Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:15 am

sunsetshimmer wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:12 am
QuakingStar wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:23 pm Back again after a long while, SFPS4 Limits Broken can be achieved without outside help. Broly did it showing it is possible.
Broly doesn't know what "impossible" means. Everything is possible for that guy.
Both of you are correct I'd say.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Locutus » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:27 am

That's not how I see it, I honestly think Babys Golden Oozaru boost is on top of his super baby 2 form, so 4000x super baby 2.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:38 am

Locutus wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:27 am That's not how I see it, I honestly think Babys Golden Oozaru boost is on top of his super baby 2 form, so 4000x super baby 2.
That's probably how it is. Despite some weird theories about Baby reaching SSJ2 and SSJ3, his Super Baby forms are his own evolutions inside Vegeta's body. Transforming into golden oozaru would give him the same power multiplier no matter if he was in regular SSJ state or Super Baby 2 state, what changes is his pre-transformation base power only. If he transformed into golden oozaru without his Super Baby forms he would be weaker than what we saw in series. Super Baby 2 is still Vegeta SSJ under it, just stronger.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:19 pm

I don’t think the Saiyans and Baby’s transformations share the same multiplier. The Tsufurians seem to have their own evolution line. It’s just that they need a Saiyan body to tap into their full potential.

Considering that Baby comfortably handled SS3 Goku, with his host only being capable of mustering SS1 at the moment, the power-up between each Tsufurian form could be even greater.

That’s only a reminder that SS4 happens to be such a monster. It completely covers the difference between SS3 Goku and Baby’s strongest form. Probably the difference between SS3 and SS4 is much greater than the difference between a Golden Great Ape and a regular Super Saiyan.

So, if Baby gets like 100 times more powerful after transforming into a Golden Great Ape, SS3 Goku could get about 1,000-fold to compensate.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Locutus » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:00 am

sunsetshimmer wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:38 am
Locutus wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:27 am That's not how I see it, I honestly think Babys Golden Oozaru boost is on top of his super baby 2 form, so 4000x super baby 2.
That's probably how it is. Despite some weird theories about Baby reaching SSJ2 and SSJ3, his Super Baby forms are his own evolutions inside Vegeta's body. Transforming into golden oozaru would give him the same power multiplier no matter if he was in regular SSJ state or Super Baby 2 state, what changes is his pre-transformation base power only. If he transformed into golden oozaru without his Super Baby forms he would be weaker than what we saw in series. Super Baby 2 is still Vegeta SSJ under it, just stronger.

Yeah, for whatever reason the fanbase has an aversion to huge boosts in the series for whatever reason. There's nothing suggesting that the Oozaru multiplier for Baby Vegeta for example, does some weird loophole that makes it so GO doesn't stack on top of his final form.

Super Saiyan 4 just honestly has a huge multiplier, it is the final Super Saiyan form for a reason pre DBS.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:09 pm

Let's put this in perspective. The power a user gains from SS4 is directly compared to the power gain that potara gave Goku with Vegito and as Herms pointed out it is likely including a hypothetical SS3 Vegito and pre DBS the Potara formula was user A x user B. So even assuming Goku and Vegeta's power levels were each 3,000,000 then it would be 3,000,000 x 3,000,000 = base vegito, then you multiply that by 50 for SS, 100 for SS2 and 400 for SS3. THAT is the ASTRONOMICAL amount of power that the SS4 form gives its user. Also to mentions is that it only QUESTIONS if a hypothetical Vegito would be stronger than SS4 meaning they have doubts. SS4 is supremely underestimated in then fandom.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:05 pm

In Fighterz Gohan says the Super Saiyan 4 form is nothing like Super Saiyan Blue or Ultra Instinct and is the most powerful thing he has ever seen. He has seen Fusion Dance via Gotenks, he has seen Super Saiyan Gotenks and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks. He has seen Goku and Vegeta before Fusion in all of their forms. So he is most assuredly referring to the Super Saiyan 4 form alone. It's just FighterZ but that's still pretty cool.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:54 pm

https://twitter.com/GodlyFlat/status/13 ... 74308?s=20 turns out the english localization added a line. No actual power comparisons were made really

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by theherodjl » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:31 am

QuakingStar wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:54 pm https://twitter.com/GodlyFlat/status/13 ... 74308?s=20 turns out the english localization added a line. No actual power comparisons were made really
Good. Now SSJ4 Gogeta fanboys can go crawl back under a rock until the next false alarm is sounded. :mrgreen:
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:38 pm

No, the Gogeta's themselves even wonder which form is more powerful meanining that Gogeta Blue who can sense normal Ki and knows SSB's power isn't even sure which is stronger between SSB and SS4.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:55 pm

This is a debate that will never end. But I always side with the SSJ4 ones. Even if I moderate my views.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by miguelnuva1 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:14 pm

QuakingStar wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:38 pm No, the Gogeta's themselves even wonder which form is more powerful meanining that Gogeta Blue who can sense normal Ki and knows SSB's power isn't even sure which is stronger between SSB and SS4.
And in another game Xeno Goku says SSB is stronger.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:50 pm

I feel like SSB is stronger for no other reason than SSj 4 not relying quite so strongly on asspull power. It's really hard for me to picture SSj4 Goku getting out of time-skip just by powering up.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:18 pm

The only media that matters for comparing Blue and 4's power are the Heroes Anime and Manga. Blue and 4 are more or less equal forms there.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Grimlock » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:42 pm

No, when it comes to Heroes, the arcade is the medium that matters. Anime and manga are merely its adaptation.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:41 pm

The arcade is a video game, therefor it does not matter. They specifically omit and change things from the arcade version for the manga and even the anime. The arcade game only matters to the arcade game in terms of story and content. While the anime and manga also have differences to each other meaning the anime only matters to the anime and the manga only matters to the manga. In the manga and in the anime they treat SS4 and SSBlue as equals.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by miguelnuva1 » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:30 am

QuakingStar wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:41 pm The arcade is a video game, therefor it does not matter. They specifically omit and change things from the arcade version for the manga and even the anime. The arcade game only matters to the arcade game in terms of story and content. While the anime and manga also have differences to each other meaning the anime only matters to the anime and the manga only matters to the manga. In the manga and in the anime they treat SS4 and SSBlue as equals.
The Heroes arcade is the orginal source. In arcade and the manga Xeno Goku is more tired fighting blue than Blue Goku os fighting ss4.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Grimlock » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:57 am

QuakingStar wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:41 pm The arcade is a video game, therefor it does not matter.
What's next? The original manga doesn't matter (because it's paper) but Toei's anime does? :lol:
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:43 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:30 am
QuakingStar wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:41 pm The arcade is a video game, therefor it does not matter. They specifically omit and change things from the arcade version for the manga and even the anime. The arcade game only matters to the arcade game in terms of story and content. While the anime and manga also have differences to each other meaning the anime only matters to the anime and the manga only matters to the manga. In the manga and in the anime they treat SS4 and SSBlue as equals.
The Heroes arcade is the orginal source. In arcade and the manga Xeno Goku is more tired fighting blue than Blue Goku os fighting ss4.
I wouldn't use that element as proof: we don't "see" Goku:CC panting, be he's also speaking second and the next sentence has Goku:Xeno showing no sign of fatigue.
So, kinda unreliable.

What is VERY reliable is Goku:Xeno himself stating, explicitly, that Goku:CC in Blue is about one step stronger.

Of course, one has to remember Goku:Xeno is a much older Goku with different experiences.
It's both possible Goku:Xeno's base is so much higher than Goku:CC's that it lets him cover the difference in transformation power
Or, viceversa, SS4 is such a mighty transformation that let's an otherwise weaker non-God-Ki Goku:Xeno fight almost on par with with Blue.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Xeno Goku » Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:01 am

ankokudaishogun wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:43 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:30 am
QuakingStar wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:41 pm The arcade is a video game, therefor it does not matter. They specifically omit and change things from the arcade version for the manga and even the anime. The arcade game only matters to the arcade game in terms of story and content. While the anime and manga also have differences to each other meaning the anime only matters to the anime and the manga only matters to the manga. In the manga and in the anime they treat SS4 and SSBlue as equals.
The Heroes arcade is the orginal source. In arcade and the manga Xeno Goku is more tired fighting blue than Blue Goku os fighting ss4.
I wouldn't use that element as proof: we don't "see" Goku:CC panting, be he's also speaking second and the next sentence has Goku:Xeno showing no sign of fatigue.
So, kinda unreliable.

What is VERY reliable is Goku:Xeno himself stating, explicitly, that Goku:CC in Blue is about one step stronger.

Of course, one has to remember Goku:Xeno is a much older Goku with different experiences.
It's both possible Goku:Xeno's base is so much higher than Goku:CC's that it lets him cover the difference in transformation power
Or, viceversa, SS4 is such a mighty transformation that let's an otherwise weaker non-God-Ki Goku:Xeno fight almost on par with with Blue.
You forget Xeno Goku and Xeno Vegeta appeared to help CC Goku. Both of them is equal to SSJ Cumber and later fusion into Vegito to fight against SSJ3 Cumber.

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