Trunks vs King Cold

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:59 am

Eppy, I'm not meaning to get off-topic, but I'm just curious to know why you hate Trunks.

Epsilon Grey · Post by **Epsilon Grey** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:22 am

Because he owes me money.

Well, really because he has purple hair (it makes no sense), and because he only shows up to cause problems (bearer of bad news) and because...well...I guess it's an irrational hatred. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Harumph.

--EG

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:32 am

Epsilon Grey wrote:Because he owes me money.

Well, really because he has purple hair (it makes no sense), and because he only shows up to cause problems (bearer of bad news) and because...well...I guess it's an irrational hatred. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Harumph.

--EG

Actually, his purple hair makes some sense. ._. Veggie's hair is black and Bulma's is blue. Which would somewhat mix to make purple.

Epsilon Grey · Post by **Epsilon Grey** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:50 am

No! Purple hair is wrong! W-R-O-N-G, even more so because I spelled it out.

And it makes no sense to me, and because I am absolute, and all things are relative to me, it makes no sense.

I hath spoken. Take heed.

--EG

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:01 am

Epsilon Grey wrote:No! Purple hair is wrong! W-R-O-N-G, even more so because I spelled it out.

And it makes no sense to me, and because I am absolute, and all things are relative to me, it makes no sense.

I hath spoken. Take heed.

--EG

Would you please explain how it is wrong? It more or less makes sense to me.

Ryu · Post by **Ryu** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:16 am

I think he's trying to go down the science route. Dominate gene etc. You either inherit black or blue hair from the parent, you can’t mix it.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:36 am

Ryu wrote:I think he's trying to go down the science route. Dominate gene etc. You either inherit black or blue hair from the parent, you can’t mix it.

Ah, but in Toriyama's version, Bulma's hair has always been purple, hence Trunks' hair color.

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:08 am

Deus ex Machina wrote:
Ryu wrote:I think he's trying to go down the science route. Dominate gene etc. You either inherit black or blue hair from the parent, you can’t mix it.
Ah, but in Toriyama's version, Bulma's hair has always been purple, hence Trunks' hair color.

@_@ Bulma's hair is quite possibly one of the most inconsistent things in DB EVER.

But let's save that for later.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:45 am

Cool things about seeing King Cold transform would be:

A) Dramatic tension to the point of explosion. ("He killed Freeza so easily, now he's holding his own against someone STRONGER than Freeza...WHO TRANSFORMED?!")

B) We see Cold fight. C'mon, who doesn't want to see him fight at least a bit?!

C) Trunks could make snide remarks about how King Cold in form 2 (or 3, whichever it'd be) is only as strong as ONE of the two cyborgs he fights on a daily basis, and that he fights them at the same time.

D) Goku returns and kills Cold. Trunks remarks "That's how strong he is?!" (allusion to Mirai Bulma's remarks) -> He therefore gains new hope since Goku is at this level BEFORE training for 3 years.

E) It would make more sense as to why #17 and #18 are stronger in the manga timeline than in Trunks'

F) It would inspire Trunks to train. I mean c'mon! He's AS strong as Goku (at the most) and then expects to be able to kick #17+#18's asses when he's at the same level? (As Trunks only hopped 3 years into the manga's future)

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:08 pm

I always figured he went home for three years, couldn't beat the Androids on his own, saw that history wasn't changing, and so went back to when the Androids appeared in hopes of giving them some more help.

So, the Trunks that killed Frieza and Cold was 17 yr old Trunks and the one helping them fight the Androids would have been 20 yr old Trunks.

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:10 pm

Xyex wrote:I always figured he went home for three years, couldn't beat the Androids on his own, saw that history wasn't changing, and so went back to when the Androids appeared in hopes of giving them some more help.

So, the Trunks that killed Freeza and Cold was 17 yr old Trunks and the one helping them fight the Androids would have been 20 yr old Trunks.

O.o;; Trunks's future was never changed at all by what he did in the past. His time remained unaffected while new futures were created by what he did in the past.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:48 pm

Yes, yes, I know this. But when he first showed up, and then again when he first mentioned you couldn't change the past, I got the impression that he and Bulma hadn't figured that out the first time he went back. Which means that when he got home he would have, at first, expected things to change in someway. Then, when they didn't, Bulma would have theroized about the 'alternate time-lines' and he would have gone back to check it out, lend the others a hand, and find a way to deal with the Androids in his time.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:55 pm

Dayspring wrote:Cool things about seeing King Cold transform would be:

A) Dramatic tension to the point of explosion. ("He killed Freeza so easily, now he's holding his own against someone STRONGER than Freeza...WHO TRANSFORMED?!")

I do get that, but I just think it would be repeating the same point that had already been made by Trunks' easy victory over Freezer. Do we need to have another Dramatic Fight just to make the same point again?

This is going slightly off topic, but it's one of those things that has always bugged me...

E) It would make more sense as to why #17 and #18 are stronger in the manga timeline than in Trunks'

Is there any proof of this at all? I know that someone says it, but what happens on screen really doesn't seem to bare this out. Future #17 and #18 stood up to a Gohan who had been Super Saiyan for at least 10 years (and had no doubt trained in that time). That's pretty strong. Do the present day artificial humans do anything that shows them to be stronger?

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:06 pm

PsyLiam wrote:
E) It would make more sense as to why #17 and #18 are stronger in the manga timeline than in Trunks'
Is there any proof of this at all? I know that someone says it, but what happens on screen really doesn't seem to bare this out. Future #17 and #18 stood up to a Gohan who had been Super Saiyan for at least 10 years (and had no doubt trained in that time). That's pretty strong. Do the present day artificial humans do anything that shows them to be stronger?

Trunks said that he was able to fight the "Artificial Humans" from the future by himself for a short period of time. The versions of #17 and #18 from the altered timeline are too powerful for Trunks to even touch. I think that's basically the only canon evidence available indicating that the "Artificial Humans" from the future are any weaker than the ones from the timeline shown in the manga.

Personally, I've always thought that it's rather flimsy evidence, since the future versions of #17 and #18 say that they were only using 50% of their strength to fight Gohan before they kill him. They could have been toying with Trunks, too.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:23 pm

Freeza's transformations were exponential, no? Well, I shudder to think how powerful Cold would be if he transformed into his third form. It's possible that when he hit his fourth he might even have been a match for Perfect Cell.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:31 pm

James R. Cadwell wrote:
PsyLiam wrote:
E) It would make more sense as to why #17 and #18 are stronger in the manga timeline than in Trunks'
Is there any proof of this at all? I know that someone says it, but what happens on screen really doesn't seem to bare this out. Future #17 and #18 stood up to a Gohan who had been Super Saiyan for at least 10 years (and had no doubt trained in that time). That's pretty strong. Do the present day artificial humans do anything that shows them to be stronger?
Trunks said that he was able to fight the "Artificial Humans" from the future by himself for a short period of time. The versions of #17 and #18 from the altered timeline are too powerful for Trunks to even touch. I think that's basically the only canon evidence available indicating that the "Artificial Humans" from the future are any weaker than the ones from the timeline shown in the manga.

Personally, I've always thought that it's rather flimsy evidence, since the future versions of #17 and #18 say that they were only using 50% of their strength to fight Gohan before they kill him. They could have been toying with Trunks, too.

What about Trunks's sword? It simply shatters when he hits the present day Androids with it even though it worked fine on the future versions of them.

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:36 pm

Xyex wrote:
James R. Cadwell wrote:
PsyLiam wrote: Is there any proof of this at all? I know that someone says it, but what happens on screen really doesn't seem to bare this out. Future #17 and #18 stood up to a Gohan who had been Super Saiyan for at least 10 years (and had no doubt trained in that time). That's pretty strong. Do the present day artificial humans do anything that shows them to be stronger?
Trunks said that he was able to fight the "Artificial Humans" from the future by himself for a short period of time. The versions of #17 and #18 from the altered timeline are too powerful for Trunks to even touch. I think that's basically the only canon evidence available indicating that the "Artificial Humans" from the future are any weaker than the ones from the timeline shown in the manga.

Personally, I've always thought that it's rather flimsy evidence, since the future versions of #17 and #18 say that they were only using 50% of their strength to fight Gohan before they kill him. They could have been toying with Trunks, too.
What about Trunks's sword? It simply shatters when he hits the present day Androids with it even though it worked fine on the future versions of them.

IIRC, we never canonically see Trunks use his sword on the "Artificial Humans" from the future.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:49 pm

Where the fuck did "canon" come from?! Just use the word "official" damn it!

That said: what would happen if Freeza transformed a fourth time? 60 million PL! Booyah!

James R. Cadwell · Post by **James R. Cadwell** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 9:58 pm

Dayspring wrote:Where the fuck did "canon" come from?! Just use the word "official" damn it!

Canon describes information originating directly from the source material, which is the DB manga in this case. "Official" is a little nebulous and could describe pretty much anything licensed that features the DB characters -- the Daizenshuu, the Toei movies, etc.

Dayspring wrote:That said: what would happen if Freeza transformed a fourth time? 60 million PL! Booyah!

I don't know. Freeza's transformations seemed fairly inconsistant in the way that they multiplied his power. He might only wind up with 24 million.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:05 pm

In the way that the Star Wars novels are "official", but aren't "canon".

If we had to guess how strong a hypothetical fifth-form Freeza would be, we might as well use fifth-form Cooler as a guide.

Kanzenshuu

Trunks vs King Cold

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