The Super Saiyan God

[Grand Marshal 1]

Hello everyone, I am Grand and I would like to get your opinion on something that has been troubling me for a long time. The original Super Saiyan God. I have a concept on my head based on what we have heard about Yamoshi in all sources possible and I wish to have your input on it.

So, shall we?

WARNING: ANIME INFORMATION WILL BE USED

Everything starts with the awakening of Universe 7's God of Destruction, Beerus. In age 739, he was told of a prophecy from the Oracle Fish. The prophecy of a Super Saiyan God that would appear 39 years later, in age 778. Things get interesting now. We learn from Dragon Ball Super: Broly, that prior to Planet Vegeta's destruction in age 737, Freeza became aqcuainted with the legend of the Super Saiyan and of the Super Saiyan God.

Beerus last visited Planet Vegeta in age 737, the same year as it's destruction. It was when King Vegeta or Vegeta the 3rd hosted a feast for the Destroyer. Due to Beerus' disdain of the Saiyans he ordered Freeza to carry out the operation of the Saiyan Genocide. Now the question remains, why would the Oracle Fish need two more years to reveal the existence of the Super Saiyan God to Beerus, considering that Freeza was already knowledgable with the legend? More so, how come Beerus never learned of the original Super Saiyan God's existence who appeared 1000 years prior?

Anyway, back to the main point of this thread, according to the footage that we have received from both the Anime and the movie, Yamoshi (the original SSJG) was reminiscent of Vegeta's characteristics. After we learnt in DBS: Broly that Prince Vegeta is Vegeta the 4th, his father is subsequently the 3rd, which means that before the total occupation of Planet Plant from the Saiyans by King Vegeta, two more Vegetas ruled the Saiyans. Planet Plant hosted the first Saiyans in age 550 and considering the average lifespan of a Saiyan, it wouldn't be too much if we said that Vegeta the 1st was the one who led his comrades on Planet Plant, after Sadala was destroyed.

Nonetheless, there is still a huge gap between age 550 and 238 before age, which was when Yamoshi fought against the Evil Saiyans and died. This would imply that there is a missing link between the Vegeta family and the god. Despite that, the possibility still exists for the royalty of the Saiyans to be connected with Yamoshi.

However, if Yamoshi was indeed a noble Saiyan, then this wouldn't explain why they would describe him as destructive, but if he was defeated by his enemies, they would most certainly make him look as the evil one because of them having ther goals. The Vegeta family being successors to the evil Saiyans could work out as well, because no way would the Saiyans (after such a conflict) allow for "pure-hearted" Saiyans to be on levels of authority.

About the Super Saiyan God. Dragon Ball Legends (the game) introduced us to 2 "ancient" Saiyans. When any media refers to "ancient" Saiyans, they tend to mean Saiyans from the era when the Super Saiyan came to life. Shallot, a kind Saiyan has a brother who is evil. Now, now, who were these Evil Saiyans you might ask. Easy, all points lead to one individual. The leader of the evil Saiyans, the Evil Saiyan himself. Cumber. Only Cumber can be considered as the most evil of Saiyans who remembers Yamoshi (he recognized Goku's SSJG form). If that is true, then Yamoshi fought with Cumber.

I am inclined to believe that Shallot was one of the Saiyans who assisted Yamoshi in order to become a deity, while Shallot's brother was Cumber's ally. With the defeat of Yamoshi, it is possible that Cumber was the one who caused the devastation of the Planet on which he fought Yamoshi on. There is even a possibility for him to lead the Saiyans due to his success at killing the strongest competitor, until he died as well and perhaps the Vegeta family claimed the leadership, which would also explain the gap between age 500 and 238 BA.

King Cold was aware of the Super Saiyan legend, but didn't seem to care, yet he was afraid of Majin Buu who had an even lesser probability of becoming a threat as he was still inside his cocoon. If so, King Cold either truly didn't care about the legend OR he had seen with his own eyes the original Super Saiyan dying. This would imply that he was alive at the time between the battle of Yamoshi with Cumber, or that he observed Cumber's death (as he was the potential reason behind the Super Saiyan's destructive powers). If so, then why didn't Cold find the Saiyans earlier? They were primitives, he didn't have to, until age 731 when they were discovered by the Arcosians. Besides, Kikono was under Cold's command once, meaning that when he revealed the Super Saiyan God legend to Freeza, he could have learnt that from Cold himself.

To sum up (as you might have been confused xD) I think that we have all the data necessary to determine who was the original Super Saiyan God, his impact, his enemies and how the legends stayed alive for so long. Basically, Yamoshi a kind Saiyan alongside with his colleagues (Shallot being one of them) face off Cumber (the evil Saiyan) and his allies (of which Shallot's brother is a member of). Yamoshi is defeated and his descendants are forced into hiding until Cumber dies and his tyrrany is over. Vegeta the 1st travels on Planet Plant with the rest of the Saiyans, time passes and Vegeta the 3rd takes over the Planet from the Tuffles. King Cold expands his Empire in the meantime, learning about the Saiyan legends, the existence of a magic being know as Majin Buu and of the God of Destruction of the universe. The Saiyans are discovered by Cold, Freeza rises to power and so do the Saiyans, Vegeta the 4th is born, the God of Destruction visits them and orders Freeza to destroy them (which he does, as he had his own ambitions) and the Oracle Fish informs Beerus of the Super Saiyan God prophecy two years later.

That is about it. Most of these things were already known, but due to the franchise not really handling these information with care, I tried to describe the events as realistically (for the franchise) as possible. Now, it is up to you, to help me make this theory (?) even better! Thank you!

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Just some errors you made, mainly the events of Yamoshi's tale.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God. He was the Legendary Super Saiyan, the first Super Saiyan that Universe 7's Saiyans learned of and based their legend on. He and 5 other righteous Saiyans fought against the evil Saiyans on Planet Sadala. In the battle, Yamoshi managed to become a Super Saiyan, gaining immense strength and ruthlessness in combat.

However, he was defeated by the sheer numbers of the evil Saiyans and died. However, instead of moving on to Otherworld, his spirit lingered and started wandering Universe 7. His wandering spirit met with the Grand Namekian Elder of the time who sympathized with him and wrote down the legend of the Super Saiyan God in the Namekian Book of Legends; his spirit was also sense by Beerus while he was sleeping, giving him the dream of a Super Saiyan God who would be his ultimate rival.

His spirit wanders still in search of 6 righteous Saiyans and a new saviour: Super Saiyan God. And that's why there's a ritual for SSG.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God that appeared over Planet Vegeta, but instead the legendary Super Saiyan whose wandering soul allowed the creation of a Super Saiyan God through a ritual involving 6 pure-hearted Saiyans.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Just some errors you made, mainly the events of Yamoshi's tale.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God. He was the Legendary Super Saiyan, the first Super Saiyan that Universe 7's Saiyans learned of and based their legend on. He and 5 other righteous Saiyans fought against the evil Saiyans on Planet Sadala. In the battle, Yamoshi managed to become a Super Saiyan, gaining immense strength and ruthlessness in combat.

However, he was defeated by the sheer numbers of the evil Saiyans and died. However, instead of moving on to Otherworld, his spirit lingered and started wandering Universe 7. His wandering spirit met with the Grand Namekian Elder of the time who sympathized with him and wrote down the legend of the Super Saiyan God in the Namekian Book of Legends; his spirit was also sense by Beerus while he was sleeping, giving him the dream of a Super Saiyan God who would be his ultimate rival.

His spirit wanders still in search of 6 righteous Saiyans and a new saviour: Super Saiyan God. And that's why there's a ritual for SSG.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God that appeared over Planet Vegeta, but instead the legendary Super Saiyan whose wandering soul allowed the creation of a Super Saiyan God through a ritual involving 6 pure-hearted Saiyans.

I can't say that I do not agree, but that sounds kinda contradictory with what we have been presented in the DB media. Of course Super Saiyan God wasn't a thing until 2015 and the "Super Saiyan legend" exists since the early Z, but there was a Super Saiyan God. Or else, how would there be a ritual, if Yamoshi hadn't transformed already?

Furthermore, the Saiyans shouldn't be aware of the SSJG legend if it happened the way you describe to me. That would be because, Yamoshi wouldn't go God for anyone to see and the Namekians wouldn't really like to share their info, so the Freeza force shouldn't be aware of the legend either. As kikono clearly referenced the Super Saiyan God to Freeza.

Lastly, the planet on which Yamoshi was on was destroyed. It wasn't Sadala, because Sadala was destroyed half a millenia later by inner conflict, which was the reason for the Saiyans leaving for Planet Plant.

Although, I do agree with you on the "spirit" part. I kinda forgot that...

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Just some errors you made, mainly the events of Yamoshi's tale.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God. He was the Legendary Super Saiyan, the first Super Saiyan that Universe 7's Saiyans learned of and based their legend on. He and 5 other righteous Saiyans fought against the evil Saiyans on Planet Sadala. In the battle, Yamoshi managed to become a Super Saiyan, gaining immense strength and ruthlessness in combat.

However, he was defeated by the sheer numbers of the evil Saiyans and died. However, instead of moving on to Otherworld, his spirit lingered and started wandering Universe 7. His wandering spirit met with the Grand Namekian Elder of the time who sympathized with him and wrote down the legend of the Super Saiyan God in the Namekian Book of Legends; his spirit was also sense by Beerus while he was sleeping, giving him the dream of a Super Saiyan God who would be his ultimate rival.

His spirit wanders still in search of 6 righteous Saiyans and a new saviour: Super Saiyan God. And that's why there's a ritual for SSG.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God that appeared over Planet Vegeta, but instead the legendary Super Saiyan whose wandering soul allowed the creation of a Super Saiyan God through a ritual involving 6 pure-hearted Saiyans.

I can't say that I do not agree, but that sounds kinda contradictory with what we have been presented in the DB media. Of course Super Saiyan God wasn't a thing until 2015 and the "Super Saiyan legend" exists since the early Z, but there was a Super Saiyan God. Or else, how would there be a ritual, if Yamoshi hadn't transformed already?

Furthermore, the Saiyans shouldn't be aware of the SSJG legend if it happened the way you describe to me. That would be because, Yamoshi wouldn't go God for anyone to see and the Namekians wouldn't really like to share their info, so the Freeza force shouldn't be aware of the legend either. As kikono clearly referenced the Super Saiyan God to Freeza.

Lastly, the planet on which Yamoshi was on was destroyed. It wasn't Sadala, because Sadala was destroyed half a millenia later by inner conflict, which was the reason for the Saiyans leaving for Planet Plant.

Although, I do agree with you on the "spirit" part. I kinda forgot that...

This is direct from Toriyama's interview when asked if the original Super Saiyan God and the Legendary Super Saiyan were the same person. He makes it clear they're only the same "in a certain sense", not literally. The ritual is made possible because of Yamoshi's wandering spirit in search of 6 righteous Saiyans; some weird Saiyan magic mumbo-jumbo related to souls and the original conditions leading to Super Saiyan. Though you did get me with Planet Plant; that part, I misremembered.

But again, Yamoshi never transformed into a Super Saiyan God. People keep getting this part wrong. Also, the original Super Saiyan God is the one that appeared over Planet Vegeta who fought the evil Saiyans from the movie, made possible due to Yamoshi's wandering spirit enabling the ritual to work where there are 6 pure-hearted Saiyans present. Don't believe me, check out the interview and pay VERY close attention to the wording.

Was the “legendary Super Saiyan” Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?
In a certain sense, they are the same person. That is to say, very long ago, before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ planet, there was a man named Yamoshi4 who had a righteous heart despite being a Saiyan. He and his five comrades started a rebellion, but he was cornered by combatants and became a Super Saiyan for the first time, though his transformation and fearsome fighting style shocked the other Saiyans. Outnumbered, Yamoshi eventually wore himself out and was defeated, but this was only the beginning of his legend. Afterwards, Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God.
[Tori-bot] “And that’s why there’s that ceremony to become Super Saiyan God.”

↓ And why did Beerus search for Super Saiyan God?

Beerus probably picked up on information about Yamoshi’s spirit in his prophetic dream. The fact that this is recorded in the Namekian book of legends5 is likewise because the Namekian elder who wrote it sympathized with Yamoshi’s spirit.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Just some errors you made, mainly the events of Yamoshi's tale.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God. He was the Legendary Super Saiyan, the first Super Saiyan that Universe 7's Saiyans learned of and based their legend on. He and 5 other righteous Saiyans fought against the evil Saiyans on Planet Sadala. In the battle, Yamoshi managed to become a Super Saiyan, gaining immense strength and ruthlessness in combat.

However, he was defeated by the sheer numbers of the evil Saiyans and died. However, instead of moving on to Otherworld, his spirit lingered and started wandering Universe 7. His wandering spirit met with the Grand Namekian Elder of the time who sympathized with him and wrote down the legend of the Super Saiyan God in the Namekian Book of Legends; his spirit was also sense by Beerus while he was sleeping, giving him the dream of a Super Saiyan God who would be his ultimate rival.

His spirit wanders still in search of 6 righteous Saiyans and a new saviour: Super Saiyan God. And that's why there's a ritual for SSG.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God that appeared over Planet Vegeta, but instead the legendary Super Saiyan whose wandering soul allowed the creation of a Super Saiyan God through a ritual involving 6 pure-hearted Saiyans.

I can't say that I do not agree, but that sounds kinda contradictory with what we have been presented in the DB media. Of course Super Saiyan God wasn't a thing until 2015 and the "Super Saiyan legend" exists since the early Z, but there was a Super Saiyan God. Or else, how would there be a ritual, if Yamoshi hadn't transformed already?

Furthermore, the Saiyans shouldn't be aware of the SSJG legend if it happened the way you describe to me. That would be because, Yamoshi wouldn't go God for anyone to see and the Namekians wouldn't really like to share their info, so the Freeza force shouldn't be aware of the legend either. As kikono clearly referenced the Super Saiyan God to Freeza.

Lastly, the planet on which Yamoshi was on was destroyed. It wasn't Sadala, because Sadala was destroyed half a millenia later by inner conflict, which was the reason for the Saiyans leaving for Planet Plant.

Although, I do agree with you on the "spirit" part. I kinda forgot that...

This is direct from Toriyama's interview when asked if the original Super Saiyan God and the Legendary Super Saiyan were the same person. He makes it clear they're only the same "in a certain sense", not literally. The ritual is made possible because of Yamoshi's wandering spirit in search of 6 righteous Saiyans; some weird Saiyan magic mumbo-jumbo related to souls and the original conditions leading to Super Saiyan. Though you did get me with Planet Plant; that part, I misremembered.

But again, Yamoshi never transformed into a Super Saiyan God. People keep getting this part wrong. Also, the original Super Saiyan God is the one that appeared over Planet Vegeta who fought the evil Saiyans from the movie, made possible due to Yamoshi's wandering spirit enabling the ritual to work where there are 6 pure-hearted Saiyans present. Don't believe me, check out the interview and pay VERY close attention to the wording.

Was the “legendary Super Saiyan” Freeza feared the Super Saiyan God that appeared in Battle of Gods?
In a certain sense, they are the same person. That is to say, very long ago, before Planet Vegeta was the Saiyans’ planet, there was a man named Yamoshi4 who had a righteous heart despite being a Saiyan. He and his five comrades started a rebellion, but he was cornered by combatants and became a Super Saiyan for the first time, though his transformation and fearsome fighting style shocked the other Saiyans. Outnumbered, Yamoshi eventually wore himself out and was defeated, but this was only the beginning of his legend. Afterwards, Yamoshi’s spirit wandered in continuous search of six righteous-hearted Saiyans, seeking a new savior: Super Saiyan God.
[Tori-bot] “And that’s why there’s that ceremony to become Super Saiyan God.”

↓ And why did Beerus search for Super Saiyan God?

Beerus probably picked up on information about Yamoshi’s spirit in his prophetic dream. The fact that this is recorded in the Namekian book of legends5 is likewise because the Namekian elder who wrote it sympathized with Yamoshi’s spirit.

I see. Well, come to think of it, everything makes more sense now. Due to Yamoshi's and his comrades inability to defeat the evil saiyans, his spirit seeked out for a savior that would do what he and his colleagues couldn't. Defeat evil. If so, do you think that there has been a Saiyan who sympathised with Yamoshi's spirit and turned SSJG, before Goku? That brings a lot of new possibilities in the legend.

To be honest, I kinda liked the concept of Yamoshi being the original SSJG. Him fighting Cumber would have been so epic.

[Grimlock]

Lastly, the planet on which Yamoshi was on was destroyed. It wasn't Sadala, because Sadala was destroyed half a millenia later by inner conflict, which was the reason for the Saiyans leaving for Planet Plant.

There are only two planets related to Saiyans: planet Sadala and planet Plant/Vegeta. We know that the "original Super Saiyan God" appeared when Saiyans were already living on planet Vegeta. That can only mean that Yamoshi stuff took place in planet Sadala.

The inner conflict has not been confirmed to be related to the Yamoshi event as of yet, it may or may have not been because of him.

We learn from Dragon Ball Super: Broly, that prior to Planet Vegeta's destruction in age 737, Freeza became aqcuainted with the legend of the Super Saiyan and of the Super Saiyan God.

Planet Vegeta destruction does not take place in AGE 737 anymore. New material (Dragon Ball Minus and Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman, to be precise) contradicts that. It got shifted to AGE 739.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Lastly, the planet on which Yamoshi was on was destroyed. It wasn't Sadala, because Sadala was destroyed half a millenia later by inner conflict, which was the reason for the Saiyans leaving for Planet Plant.

There are only two planets related to Saiyans: planet Sadala and planet Plant/Vegeta. We know that the "original Super Saiyan God" appeared when Saiyans were already living on planet Vegeta. That can only mean that Yamoshi stuff took place in planet Sadala.

The inner conflict has not been confirmed to be related to the Yamoshi event as of yet, it may or may have not been because of him.

We learn from Dragon Ball Super: Broly, that prior to Planet Vegeta's destruction in age 737, Freeza became aqcuainted with the legend of the Super Saiyan and of the Super Saiyan God.

Planet Vegeta destruction does not take place in AGE 737 anymore. New material (Dragon Ball Minus and Jaco, the Galactic Patrolman, to be precise) contradicts that. It got shifted to AGE 739.

So, age 737 isn't referring to the Anime lore anymore? I mean it does, but age 739 was in the manga, right?

[Grimlock]

Yeah, in the manga there is a new date for that. As for the anime, I think they won't change the date due to popularity. AGE 737 was established long ago and such. Xenoverse still places the destruction in AGE 737 as well. A "sudden" change now would probably confuse people.

[PFM18]

Just some errors you made, mainly the events of Yamoshi's tale.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God. He was the Legendary Super Saiyan, the first Super Saiyan that Universe 7's Saiyans learned of and based their legend on. He and 5 other righteous Saiyans fought against the evil Saiyans on Planet Sadala. In the battle, Yamoshi managed to become a Super Saiyan, gaining immense strength and ruthlessness in combat.

However, he was defeated by the sheer numbers of the evil Saiyans and died. However, instead of moving on to Otherworld, his spirit lingered and started wandering Universe 7. His wandering spirit met with the Grand Namekian Elder of the time who sympathized with him and wrote down the legend of the Super Saiyan God in the Namekian Book of Legends; his spirit was also sense by Beerus while he was sleeping, giving him the dream of a Super Saiyan God who would be his ultimate rival.

His spirit wanders still in search of 6 righteous Saiyans and a new saviour: Super Saiyan God. And that's why there's a ritual for SSG.

Yamoshi wasn't the original Super Saiyan God that appeared over Planet Vegeta, but instead the legendary Super Saiyan whose wandering soul allowed the creation of a Super Saiyan God through a ritual involving 6 pure-hearted Saiyans.

I can't say that I do not agree, but that sounds kinda contradictory with what we have been presented in the DB media. Of course Super Saiyan God wasn't a thing until 2015 and the "Super Saiyan legend" exists since the early Z, but there was a Super Saiyan God. Or else, how would there be a ritual, if Yamoshi hadn't transformed already?

Furthermore, the Saiyans shouldn't be aware of the SSJG legend if it happened the way you describe to me. That would be because, Yamoshi wouldn't go God for anyone to see and the Namekians wouldn't really like to share their info, so the Freeza force shouldn't be aware of the legend either. As kikono clearly referenced the Super Saiyan God to Freeza.

Lastly, the planet on which Yamoshi was on was destroyed. It wasn't Sadala, because Sadala was destroyed half a millenia later by inner conflict, which was the reason for the Saiyans leaving for Planet Plant.

Although, I do agree with you on the "spirit" part. I kinda forgot that...

There's nothing to really agree or disagree on, he's more or less just summarizing Toriyama's words on the matter in an interview. Yamoshi never went SSG, but he was the stimulus for every SSG to exist thereafter, and he WAS the original SSJ.