How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

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How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:00 pm

I mean, really? Goku goes from matching universe-sized quakes to being nearly killed from a ring laser to the chest? How is it that a stupid, extremely common sci-fi weapon could bring a Godly Saiyan to his feet??? Does durability in DB work necessarily the same for everything or is it actually rather specific to what it can handle?
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Lord Frieza » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:14 pm

theherodjl wrote:I mean, really? Goku goes from matching universe-sized quakes to being nearly killed from a ring laser to the chest? How is it that a stupid, extremely common sci-fi weapon could bring a Godly Saiyan to his feet??? Does durability in DB work necessarily the same for everything or is it actually rather specific to what it can handle?
Durability in the db universe seems to be linked to ki. Most of the caste us it to strenthen their bodies and increase their duability. For example, in good health and with his witts about him, you could never cut Vegeta with a sword like Yajirobe did. But in a weakend state and caught off guard, well we saw the results. Saiyan's do have super human duability to a digree, most guns used on earth at the time Goku was a kid could only scratch and bruise him at most (outside of comidic moments) and other races are show to have very high duability even when they are not that strong, see the U9 Warrior Chappil who could tank punchs from base Goku. This is also why character in a weakened state can be killed by pretty much anyone when not 5 minutes ago they were taking punchs that would have levelled mountains.

Without his ki to protect him, Goku's body simple isne't that durable.

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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:26 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:Without his ki to protect him, Goku's body simple isne't that durable.
Even with Ki, Goku experienced great pain while taking Hit's vital-point attacks and even had his heart stop for a minute. That's probably why he lost Death Battle round 2 against Superman, his skin & muscle tissue are super durable but his organs are apparently not.
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Lord Frieza » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:33 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:Without his ki to protect him, Goku's body simple isne't that durable.
Even with Ki, Goku experienced great pain while taking Hit's vital-point attacks and even had his heart stop for a minute. That's probably why he lost Death Battle round 2 against Superman, his skin & muscle tissue are super durable but his organs are apparently not.
I will say that even with ehanced durability, vital points are... well vital. They are structural weak spots in your body that when hit cause mor damage. Even if you boosted your durability being hit in a vital spot will hurt more.

Side note this is also another thing that can get Giant characters into trouble. Their vital spots are larger and easier to hit despite their increased size and strength.

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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:44 pm

Basically, super durability, like all other aspects of combat based on Ki enhancement, must be actively maintained and utilized.

Even experienced martial artists like Son Goku can occasionally leave themselves vulnerable due to not being aware enough to evade or defend against surprise hits. It's why the concept of a "solid blow" was used so frequently in the Tournament of Power. If you don't actively block or brace to tank a blow, your defenses likely won't hold out and you'll take damage even if your opponent is much weaker than you are.

There isn't really a tangible threshold or rulebook for this, either. If you see it coming and have strong enough Ki defenses, you can have a very small power advantage over your opponent and easily tank their direct blows. But other times, you could be many many times stronger and still be left winded because you didn't bother protecting yourself against a weaker opponent's attacks.

It all depends on awareness, body type, and martial arts skill.

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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:54 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:
theherodjl wrote:I mean, really? Goku goes from matching universe-sized quakes to being nearly killed from a ring laser to the chest? How is it that a stupid, extremely common sci-fi weapon could bring a Godly Saiyan to his feet??? Does durability in DB work necessarily the same for everything or is it actually rather specific to what it can handle?
Durability in the db universe seems to be linked to ki. Most of the caste us it to strenthen their bodies and increase their duability. For example, in good health and with his witts about him, you could never cut Vegeta with a sword like Yajirobe did. But in a weakend state and caught off guard, well we saw the results. Saiyan's do have super human duability to a digree, most guns used on earth at the time Goku was a kid could only scratch and bruise him at most (outside of comidic moments) and other races are show to have very high duability even when they are not that strong, see the U9 Warrior Chappil who could tank punchs from base Goku. This is also why character in a weakened state can be killed by pretty much anyone when not 5 minutes ago they were taking punchs that would have levelled mountains.

Without his ki to protect him, Goku's body simple isne't that durable.
Pretty Much this, it is what really sets apart DB Characters from other characters in other Franchisees.

Characters like Superman or The Thing from the Fantastic Four always have their durability high cause it is a nature part of the physiological, they don't have really put any energy into it. Saiyans and other Ki users always in DB lore by my view where only as strong and as durably as how much key or in funnier terms, how serious they where taking their opponents when fighting. If a fighter was holding back to make the fight fun or tease a fighter like Perfect Cell did to Vegeta, by keeping their power lower they also keep themselves more vulnerable to lesser attacks that would not match them if they where at full strength, like how cell got hurt by the Final Flash. It is like when Krillian threw a rock at Goku in the Cell saga and it hurt Goku cause even being in SSJ form Goku was in a relaxed state and likely had his power level down low to near nothing, opening him to be hurt by things what would never even catch his attain if he was at full power.

Just like with Strength of a Punch, Speed and Ki Blasts, it mostly comes down to how much power you are putting out that determines how much you can take. 8)
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:38 pm

This is also part of why Ultra Instinct is such a powerful technique - you can never get caught off-guard, as your guard is always up, and you react without even having to think.

I recall a part from the anime (it might have just been the dub, though) from the scene where Krillin was about to throw the rock at Goku, he thought to himself something like 'Goku will probably just blast it away without even moving/realizing it' - if you look at that comment in retrospect, Krillin pretty much just described Ultra Instinct.
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:54 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:This is also part of why Ultra Instinct is such a powerful technique - you can never get caught off-guard, as your guard is always up, and you react without even having to think.

I recall a part from the anime (it might have just been the dub, though) from the scene where Krillin was about to throw the rock at Goku, he thought to himself something like 'Goku will probably just blast it away without even moving/realizing it' - if you look at that comment in retrospect, Krillin pretty much just described Ultra Instinct.
How about the scene way back when Goku first met Popo and was told to "clear your mind and move as fast as lightning"? The anime followed it up by having Goku face a doll version of himself with the exact same strength as him but he got beat by it several times since he couldn't properly react to it at breakbeck speed.
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:16 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:This is also part of why Ultra Instinct is such a powerful technique - you can never get caught off-guard, as your guard is always up, and you react without even having to think.

I recall a part from the anime (it might have just been the dub, though) from the scene where Krillin was about to throw the rock at Goku, he thought to himself something like 'Goku will probably just blast it away without even moving/realizing it' - if you look at that comment in retrospect, Krillin pretty much just described Ultra Instinct.
How about the scene way back when Goku first met Popo and was told to "clear your mind and move as fast as lightning"? The anime followed it up by having Goku face a doll version of himself with the exact same strength as him but he got beat by it several times since he couldn't properly react to it at breakbeck speed.
That's another good example.
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Lionel » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:45 am

Lord Frieza wrote:
theherodjl wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:Without his ki to protect him, Goku's body simple isne't that durable.
Even with Ki, Goku experienced great pain while taking Hit's vital-point attacks and even had his heart stop for a minute. That's probably why he lost Death Battle round 2 against Superman, his skin & muscle tissue are super durable but his organs are apparently not.
I will say that even with ehanced durability, vital points are... well vital. They are structural weak spots in your body that when hit cause mor damage. Even if you boosted your durability being hit in a vital spot will hurt more.

Side note this is also another thing that can get Giant characters into trouble. Their vital spots are larger and easier to hit despite their increased size and strength.
Exactly this. It's why I'm of the opinion that Hit is one of the most dangerous characters in the series. His pressure points based fighting style are specifically targeted towards some of the most vulnerable areas of the body. If he hits someone in like, say, the carotid artery that could cause the heart rhythm and blood pressure to decrease severely. If it doesn't knock the enemy out then it'll make them disorientated and exhausted due to oxygen deprivation -- think Goku as he was beginning to reel from the effects of the heart virus while fighting #19.

Want to make a weaker fighter viable? Aiming for those weak points is one good means for achieving that goal. Go for the eyes, genitals or an orifice. It's unseemly but in dire circumstances why wouldn't you try everything you can think of?

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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:08 am

Lionel wrote:Exactly this. It's why I'm of the opinion that Hit is one of the most dangerous characters in the series. His pressure points based fighting style are specifically targeted towards some of the most vulnerable areas of the body. If he hits someone in like, say, the carotid artery that could cause the heart rhythm and blood pressure to decrease severely. If it doesn't knock the enemy out then it'll make them disorientated and exhausted due to oxygen deprivation -- think Goku as he was beginning to reel from the effects of the heart virus while fighting #19.

Want to make a weaker fighter viable? Aiming for those weak points is one good means for achieving that goal. Go for the eyes, genitals or an orifice. It's unseemly but in dire circumstances why wouldn't you try everything you can think of?
Its also worth noting that their biological senses & functions aren't superhuman. The Taiyoken never seems to fail in blinding an opponent, beings with very loud screams(like Pure Boo & Rummshi) can cause even Goku to cover his ears or momentarily paralyze his body from the intense sonic force, and then getting forced underwater or exposed to the vacuum of space immediately causes them to panic for oxygen. Hunger & thirst are considered senses as well and we all know that the majority of beings in DB cannot go without the consumption of food and/or water.
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:04 am

theherodjl wrote:
Lionel wrote:Exactly this. It's why I'm of the opinion that Hit is one of the most dangerous characters in the series. His pressure points based fighting style are specifically targeted towards some of the most vulnerable areas of the body. If he hits someone in like, say, the carotid artery that could cause the heart rhythm and blood pressure to decrease severely. If it doesn't knock the enemy out then it'll make them disorientated and exhausted due to oxygen deprivation -- think Goku as he was beginning to reel from the effects of the heart virus while fighting #19.

Want to make a weaker fighter viable? Aiming for those weak points is one good means for achieving that goal. Go for the eyes, genitals or an orifice. It's unseemly but in dire circumstances why wouldn't you try everything you can think of?
Its also worth noting that their biological senses & functions aren't superhuman. The Taiyoken never seems to fail in blinding an opponent, beings with very loud screams(like Pure Boo & Rummshi) can cause even Goku to cover his ears or momentarily paralyze his body from the intense sonic force, and then getting forced underwater or exposed to the vacuum of space immediately causes them to panic for oxygen. Hunger & thirst are considered senses as well and we all know that the majority of beings in DB cannot go without the consumption of food and/or water.
There's also Goku Black and Zamasu being vulnerable to that gas grenade (which I personally thought was silly).
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Lord Frieza » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:31 pm

Lionel wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:
theherodjl wrote:
Even with Ki, Goku experienced great pain while taking Hit's vital-point attacks and even had his heart stop for a minute. That's probably why he lost Death Battle round 2 against Superman, his skin & muscle tissue are super durable but his organs are apparently not.
I will say that even with ehanced durability, vital points are... well vital. They are structural weak spots in your body that when hit cause mor damage. Even if you boosted your durability being hit in a vital spot will hurt more.

Side note this is also another thing that can get Giant characters into trouble. Their vital spots are larger and easier to hit despite their increased size and strength.
Exactly this. It's why I'm of the opinion that Hit is one of the most dangerous characters in the series. His pressure points based fighting style are specifically targeted towards some of the most vulnerable areas of the body. If he hits someone in like, say, the carotid artery that could cause the heart rhythm and blood pressure to decrease severely. If it doesn't knock the enemy out then it'll make them disorientated and exhausted due to oxygen deprivation -- think Goku as he was beginning to reel from the effects of the heart virus while fighting #19.

Want to make a weaker fighter viable? Aiming for those weak points is one good means for achieving that goal. Go for the eyes, genitals or an orifice. It's unseemly but in dire circumstances why wouldn't you try everything you can think of?
I'm watching a new series and something in it reminded me of this thread.

In this series their is a character called Yanagi the Poisoner and like Hit he exploits the weaknesses of biology to beat his targets. He uses what he calls the "most poisonous gas" to beat people, but it's not what you'd think. He uses oxygen. Specifially he uses his "Vacume Palm" techqunic to reduce the level of oxygen in his palm to 6%. This is important because the air we breath is 21% oxygen, at about 15% you begin to suffer the effects of oxygen deprivation such as dizziness, shivering, nausea and vomiting with the end result being loss of consciousness. But that takes time to effect a persion and is no good in a fight. But a single breath of air containing only 6% oxygen will instantly cause the body to shutdown.

By exploiting this biological weakness he can ko a person just by putting his palm over their face. I wish Dragon Ball would get that creative.

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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:58 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:
I will say that even with ehanced durability, vital points are... well vital. They are structural weak spots in your body that when hit cause mor damage. Even if you boosted your durability being hit in a vital spot will hurt more.

Side note this is also another thing that can get Giant characters into trouble. Their vital spots are larger and easier to hit despite their increased size and strength.
Exactly this. It's why I'm of the opinion that Hit is one of the most dangerous characters in the series. His pressure points based fighting style are specifically targeted towards some of the most vulnerable areas of the body. If he hits someone in like, say, the carotid artery that could cause the heart rhythm and blood pressure to decrease severely. If it doesn't knock the enemy out then it'll make them disorientated and exhausted due to oxygen deprivation -- think Goku as he was beginning to reel from the effects of the heart virus while fighting #19.

Want to make a weaker fighter viable? Aiming for those weak points is one good means for achieving that goal. Go for the eyes, genitals or an orifice. It's unseemly but in dire circumstances why wouldn't you try everything you can think of?
I'm watching a new series and something in it reminded me of this thread.

In this series their is a character called Yanagi the Poisoner and like Hit he exploits the weaknesses of biology to beat his targets. He uses what he calls the "most poisonous gas" to beat people, but it's not what you'd think. He uses oxygen. Specifially he uses his "Vacume Palm" techqunic to reduce the level of oxygen in his palm to 6%. This is important because the air we breath is 21% oxygen, at about 15% you begin to suffer the effects of oxygen deprivation such as dizziness, shivering, nausea and vomiting with the end result being loss of consciousness. But that takes time to effect a persion and is no good in a fight. But a single breath of air containing only 6% oxygen will instantly cause the body to shutdown.

By exploiting this biological weakness he can ko a person just by putting his palm over their face. I wish Dragon Ball would get that creative.
So he instantly kills his target? That's disturbing. Interesting but disturbing.
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Lord Frieza » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:14 pm

Hulk10 wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:
Lionel wrote:
Exactly this. It's why I'm of the opinion that Hit is one of the most dangerous characters in the series. His pressure points based fighting style are specifically targeted towards some of the most vulnerable areas of the body. If he hits someone in like, say, the carotid artery that could cause the heart rhythm and blood pressure to decrease severely. If it doesn't knock the enemy out then it'll make them disorientated and exhausted due to oxygen deprivation -- think Goku as he was beginning to reel from the effects of the heart virus while fighting #19.

Want to make a weaker fighter viable? Aiming for those weak points is one good means for achieving that goal. Go for the eyes, genitals or an orifice. It's unseemly but in dire circumstances why wouldn't you try everything you can think of?
I'm watching a new series and something in it reminded me of this thread.

In this series their is a character called Yanagi the Poisoner and like Hit he exploits the weaknesses of biology to beat his targets. He uses what he calls the "most poisonous gas" to beat people, but it's not what you'd think. He uses oxygen. Specifially he uses his "Vacume Palm" techqunic to reduce the level of oxygen in his palm to 6%. This is important because the air we breath is 21% oxygen, at about 15% you begin to suffer the effects of oxygen deprivation such as dizziness, shivering, nausea and vomiting with the end result being loss of consciousness. But that takes time to effect a persion and is no good in a fight. But a single breath of air containing only 6% oxygen will instantly cause the body to shutdown.

By exploiting this biological weakness he can ko a person just by putting his palm over their face. I wish Dragon Ball would get that creative.
So he instantly kills his target? That's disturbing. Interesting but disturbing.
Not kill but knocks them out cold and leave them helpless for a while. That said the guy is a serial killer, death is soon to follow. Whats really disterbing his how he mastered it, he deliberatly got himself centanced to deathrow so he could experimint and perfect his vacume palm technique on the other inmates. He had all the test subjects he wanted.

Even if it's not a lethal move by itself, if you were to use it one of the air breathing DB caste they'd be left completely defenceless.

Edit: On the subject of gas affecting Black and Zamasu

Tear Gas works by irritating mucous membranes in the eyes, nose, mouth and lungs, and causes crying, sneezing, coughing, difficulty breathing, pain in the eyes, and temporary blindness. This is why it can affect even powerful beings, it's a chemical weapon they biologically have no defence against.

Another one people tend to forget is intense cold. While it can be guarded against with ki, as seen throughout the series if Goku allows his body to start becoming numb, his ability to control his ki weakens and if he gets completely frozen with no protection he's vertually helpless.

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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:45 am

Lord Frieza wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:Tear Gas works by irritating mucous membranes in the eyes, nose, mouth and lungs, and causes crying, sneezing, coughing, difficulty breathing, pain in the eyes, and temporary blindness. This is why it can affect even powerful beings, it's a chemical weapon they biologically have no defence against.
Power up a bit and blow all the gas away with your aura.
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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Lord Frieza » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:19 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:
Hulk10 wrote:
Power up a bit and blow all the gas away with your aura.
A perfectly legitimate counter move provided you don’t get a face full of the stuff first. The effects of tear gas can last from 30 minutes to several hours depending on how much you were exposed to.

But here’s the thing, that should really only apply to Black. Zamasu is both a Kaioshin and was granted immortality. I would have thought that since Kaioshin can travel through space, like Beerus they can go pretty much anywhere and environmental hazards like poison, heat and such don’t trouble them. Even if the gas could effect him, Zamasu’s immortality should heal him of the effects instantly once he clears it.

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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:25 pm

I think in Dragonball in has to do with Ki in terms of defense. We see characters blasted through with Death Beams and Lasers that are caught off guard or are weakened, get sliced through with swords, yet can tank a planet blowing up on them. I think it all has to do with preparedness so they can bring up their defense I suppose

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Re: How Useful Is Superhuman Durability In DB?

Post by Kataphrut » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:43 am

This is going to sound elitist but I feel like the laser ring thing in Resurrection F caught a lot of casual "DEEBEEZEE" fans off. So many people complained or made jokes about that, how the power levels and that crap didn't make sense and it's like, do you think these characters are made of rock? I guess that's the impression you'd get sometimes, but this concept wasn't new. They even had Whis explain the importance of guarding earlier in the film just to set it up.

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