Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

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Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by Rebel_Yeh » Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:56 am

Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan, similar to how Goku went from Super Saiyan God to Super Saiyan Blue?

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by mute_proxy » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:07 am

All we know about the silver haired form is that it appears "when needed" and it can use the UI technique. There's not enough information to make a deduction

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by sintzu » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:29 am

What I think may happen in the future is that they will introduce Ssj4 (we have Broly so it's only a matter of time) and eventually have Goku use UI in that form with a design very similar if not identical to "Ssj5".
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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by Kataphrut » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:37 am

I would hope not, but with this franchise you can never tell.

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:34 pm

He will be able to in the future

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:23 pm

in theory? Most likely.

But UI appears to be a "maximize efficiency" form, bringing out the full power and martial prowess of the user, a transformation like Super Saiyan would likely reduce its effectiveness.

MAYBE Super Saiyan 4 could actually bring a plus to the Ultra Instinct state as it causes a whole-body change instead of being just a Ki-efficiency change, but that's quite arguable-

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by ruler9871 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:07 pm

How strong would Goku be if he stacked SSB on top of UI?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:14 am

ruler9871 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:07 pm
How strong would Goku be if he stacked SSB on top of UI?
If in the first match of Son Goku and Jiren in the Tournament of Power, Super Saiyan Blue Son Goku had been able to gain Ultra Instinct " Omen" without powering down from his Super Saiyan Blue form. Then the now truly Godly Saiyan would be much more than strong enough to be able to defeat Jiren, as even if the latter would have had enough time to have gone into his normal full power and then his so-called Super Full Power, Son Goku still would have kicked his ass. But, if in the part of the Tournament of Power in which Son Goku had been given the very last of Vegeta’s power in order to try and take on the likes of Jiren one last time with his form of Super Saiyan Blue, right when the partially-revitalized Super Saiyan Blue Son Goku would have been knocked right out of Super Saiyan Blue like what had pretty much happened in the original history of the DBS Anime, he would have been able to jump into his True Ultra Instinct state of being much faster than in canon. As Son Goku’s Super Saiyan Blue transformation gave off a calm aura and Jiren would have been defeated even faster than Uncle Krillin had been against Lord Slug in Dragon Ball Z: Lord Slug.

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:41 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:07 pm
How strong would Goku be if he stacked SSB on top of UI?
Blue is still a Super Saiyan transformation: while it's much better than the normal Super Saiyan transformation, it still applies it would degrade the UI performance for the same reason I stated for normal SS.

UI is the "Ultimate Base State" and Toriyama always been on "Base Is Better"

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by ruler9871 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:43 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:41 pm
ruler9871 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:07 pm
How strong would Goku be if he stacked SSB on top of UI?
Blue is still a Super Saiyan transformation: while it's much better than the normal Super Saiyan transformation, it still applies it would degrade the UI performance for the same reason I stated for normal SS.

UI is the "Ultimate Base State" and Toriyama always been on "Base Is Better"
Where and when has Toriyama or the show itself has ever stated any of this? This sounds like pure headcanon.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:31 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:43 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:41 pm
ruler9871 wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:07 pm
How strong would Goku be if he stacked SSB on top of UI?
Blue is still a Super Saiyan transformation: while it's much better than the normal Super Saiyan transformation, it still applies it would degrade the UI performance for the same reason I stated for normal SS.

UI is the "Ultimate Base State" and Toriyama always been on "Base Is Better"
Where and when has Toriyama or the show itself has ever stated any of this? This sounds like pure headcanon.
from https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... mysteries/
Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.
which is coherent with how Old Kaioshin dismissed the Super Saiyan transformation

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by ruler9871 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:23 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:31 pm
ruler9871 wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:43 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:41 pm

Blue is still a Super Saiyan transformation: while it's much better than the normal Super Saiyan transformation, it still applies it would degrade the UI performance for the same reason I stated for normal SS.

UI is the "Ultimate Base State" and Toriyama always been on "Base Is Better"
Where and when has Toriyama or the show itself has ever stated any of this? This sounds like pure headcanon.
from https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... mysteries/
Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more.
which is coherent with how Old Kaioshin dismissed the Super Saiyan transformation
No it isn't because:

1. If this was the case then Toriyama would not have introduced yet another SSJ transformation in BoG (and another in RoF). And he would of had Goku & Vegeta no longer using transformations at all if Toriyama was trying to say "base is better".

2. UI itself is yet another transformation, so it logically isn't a "Ultimate Base State".

So your "Base Is Better" claim is headcanon nonsense.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by emperior » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:02 am

Ultra Instinct is a technique that lets the users’ body move on its own, so it should be compatible with every transformation in theory. Every instance in which Goku has achieved Ultra Instinct, so far, he was always in his normal state so I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of a Super Saiyan Ultra Instinct in the future once Goku truly masters it.
It wouldn’t really be my cup of tea though, because it sort of goes in contrast with what the technique represents, and I actually hope that, to subvert expectations, Toriyama actually has Goku “go back” to only use his normal state, alongside Ultra Instinct, once he truly masters it.
To me, it should represent the Ultimate state, one which elevates the user to his absolute best as far as Ki usage and strength goes, which means that Goku would be able to fight at the best of his physical capabilities without undergoing any sort of physical change. Now, whether or not they keep the silver hair and eyes makes no difference to me, as it’s a visual cue for the technique, although I would probably prefer it if no change occurred at all.
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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:17 am

For the sake of additional media & merchandise, Goku can probably mix UI with whatever form he wishes. If there needed to be an "ultimate" figurine of Goku then it could very possibly be FPSSJB3MUI Kaio-ken x20 Hakaishin Angel Zeno Zalama Goku just as long as it sells.
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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by The Monkey King » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:39 am

I theorise that such a thing would be impossible,

As I believe that not only does ultra instinct allow the body to move and act without thinking or strain but also allows the body to access all of its potential strength without thought or strain either.

This is why UI Goku's punches hurt Jiren while SSJB Kaio-Ken did nothing.
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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:50 pm

If there's a SSJ version of god form, then there's undoubtedly a SSJ version of ultra instinct.
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Re: Is it possible for Ultra Instinct Goku to turn Super Saiyan?

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:57 am

Super Saiyan already reached its limit with Blue. I don’t see how it can mix with Ultra Instinct, which is supposed to be the ultimate form.

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