lung » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:13 am

I remember it but some did not like it very much
sintzu wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:11 pm
Grimlock wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:10 pm
We could have just re-watched Freeza saga instead, but we had to have that movie.
Exactly. I don't think the idea of bringing someone back is in itself a bad idea but so far with the times they've done it (Freeza, Trunks, & Broly), they haven't done anything to justify bringing someone old back.
the subplot of timeline was closed.
it had been a end open by the appearance of buu arc.

actually having a frieza in the tournament was interesting besides that the character was relevant in th end but maybe there was a better way to increase the power to frieza without ROF arc.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Super Murjin » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:52 pm

I would say no more canonizing previous characters like Coola, Janemba, Hildegarn or Tapion.
Also don't canonize Super Saiyan 4 either. Keep it a GT thing.

Super and any other show or series that comes after that should focus on new villains, new characters and new ideas.

The only thing I would bring back would be the concept of a shenlong/dragon ball conflict similar to the Shadow Dragon Arc. However, I would make it a multi-universal threat. Involve all characters like Jiren, Toppo, Hit, Z fighters, Grand Priest, Uub, Zeno, Beerus, Kale, etc. And bring in Zalama. The concept and idea of the dragon balls being the threat is brilliant. GT made the saga way too short and most of the dragons were lame except for Omega Shenron and the ice and fire dragons. If Toriyama/Toyotaro/Toei come up with a saga that is thee grand epic that will not only be long and well written involving the dragon balls as the enemy, then that would be awesome.

Final thought, what if the earth's dragon balls, name's dragon balls and the super dragon balls all became evil at the same time? So 21 evil dragons? It would be mayhem. But now thinking about it a little further, the super dragon balls can grant any wish which means they could potentially harm Zeno, Grand Priest, the Angels and the G.O.D. Imagine if Super Shenron split into 7 separate entities. They would be insanely powerful.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:19 pm

I've always liked the idea of a planet being sucked dry by a giant evil tree ever since I saw Movie 3. And with Gods of Destruction, and the Fruit being said to have been for the Gods, the Seed and Tree of Might sounds like a good tool for Beerus or Champa.
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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:01 pm

I would be completely at ease if they brought Tullece back because the concept of an Evil Goku is appealing to me, and every attempt besides Tullece was a case of "someone steals Goku's body for nefarious purposes." I dunno, that always felt just a bit cheap to me when all I wanted was a full-fledged "What if Kakarot?"

But at the same time, my idea of what constitutes an 'Evil Goku' is a bit deeper than "He looks like Goku but kills people indiscriminately." Tullece appealed to me precisely because he genuinely was like the Goku we knew, but without any humanity— after all, his backstory was that he managed to gather a load of underlings. They weren't appointed to him or employed by him like with Garlic Jr., Slug, or Cooler and they weren't created by him like Dr. Gero. He genuinely found them, just like Son Goku found his friends, and they tagged along. I think it was that realization that Tullece did such a thing that sold me on him more than the other movie villains when, before, I thought him to be the most generic of the bunch.

That would set up something like a matter vs. antimatter clash, with the Zetto Senshi. It's the closest thing I can think of to a sort of "rival school" a la old kung fu movies that Dragon Ball can possibly do these days without going into the Demon Realm. Rather than making him the literal polar opposite of everything Goku is, make him what Goku could have been if he had been completely without any tender humanity, whether from Gohan or Gine. It would still fit with his established character.

That said, I've thought about this topic before and I can come up with fairly solid reasons for reintroducing several of the movie characters, if in altered forms. For example: Garlic Jr. would be a fantastic segue into a Demon Realm arc or Dragon Ball's answer to Yu Yu Hakusho's Dark Tournament. Ultra-buff his Super Makyan form to make it rival that of Super Saiyan God. What's more, perhaps have it that his demonic ki can nerf god ki to make him an actual threat, something that spamming Super Kaioken Blue x 20 or Ultra Instinct can't overcome.


Maybe it's my history as a (former) Sonic fan, as I've become of the mind that you shouldn't just keep adding characters if there are already characters there to use, especially if a new character you're adding is basically just a previous character with a new name. Broly has shown that the movie characters can fit in canon if tweaked; thus, we now about 15 other movies' worth of potential characters to use. If you want someone to bring us into the Demon Realm, you could always just use Garlic Jr. rather than coming up with someone who might as well be Garlic Jr. Just as it was a better idea (in retrospect) to reuse Broly than create a new Saiyan who might as well have been Broly.
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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by sintzu » Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:06 am

Yuli Ban wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:01 pm
It was a better idea (in retrospect) to reuse Broly than create a new Saiyan who might as well have been Broly.
You mean like Kale ?
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:24 am

Yuli Ban wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:01 pm
Broly has shown that the movie characters can fit in canon if tweaked;
That's just one way of introducing old characters in the series (not saying there is a canon, though).
Yuli Ban wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:01 pm
If you want someone to bring us into the Demon Realm, you could always just use Garlic Jr. rather than coming up with someone who might as well be Garlic Jr.
I have watched Movie 1 just once a long time ago and haven't finished his saga, so can you tell me what's the connection between Demon Realm and Garlic Junior?

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by superfan2024 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:41 am

Give us canon Janemba revised by Toriyama and let us have a universal battle for a huge arc.

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by Super Murjin » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:28 pm

superfan2024 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:41 am
Give us canon Janemba revised by Toriyama and let us have a universal battle for a huge arc.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: Who Should Return Or Be Canonized Next?

Post by sintzu » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:41 am

Super Murjin wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:28 pm
superfan2024 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:41 am
Let us have a universal battle for a huge arc.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Didn't we just get that in the tournament of power ?
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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