Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

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Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by superfan2024 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:56 pm

Literally any attempt to kill Boo previously just led to him regenerating, and some characters called him immortal. Why was it that the Spirit Bomb did the trick? Was it because Toriyama was getting burned out of DB and wanted to just end it ASAP around the Kid Boo saga? Was the Spirit Bomb just more special than any other attack (even though it didn't kill Vegeta and Freeza)?

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Regarder » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:02 pm

Maybe Genki did a lot of damage because he was pure evil? Or it's that you can gather a lot more of it if it can come from others, or maybe both. Vegetto was enough to annihilate Boo beforehand as he proved it with his tendril, reducing it to nothing. Goku thought his full power at SS3 would be enough, but he never got to test that theory, because he couldn't hold the power. So depending on how you slice it some regular ki attacks are enough. Honestly what we don't know is if the weaker forms of Boo are easier to destroy completely than the stronger forms.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Kaboom » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:10 pm

Boo's not immortal, but it takes a lot to actually kill him thanks to his broken regeneration and stamina. It's pretty much impossible to wear Boo down and make him vulnerable like other foes. He can quickly regenerate back to 100% even from just smoke and dust. So you need to create a massive attack that's not only overkill in the power it contains, but is also able to completely envelop him and wipe out every last molecule.

In the final battle with Pure Boo, the Spirit Bomb was ultimately the thing that succeeded in doing all of the above. Goku was trying to generate a big enough attack on his own, but Super Saiyan 3 and its energy drain turned against him before he could. Goku remarks that Vegetto could have done it effortlessly. Gotenks or Gohan could have done it easily too, but Vegeta opted for the Spirit Bomb instead. Probably because a Spirit Bomb is non-sentient and immaterial, and thus can't screw up and get absorbed like Gotenks or Gohan already each did once and probably would again.
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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:45 pm

superfan2024 wrote:Literally any attempt to kill Boo previously just led to him regenerating, and some characters called him immortal. Why was it that the Spirit Bomb did the trick? Was it because Toriyama was getting burned out of DB and wanted to just end it ASAP around the Kid Boo saga? Was the Spirit Bomb just more special than any other attack (even though it didn't kill Vegeta and Freeza)?
Every form of Majin Buu is at least biologically Immortal since not one form of the pink monster can survive the complete and utter destruction of their body.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by ahill1 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:50 pm

Vegeta stated that with Super Saiyajin 3, Goku can gather all his might into an attack and that that would be enough to finish Kid Boo. Goku also stated that they'd have done it (killed Kid Boo) in one blast if they fought as Vegetto. So a Genki-Dama isn't the only chi blast with which you can kill Boo... Goku simply hadn't the stamina to gather all his power into that powerful chi blast, as his SSJ3 ate chi at a rather fast pace.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by NewKakarot » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:12 pm

superfan2024 wrote:Was the Spirit Bomb just more special than any other attack (even though it didn't kill Vegeta and Freeza)?
If we look beyond the original story and into the movies, the Spirit Bomb is used as the finishing move many times (against Wheelo, Turles, etc). So even though it never managed to land a victory before Kid Buu in the manga, I think fans would already recognize it as an excellent finishing attack. But I think what makes the Spirit Bomb that was used against Kid Buu so special is that it's more of a symbol representing the power of everyone on Earth (and Namek too, I guess). It's even more of a special moment in the anime version because we see many characters that originated in some of the earliest Dragon Ball stories, like Suno and Upa (just to name a few), who still remember Goku and send him their ki.

Quick edit: Went back to make sure if Suno and Upa were in the manga. Turns out they were, which I somehow forgot. But the anime still added a Launch cameo, so...

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:48 pm

Because all of the other attacks that hit him either weren't strong enough, or only destroyed part of his body.
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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:43 pm

My memory may be rusty, but did anyone ever even attempt to hit Buu with a potentially fatal attack besides Vegeta's sacrifice?
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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Kaboom » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:21 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:My memory may be rusty, but did anyone ever even attempt to hit Buu with a potentially fatal attack besides Vegeta's sacrifice?
All I can remember is that Vegetto kind of did, but only to that one torn-off piece of Boo, just to show that he was capable of it. Besides that and Vegeta's explosion, everyone else either just got close to doing so (like Gotenks right before he defused) or didn't get the chance (like Goku losing SS3 before he could gather enough power).
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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by KBABZ » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:46 am

I subscribe to Kunzait's approach: because of Buu's Cell + Bubble Gum + Genie Smoke nature, it makes it nearly impossible to kill him. The Genki Dama Goku formed for Buu is a ball of pure ki energy, which differs from nearly every other attack used on him because it's much larger than Buu is. Imagine it like a lightsaber blade the size of a building: it won't just cut, it'll literally atomize anything it passes through. That combined with the sheer amount of ki energy for both the ball and Goku himself meant that it worked in defeating Buu.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:54 am

Kaboom wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:21 pm
Cursed Lemon wrote:My memory may be rusty, but did anyone ever even attempt to hit Buu with a potentially fatal attack besides Vegeta's sacrifice?
All I can remember is that Vegetto kind of did, but only to that one torn-off piece of Boo, just to show that he was capable of it. Besides that and Vegeta's explosion, everyone else either just got close to doing so (like Gotenks right before he defused) or didn't get the chance (like Goku losing SS3 before he could gather enough power).
There was Pure Buu nearly beating Fat Buu to death. If nothing else, it shows that the regeneration has limits.
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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:00 am

Boo was never immortal, no matter what some characters state. If he were, then his spirit would have endured despite the loss of his body. When Fused Zamasu was annihilated by the Spirit Bomb, his spirit survived, as he was actually immortal.

Boo only had good regeneration capabiltiies going on for him, but he certainly wasn't immortal.
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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Lionel » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:21 pm

I agree with the previously expressed notions of the symbolism behind the Spirit Bomb and how it was mechanically conducive to destroying Buu. In order to stop him, you can't just beat him until the point of brain death or blood loss -- he's the sort of magical creature who can reconstitute and function with but a single atom of his body being all that's necessary. Think back to Cell's regeneration and how he was able to recreate himself via regeneration if but a single cell of his body survived. The average human body has tens of trillions of cells! Who knows how many existed in Cell. Now break that down to trillions of molecules existing in a single cell. You can see the difficulty to trying to kill something that can remake itself on a such broken down level, right?

What might be appropriate to say is that Buu was immortal in the context of being immune to aging and physical ailment. There's different stylistic interpretations to immortality in fiction.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:40 am

It was the same issue that we faced with Cell. If at least one cell survived, he could regenerate. So the Spirit Bomb (the most powerful one we had seen in the series at that point) was more than enough, and was a last resort for an out of energy Goku.

I also think that Buu being a entity of pure evil also had something to do with why it wiped him out for good. Though truthfully if Goku felt SSJ3 could have wiped him out at full power, then it's possible they just needed something really strong to do the job

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Coola Yagami » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:44 am

Honestly, I guess we can chock it up to the Genki Dama being made of good energy wiping out Buu being the embodiment of evil. After seeing the smoke from Super Buu's ashes coming back to reform him, I honestly see no real reason why the smoke left from Kid Buu's death didn't bring him back except that the story was over and Toriyama's brain was severely burnt out on all things Dragonball at that point.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Darkprince410 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:06 am

Coola Yagami wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:44 am
Honestly, I guess we can chock it up to the Genki Dama being made of good energy wiping out Buu being the embodiment of evil. After seeing the smoke from Super Buu's ashes coming back to reform him, I honestly see no real reason why the smoke left from Kid Buu's death didn't bring him back except that the story was over and Toriyama's brain was severely burnt out on all things Dragonball at that point.
The Genki Dama isn't made up of good energy. It's neutral, same as any other ki technique. The only aspect about it tied to good or evil is that an individual without evil can actively deflect it if they try, but otherwise it'd kill them just as easily as it'd kill anyone else. The reason that Buu could survive being reduced to smoke is because Gotenks and Piccolo didn't erase his ki, as their attacks weren't powerful enough to do so. With Pure Buu and the Genki Dama, it was just enough to erase his ki entirely.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Cold Skin » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:32 am

Well, as others have said, it's a matter of just obliterating every single microscopic thing composing him.
Only a massive blast of energy leaving not even one bit of ashes, not even one bit of smoke, can do this.
The plan was to have a gigantic blast by SS3 Goku, but since it didn't work out, a Genki Dama was fine to have a massive, huge power blast that would overwhelm him and not let a single cell fly away.

Plus, don't forget that it's a blast likely containing the whole universe 7 power, including the Other World.

KAIO: "Vegeta, I'm so glad that you thought of my ultimate technic, the Genki Dama! Come on, speak out! Your voice will be heard not only on Earth, but in the whole universe!"

DENDE (On Namek): "Oh no! But all of us already gave our energy!"

ENMA (in the Other World): "Come on, Son Goku!! Your Genki Dama contains the energy of the entire Other World!!"


I don't buy the whole "positive energy versus evil" thing, because it's an Anime-only concept so far (repeated in DBS as anime-only once again), which means Toriyama didn't take it into account when creating that outcome. In the manga, there is no mention of the Genki Dama being necessarily positive, and Cell does imply he's pretty sure to be able to form a Genki Dama if he wanted to. Whether he rightfully or wrongfully thinks so is never touched upon.
Regarding Gohan sending back the ball, Goku never really states it's because only someone pure can manipulate this technic, he says it's because "this energy is on our side, someone without evil intents can send it back". This could imply that used by someone evil like Cell, it would align with the evil source and being able to be sent back by someone evil. But it just happened to be on the side of good when used against Vegeta (and all other times in the story so far), which allowed Gohan to send it back since his alignment was the same as the ball.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Coola Yagami » Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:52 pm

Cold Skin wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:32 am
n the manga, there is no mention of the Genki Dama being necessarily positive, and Cell does imply he's pretty sure to be able to form a Genki Dama if he wanted to. Whether he rightfully or wrongfully thinks so is never touched upon.
I always though that was a weird throwaway line from Cell so to speak. I mean we saw nothing proving if he was telling the truth or not, or if he was just bluffing, or if he thought he could but could not if he actually tried on account of him being evil. I can only imagine him actually using the Genki Dama in the actual series (not counting the games) and how epic that would have been, especially since that move was absent from that arc. The closest thing we got was Bebi's Revenger Death Ball which was practically a villainous Genki Dama.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Darkprince410 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:21 pm

Cold Skin wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:32 am

Plus, don't forget that it's a blast likely containing the whole universe 7 power, including the Other World.

KAIO: "Vegeta, I'm so glad that you thought of my ultimate technic, the Genki Dama! Come on, speak out! Your voice will be heard not only on Earth, but in the whole universe!"

ENMA (in the Other World): "Come on, Son Goku!! Your Genki Dama contains the energy of the entire Other World!!"


That's not what Kaiou or Enma says. In the original manga, Kaiou brings up that he could give Vegeta access to the entire universe if he wanted (rather than that he was actually having his voice reach that far), and Vegeta responds to that offer by saying to not overdo it. Likewise, Enma simply says "us here in the afterlife", not necessarily the entire afterlife. So while those that were actively keeping tabs on the battle with Buu (those on New Namek and Enma and his staff in the afterlife) did contribute, it's safe to say that it was just Earth being called upon, not the whole universe.

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Re: Why did the spirit bomb kill Boo but not any other attack or blast beforehand?

Post by Cold Skin » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:25 pm

^ Well, this is what's written in the French Kanzenban / Perfect Edition.
In French, Kaio clearly says that his voice WILL be heard in the entire universe, not that it COULD be heard, to which Vegeta replies "Thank you..." or "Thank you for your efforts..." depending on how you interpret his French "Merci bien...". And Enma clearly states that the ball currently has the energy of the ENTIRE afterlife.

Image
FRENCH: "Ta voix sera retransmise non seulement sur Terre, mais dans tout l'univers !"
TRANSLATION: "Your voice will be broadcast not only on Earth, but in the entire universe!"

Image
FRENCH: "Ton Genki Dama contient l'énergie de l'Au-delà tout entier !"
TRANSLATION: "Your Genki Dama contains the energy of the entire Afterlife!"

But, you know, Japanese text requires a lot of interpretation, so...
Plus, even though Kaio is proud to say it will even be heard in the entire universe, Vegeta thanks him but might not make use of it, as he does proceed to say "people of the whole world" with a picture of the Earth in the background, so he might choose to directly aim his speech at the Earth only (with the Nameks and the Afterlife knowing about this because they've got people actively following the situation around). Plus the chapter is named "Message to the revived Earthlings", so you may be right, with only "accidental bystanders" also hearing it and being able to participate.

Even if it's just Namek and the people directly around Enma, it is a more powerful form of Genki Dama than just the Earthlings I guess.

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