Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

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Hulk10
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Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Hulk10 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:21 pm

If one were to revive those killed during the Saiyan Genocide I wonder who would be the next Saiyan King after Vegeta III. Vegeta IV is unlikely to be interested in ruling his planet without Bulma. And Tarble is unlikely to want to leave his own wife. So who would be the heir?
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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Lionel » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:45 am

Probably some non-direct heir like a brother to the king, nephew, or cousin. If none of these people are available then perhaps the wife of the king could act as a steward until someone is found (assuming that it has to be a king).

In my opinion, though, the Saiyans shouldn't be brought back. For the most part they were a bloodthirsty warring people who likely perpetrated untold numbers of massacres across the universe. If anyone, the Tuffles should be brought back (assuming they weren't like the Saiyans in any way). Vegeta is penitent about his past crimes? Well while he may not have been alive during the time of the Tuffle genocide, he could still offer his help and make an attempt at reconciling. It would be interesting to see the Tuffles offering their technology to Earth's fighters and Bulma for use -- or was that already seized by Vegeta or the Planet Trade Organisation?

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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:05 am

Lionel wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:45 am
Probably some non-direct heir like a brother to the king, nephew, or cousin. If none of these people are available then perhaps the wife of the king could act as a steward until someone is found (assuming that it has to be a king).

In my opinion, though, the Saiyans shouldn't be brought back. For the most part they were a bloodthirsty warring people who likely perpetrated untold numbers of massacres across the universe. If anyone, the Tuffles should be brought back (assuming they weren't like the Saiyans in any way). Vegeta is penitent about his past crimes? Well while he may not have been alive during the time of the Tuffle genocide, he could still offer his help and make an attempt at reconciling. It would be interesting to see the Tuffles offering their technology to Earth's fighters and Bulma for use -- or was that already seized by Vegeta or the Planet Trade Organisation?
I can respect your opinion even though I don't entirely agree with it. But who says we can't bring both races back and reform both Planet Plant and Planet Sadala? (I do agree with your input on the succession, and your right, who says it has to be a king? It could be a queen.)
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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Lionel » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:15 am

Hulk10 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:05 am
Lionel wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:45 am
Probably some non-direct heir like a brother to the king, nephew, or cousin. If none of these people are available then perhaps the wife of the king could act as a steward until someone is found (assuming that it has to be a king).

In my opinion, though, the Saiyans shouldn't be brought back. For the most part they were a bloodthirsty warring people who likely perpetrated untold numbers of massacres across the universe. If anyone, the Tuffles should be brought back (assuming they weren't like the Saiyans in any way). Vegeta is penitent about his past crimes? Well while he may not have been alive during the time of the Tuffle genocide, he could still offer his help and make an attempt at reconciling. It would be interesting to see the Tuffles offering their technology to Earth's fighters and Bulma for use -- or was that already seized by Vegeta or the Planet Trade Organisation?
I can respect your opinion even though I don't entirely agree with it. But who says we can't bring both races back and reform both Planet Plant and Planet Sadala? (I do agree with your input on the succession, and your right, who says it has to be a king? It could be a queen.)
Well it's possible. Although I think creating two distinct planets for them to reside on might be better, at least as a short term goal, since the Saiyans would be the ones holding all the aces from a martial standpoint. Unless Vegeta and Earth's fighters decided to get involved directly in the affairs, the Saiyans could very easily perform a repeat of their past actions and wipe out the newly revived Tuffles while claiming their planet for their own. You then would have Freeza who probably wouldn't be too happy to hear that the feared species he virtually wiped out was brought back.

It could be a queen. What I'm wondering is if this person was the wife of King Vegeta, they would presumably be pretty old themselves. If no children are willing to step up to the plate then who succeeds her?

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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Hulk10 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:51 am

Lionel wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:15 am
Hulk10 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:05 am
Lionel wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:45 am
Probably some non-direct heir like a brother to the king, nephew, or cousin. If none of these people are available then perhaps the wife of the king could act as a steward until someone is found (assuming that it has to be a king).

In my opinion, though, the Saiyans shouldn't be brought back. For the most part they were a bloodthirsty warring people who likely perpetrated untold numbers of massacres across the universe. If anyone, the Tuffles should be brought back (assuming they weren't like the Saiyans in any way). Vegeta is penitent about his past crimes? Well while he may not have been alive during the time of the Tuffle genocide, he could still offer his help and make an attempt at reconciling. It would be interesting to see the Tuffles offering their technology to Earth's fighters and Bulma for use -- or was that already seized by Vegeta or the Planet Trade Organisation?
I can respect your opinion even though I don't entirely agree with it. But who says we can't bring both races back and reform both Planet Plant and Planet Sadala? (I do agree with your input on the succession, and your right, who says it has to be a king? It could be a queen.)
Well it's possible. Although I think creating two distinct planets for them to reside on might be better, at least as a short term goal, since the Saiyans would be the ones holding all the aces from a martial standpoint. Unless Vegeta and Earth's fighters decided to get involved directly in the affairs, the Saiyans could very easily perform a repeat of their past actions and wipe out the newly revived Tuffles while claiming their planet for their own. You then would have Freeza who probably wouldn't be too happy to hear that the feared species he virtually wiped out was brought back.

It could be a queen. What I'm wondering is if this person was the wife of King Vegeta, they would presumably be pretty old themselves. If no children are willing to step up to the plate then who succeeds her?

I do agree that two separate planets would be best. But why not have a few warriors around like the Time Patrol to help them change their ways and help them fight off Frieza. (In Xenoverse 2 Frieza offers to let the Saiyan Future Warrior rebuild the Saiyans.)

Yeah I wonder who would succeed the wife of King Vegeta?
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In the name of the mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I will never again bow to your charge! But I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking to Unicron controlled Megatron.

The arrogance of man is thinking that we are in control of our destiny. Let them fight. -Dr. Ishiro Serizawa to Admiral William Stenz.

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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Lionel » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:59 am

Hulk10 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:51 am
Lionel wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:15 am
Hulk10 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:05 am


I can respect your opinion even though I don't entirely agree with it. But who says we can't bring both races back and reform both Planet Plant and Planet Sadala? (I do agree with your input on the succession, and your right, who says it has to be a king? It could be a queen.)
Well it's possible. Although I think creating two distinct planets for them to reside on might be better, at least as a short term goal, since the Saiyans would be the ones holding all the aces from a martial standpoint. Unless Vegeta and Earth's fighters decided to get involved directly in the affairs, the Saiyans could very easily perform a repeat of their past actions and wipe out the newly revived Tuffles while claiming their planet for their own. You then would have Freeza who probably wouldn't be too happy to hear that the feared species he virtually wiped out was brought back.

It could be a queen. What I'm wondering is if this person was the wife of King Vegeta, they would presumably be pretty old themselves. If no children are willing to step up to the plate then who succeeds her?

I do agree that two separate planets would be best. But why not have a few warriors around like the Time Patrol to help them change their ways and help them fight off Frieza. (In Xenoverse 2 Frieza offers to let the Saiyan Future Warrior rebuild the Saiyans.)

Yeah I wonder who would succeed the wife of King Vegeta?
I'm not familiar with the Time Patrol (haven't really played any of the games outside of Supersonic Warriors, Legacy of Goku 2 and Buu's Fury for the GBA). Someone powerful enough would have to be available to keep Freeza in check. If he has access to his golden form then the only ones in Universe 7 who could do anything would be Earth's fighters or Beerus. We know what the likelihood of Beerus intervening on behalf of the Saiyans is. If anything, he probably would blow up the planet himself out of frustration of his will not being respected (he having been the one to order for Planet Vegeta's destruction according to Super).

If no one from King Vegeta's family is available then maybe a member of the queen's family? The member would have to be someone powerful in order for him to be accepted by the Saiyan people, I think.

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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by ulisa » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:29 am

Depends on what type of succession they use. It seems most people are assuming Primogeniture or eldest male heir which is certainly the norm throughout history. In this case, if Vegeta and Tarble refused or were not allowed due their marriage (and I’m assuming Trunks would be considered illegitimate in that case) then as a general rule, it goes to the king’s brother or nephews. If none are available, you’d trade back to any uncles the king had and then their male children. If still none, the king’s grandfather’s brothers and their male descendants and so on. A Queen typically cannot rule in her own right just by being married to the king. She can serve as regent until her son comes of age but except in cases were there is literally no male to take the crown, she’d not be considered able to rule.
Now if gender doesn’t matter and it’s eldest heir, you’d still have to trace the king’s lineage not the Queen’s. It’s the monarch who can rule in their own right’s bloodline.
But this is also assuming Saiyans use a similar inheritance rule but that might not be true. It wouldn’t surprise me if dynasties are ended by another line killing the king and taking over...
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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Hulk10 » Thu May 02, 2019 10:17 pm

I imagine that Saiyans have a similar succession cycle to humans but geared more towards fighting ability rather than sex. So a male or a female Saiyan could rule in their own right. Since Saiyans are not humans we can't be sure that Saiyan Queens can't rule in their own right.
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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Rubens » Fri May 03, 2019 7:28 am

Knowing saiyans, I'd say they would probably just fight it out and the strongest would become the king/queen.
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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Hulk10 » Fri May 03, 2019 8:52 am

Rubens wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 7:28 am
Knowing saiyans, I'd say they would probably just fight it out and the strongest would become the king/queen.
Yeah that would be the simplest solution to the problem.
Hulk is strongest one there is. -Incredible Hulk

In the name of the mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I will never again bow to your charge! But I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking to Unicron controlled Megatron.

The arrogance of man is thinking that we are in control of our destiny. Let them fight. -Dr. Ishiro Serizawa to Admiral William Stenz.

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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Eire » Fri May 03, 2019 1:27 pm

ulisa wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:29 am
Depends on what type of succession they use. It seems most people are assuming Primogeniture or eldest male heir which is certainly the norm throughout history.
No, it isn't. It's fairly new concept that in Europe took roots after High Middle Ages and never caught on in other parts of the world. Salic law that excluded females was also fairly new and never universally adapted. And frankly, I find it boring, there's so many other patterns to choose from. If Tolkien could make Numenorans egalitarian so can every fantasy writer.

In most places rulers named their heir among living male children considering political factors and their personal preferences. In case of polygamous marriages one of the most important things was the rank and alliances made by heir's mother that guaranteed him support.
If the dynasty died out aristocracy tended to find someone suitable from cadet branches or descendants by female line . And that allowed girls as well- in Poland aristocracy resorted crowning female King (daughter and later sister of ruling monarch) on her own right and then look for husband for her. Or invite foreigners to establish new dynasty to prevent one house to rise over others.
Or whoever was the strongest seized the throne and legitimacy arised later, often in form of miraculously found dynasty records.
But the concept that for me fits Sayians the most is election- once very widespread especially in tribal communities where future king was chosen by eligible "citizens". It was often for lifetime and often children of the lords were groomed into position but the chain of legacy was in no way smooth and personal power played a big role.

In that case I wonder what would Vegeta say and do in this hypothetical scenario. I think that it would be natural that at least some of revived Sayians would ask him to claim his throne and I would be delighted to see the scenario where he doesn't want to but have to prevent someone worse from taking it. From what Bardock said I have an impression that Vegeta III wasn't universally liked and respected but blamed for the situation with King Cold and later Frieza. Not enough to cause the opposition to rise but enough to cause troubles for next generation.

There's also the problem with Vegeta's mother and her position. Since she is nowhere to be found or mentioned I strongly suspect that it was smething worse than your typical politically arranged marriage. Maybe she was a heiress or survivor of the slaughtered rebel clan that Vegeta Senior took as a wife to secure an alliance. In my speculation she survived because she run off and never looked back. :)
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Re: Reviving those who died in the Saiyan Genocide.

Post by Hulk10 » Fri May 03, 2019 11:23 pm

Eire wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 1:27 pm
ulisa wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:29 am
Depends on what type of succession they use. It seems most people are assuming Primogeniture or eldest male heir which is certainly the norm throughout history.
No, it isn't. It's fairly new concept that in Europe took roots after High Middle Ages and never caught on in other parts of the world. Salic law that excluded females was also fairly new and never universally adapted. And frankly, I find it boring, there's so many other patterns to choose from. If Tolkien could make Numenorans egalitarian so can every fantasy writer.

In most places rulers named their heir among living male children considering political factors and their personal preferences. In case of polygamous marriages one of the most important things was the rank and alliances made by heir's mother that guaranteed him support.
If the dynasty died out aristocracy tended to find someone suitable from cadet branches or descendants by female line . And that allowed girls as well- in Poland aristocracy resorted crowning female King (daughter and later sister of ruling monarch) on her own right and then look for husband for her. Or invite foreigners to establish new dynasty to prevent one house to rise over others.
Or whoever was the strongest seized the throne and legitimacy arised later, often in form of miraculously found dynasty records.
But the concept that for me fits Sayians the most is election- once very widespread especially in tribal communities where future king was chosen by eligible "citizens". It was often for lifetime and often children of the lords were groomed into position but the chain of legacy was in no way smooth and personal power played a big role.

In that case I wonder what would Vegeta say and do in this hypothetical scenario. I think that it would be natural that at least some of revived Sayians would ask him to claim his throne and I would be delighted to see the scenario where he doesn't want to but have to prevent someone worse from taking it. From what Bardock said I have an impression that Vegeta III wasn't universally liked and respected but blamed for the situation with King Cold and later Frieza. Not enough to cause the opposition to rise but enough to cause troubles for next generation.

There's also the problem with Vegeta's mother and her position. Since she is nowhere to be found or mentioned I strongly suspect that it was smething worse than your typical politically arranged marriage. Maybe she was a heiress or survivor of the slaughtered rebel clan that Vegeta Senior took as a wife to secure an alliance. In my speculation she survived because she run off and never looked back. :)
You mean Vegeta IV Bardock said that he wouldn't want to be stuck on a ship with Prince Vegeta. However I do agree with your statements about historical succession.
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In the name of the mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I will never again bow to your charge! But I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking to Unicron controlled Megatron.

The arrogance of man is thinking that we are in control of our destiny. Let them fight. -Dr. Ishiro Serizawa to Admiral William Stenz.

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