Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Shintoki » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:24 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:08 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:35 pm The dub had nothing to do with not explaining Gt.

Goku's form againts Baby was SS4 at full power, but Goku's SS4 had increased in power from earlier.

Ss4 healed him of his damage.
It did. Dub skipped some important things that make people confused today. Like how many times did i see people laughing at SFPS4 being added to Dokkan or Legends and asking "wtf is that name" or mispelling it as "SSJ4 Full Power" thinking it's how it's supposed to be called and that it's the form he used against Baby which is just bullshit.

People also keep asking how was Super 17 so strong when he is only 2 times stronger than regular #17, when sub version not only didn't say anything like that, but also made it clear that hell Fighter 17 was much stronger than original 17. In sub version Vegeta was shocked that HF17 (who he thought is regular 17) can fight on par with him in his base form saying that he "powered up beyond belief", while dub version made Vegeta calling HF17's power a joke compared to his own and Super 17 state he is only twice as strong as original 17 even though that would make him weaker than Perfect Cell was. Not to mention much stronger version of Perfect Cell in GT was humiliated by base Goku, who then needed SSJ4 against Super 17. Did they even think about keeping any logic while translating it?

Another example of dub mistakes is never calling Kamehameha x10 by its name (just calling it Kamehameha) and calling two handed Final Shine Attack as "Final Flash". First one caused people to think Goku didn't use Kamehameha x10 until Super 17 because they think this attack is red colored even though it was blue in Baby saga. The latter caused people to think Final Shine is one handed technique and that GT gave wrong color to Final Flash. That thing even made it to games.

English dub for GT was just trash.
once again, incredible breakdown. many appreciation and gratitue for your contribution in clarifying this matter .
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Shintoki » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:33 pm

in regards to goku saying baby vegeta was the strongest thing he ever felt. does that cover Buuhan as well? i know this is a bit of a debated topic but i'd be curious to hear your thoughts about this, fellas.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:26 pm

Shintoki wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:33 pm in regards to goku saying baby vegeta was the strongest thing he ever felt. does that cover Buuhan as well? i know this is a bit of a debated topic but i'd be curious to hear your thoughts about this, fellas.
I prefer to leave everything out of the GT scope out of any debate concerning powerlevel lines from GT. So, it’s safe to assume Baby was the strongest enemy Goku has encountered in DBGT alone.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by miguelnuva1 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:13 pm

Shintoki wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:33 pm in regards to goku saying baby vegeta was the strongest thing he ever felt. does that cover Buuhan as well? i know this is a bit of a debated topic but i'd be curious to hear your thoughts about this, fellas.
Baby suprassed Vegito when he powered up.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Shintoki » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:59 am

miguelnuva1 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:13 pm
Shintoki wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:33 pm in regards to goku saying baby vegeta was the strongest thing he ever felt. does that cover Buuhan as well? i know this is a bit of a debated topic but i'd be curious to hear your thoughts about this, fellas.
Baby suprassed Vegito when he powered up.
Vegetto? was there a statement about this? cuz i only remember that line I posted [may need to rewatch] so i can't tell where this comes from? or is it an educated guess? :?

cuz i have my reservations about this since goku never includes himself [and by extention, vegetto] when referring to whatever strongest ki he may have felt, the precedent being fat janemba being the strongest thing he felt until goku transformed into SS3 and easily beat him. :idea:
Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:26 pm
Shintoki wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:33 pm in regards to goku saying baby vegeta was the strongest thing he ever felt. does that cover Buuhan as well? i know this is a bit of a debated topic but i'd be curious to hear your thoughts about this, fellas.
I prefer to leave everything out of the GT scope out of any debate concerning powerlevel lines from GT. So, it’s safe to assume Baby was the strongest enemy Goku has encountered in DBGT alone.
yeah. considering he pushed goku to use SS4, i can see why.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:44 am

Shintoki wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:33 pm in regards to goku saying baby vegeta was the strongest thing he ever felt. does that cover Buuhan as well? i know this is a bit of a debated topic but i'd be curious to hear your thoughts about this, fellas.
Yeah, for sure he included Buuhan. Even though he wasn't "himself" when he sensed Buuhan, the context of the comment doesn't really take into account how Goku got to sense that, besides even if it wasn't his brain, Buuhan's ki signature must be printed in his memories. That benchmark should not be Vegito's eyes only.

For me, the actual question is "did he include Vegito's power?". And that's when it gets tricky. It doesn't make much sense to "feel your own ki", but more importantly, it's an awful way to phrase the fact that these new power surpasses, too, the power you had the time you were fused with somebody else. Surely, there's a better way to say that without having people so confused about it, and don't call me Shirley.

But it could be possible, though. Baby got that strong by absorbing the power of the other saiyans, we've seen in the Broly movie, with SS4, twice, and in BoG that by that you can become quite strong. Although, I don't remember if Goku said that about Initial Vegeta Baby (white haired) or about the next form(prior to his final form)... I can buy that if it was about the second one.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Shintoki » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:43 am

Koitsukai wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:44 am
Shintoki wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:33 pm in regards to goku saying baby vegeta was the strongest thing he ever felt. does that cover Buuhan as well? i know this is a bit of a debated topic but i'd be curious to hear your thoughts about this, fellas.
Yeah, for sure he included Buuhan. Even though he wasn't "himself" when he sensed Buuhan, the context of the comment doesn't really take into account how Goku got to sense that, besides even if it wasn't his brain, Buuhan's ki signature must be printed in his memories. That benchmark should not be Vegito's eyes only.

For me, the actual question is "did he include Vegito's power?". And that's when it gets tricky. It doesn't make much sense to "feel your own ki", but more importantly, it's an awful way to phrase the fact that these new power surpasses, too, the power you had the time you were fused with somebody else. Surely, there's a better way to say that without having people so confused about it, and don't call me Shirley.

But it could be possible, though. Baby got that strong by absorbing the power of the other saiyans, we've seen in the Broly movie, with SS4, twice, and in BoG that by that you can become quite strong. Although, I don't remember if Goku said that about Initial Vegeta Baby (white haired) or about the next form(prior to his final form)... I can buy that if it was about the second one.
Imo, IT's a very slim possibility. while the broly movie goku and SS4 goku amped themselves to a new level by doing just that [BOG excluded since it's meant to be a different procedure] process, it doesn't really tend to last much and is just a temporary power up needed to only give you just about enough to beat your rival swifty, in this case being super baby 1 vs goku.

and then there is the whole thing about goku implying his adult form as an SS3-jin would have handled super baby 2 well as his kid form was unable to maintain the power of SS3 well. thus by association, a hypothetical adult SS3 goku would be comparable to vegito as well. and i just can't see that being a thing. :idea:

especially when we have a precedent of goku saying the exact thing about another (janemba) but not including himself.
Last edited by Shintoki on Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:58 am

Shintoki wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:43 am
Koitsukai wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:44 am
Shintoki wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:33 pm in regards to goku saying baby vegeta was the strongest thing he ever felt. does that cover Buuhan as well? i know this is a bit of a debated topic but i'd be curious to hear your thoughts about this, fellas.
Yeah, for sure he included Buuhan. Even though he wasn't "himself" when he sensed Buuhan, the context of the comment doesn't really take into account how Goku got to sense that, besides even if it wasn't his brain, Buuhan's ki signature must be printed in his memories. That benchmark should not be Vegito's eyes only.

For me, the actual question is "did he include Vegito's power?". And that's when it gets tricky. It doesn't make much sense to "feel your own ki", but more importantly, it's an awful way to phrase the fact that these new power surpasses, too, the power you had the time you were fused with somebody else. Surely, there's a better way to say that without having people so confused about it, and don't call me Shirley.

But it could be possible, though. Baby got that strong by absorbing the power of the other saiyans, we've seen in the Broly movie, with SS4, twice, and in BoG that by that you can become quite strong. Although, I don't remember if Goku said that about Initial Vegeta Baby (white haired) or about the next form(prior to his final form)... I can buy that if it was about the second one.
Imo, IT's a very slim possibility. while the broly movie goku and SS4 goku amped themselves to a new level by doing just that [BOG excluded since it's meant to be a different procedure] process, it doesn't really tend to last much and is just temporary power up needed to only give you just about enough to beat your rival swifty, in this case being super baby 1 vs goku.

and then there is the whole thing about goku implying his adult form as an SS3-jin would have handled super baby 2 well as his kid form was unable to maintain the power of SS3 well. thus by association, a hypothetical adult SS3 goku would be comparable to vegito as well. and i just can't see that being a thing. :idea:

especially when we have a precedent of goku saying the exact thing about another (janemba) but not including himself.
Yeah, I don't buy it with that statement alone, it's a weird way to convey that kind of information, who speaks like that? you have to be actively trying to get that out of it to conclude he was talking about Vegito as well.

However, if Baby surpassed Buuhan, then he might not be that far off Vegito, and after that he has two more forms (again, I can't remember if Goku said that about the normal white-haired Vegeta Baby or the one with big shoulder pads prior to the iconic Vegeta Baby we all know). Also, Baby did get to keep that power, he ended up getting a final form after absorbing every tsufuru.

We know GT SS4 and GT Super Vegito are suppose to be equals, according to an official guide, so at least we know where GT Vegito would rank.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Shintoki » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:28 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:58 am
Shintoki wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:43 am
Koitsukai wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:44 am

Yeah, for sure he included Buuhan. Even though he wasn't "himself" when he sensed Buuhan, the context of the comment doesn't really take into account how Goku got to sense that, besides even if it wasn't his brain, Buuhan's ki signature must be printed in his memories. That benchmark should not be Vegito's eyes only.

For me, the actual question is "did he include Vegito's power?". And that's when it gets tricky. It doesn't make much sense to "feel your own ki", but more importantly, it's an awful way to phrase the fact that these new power surpasses, too, the power you had the time you were fused with somebody else. Surely, there's a better way to say that without having people so confused about it, and don't call me Shirley.

But it could be possible, though. Baby got that strong by absorbing the power of the other saiyans, we've seen in the Broly movie, with SS4, twice, and in BoG that by that you can become quite strong. Although, I don't remember if Goku said that about Initial Vegeta Baby (white haired) or about the next form(prior to his final form)... I can buy that if it was about the second one.
Imo, IT's a very slim possibility. while the broly movie goku and SS4 goku amped themselves to a new level by doing just that [BOG excluded since it's meant to be a different procedure] process, it doesn't really tend to last much and is just temporary power up needed to only give you just about enough to beat your rival swifty, in this case being super baby 1 vs goku.

and then there is the whole thing about goku implying his adult form as an SS3-jin would have handled super baby 2 well as his kid form was unable to maintain the power of SS3 well. thus by association, a hypothetical adult SS3 goku would be comparable to vegito as well. and i just can't see that being a thing. :idea:

especially when we have a precedent of goku saying the exact thing about another (janemba) but not including himself.
Yeah, I don't buy it with that statement alone, it's a weird way to convey that kind of information, who speaks like that? you have to be actively trying to get that out of it to conclude he was talking about Vegito as well.

However, if Baby surpassed Buuhan, then he might not be that far off Vegito, and after that he has two more forms (again, I can't remember if Goku said that about the normal white-haired Vegeta Baby or the one with big shoulder pads prior to the iconic Vegeta Baby we all know). Also, Baby did get to keep that power, he ended up getting a final form after absorbing every tsufuru.

We know GT SS4 and GT Super Vegito are suppose to be equals, according to an official guide, so at least we know where GT Vegito would rank.
iirc, it was for super baby 1 [the one with the pads before the suit] so the other two forms would be super baby vegeta 2 and then Oozaru baby vegeta.

and while super baby 1 statement most likely does not cover vegetto, i agree that the latter form golden ape baby definitely became above vegetto. :thumbup:
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:40 pm

I don't Goku was comparing Baby to anyone in particular. Baby was just boasting how powerful he had become and Goku agreed. Gohan-Boo had already been surpassed by Rildo back in M2, and probably so was Vegetto. They'd be easy pickings for Baby Saga Goku and SSJ1 Baby Vegeta.

As for the OP, we do see Baby Vegeta in "base" when he ambushes Trunks, so the form he uses before going Super was SSJ1. Strongest Forms 1 and 2 are SSJ2 and 3 was the Perfect Files support.
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Nazi Cola » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:52 am

You have to look at the specifics of the lines being said and the context. The phrasing of Baby's statement requires two things to make it work structurally and logically.

1) By saying he had "now" obtained the greatest power, it means he had just then accomplished the goal, indicating there was a benchmark to surpass prior. Someone had to have been stronger than the form he beat SSJ3 Goku with.
2) Baby specifically mentioned "Saiyan" in his statement, so, well, it was a Saiyan he was referring to, otherwise what is the point of including that?

We witnessed Vegeta-Baby beat SSJ3 Goku before absorbing the power from the half-breeds, so we know he had already passed up Goku, who was the strongest Saiyan in existence up to that point. If Baby was only talking about surpassing Goku as the gateway to him becoming the strongest, why did he wait until he powered up another time to say anything? That would be like Villain beating Boo, then Villain transforms, then someone says Villain "has now surpassed Boo!" Yeah, we already got that when he beat Boo; the transformation and accompanying statement was entirely unnecessary. Baby clapped SSJ3 Goku, thus solidifying himself as the strongest around, then transformed and became even stronger, after which he decided it was appropriate to proclaim himself the greatest. Unless he wasn't actually stronger than SSJ3 Goku (and we know for sure he was), the line only really makes sense if we throw Boo Saga SSJ Vegetto into the mix, despite said fusion not existing at that time, since Vegeta and Goku would both have memories of Vegetto regardless.

People seem to confuse and manufacture what the animanga blurb says about Super Saiyan 4 with "SSJ4 Goku (Baby Saga) is equal to SSJ Vegetto (Boo Saga)" when it doesn't actually say that.

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CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:14 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:40 pm As for the OP, we do see Baby Vegeta in "base" when he ambushes Trunks, so the form he uses before going Super was SSJ1. Strongest Forms 1 and 2 are SSJ2 and 3 was the Perfect Files support.
Perfect Files only said Super Baby 2 looks like SSJ3. I don't think it has anything to do with SSJ3. Strongest Form 1&2 were more like Baby's own transformations. He even achieved them in completely different way than you get super saiyan forms.

About that statement, i believe Goku knows how strong he was as Vegetto and probably meant him. We saw in DBS that Goku was sure that fusing with Vegeta will not be enough to beat Beerus, so he also knew not only how strong they were but also could assume how strong they will be after fusing. And while DBS & GT do not follow each other, it's still the same franchise so i'll take Goku's statement in DBS in favor for GT.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Shintoki » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:42 pm

Nazi Cola wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:52 am -snip-

there is lot to unpack in here. so i'll go step by step
We witnessed Vegeta-Baby beat SSJ3 Goku before absorbing the power from the half-breeds, so we know he had already passed up Goku, who was the strongest Saiyan in existence up to that point
that was super baby 2, the subject in question here is super baby 1.

there is a whole power up at play, and the other implications of goku's kid body being unable to handle SS3 otherwise he would have managed out SB2.
If Baby was only talking about surpassing Goku as the gateway to him becoming the strongest, why did he wait until he powered up another time to say anything?
because he didn't? baby said that when he was super baby 1...
Baby clapped SSJ3 Goku
super baby 2 =/= super baby 1, different subjects
Unless he wasn't actually stronger than SSJ3 Goku
i'm starting to feel you are talking about baby in general rather just super baby 1. :eh: if you are, please feel free to clarify that for me.
the line only really makes sense if we throw Boo Saga SSJ Vegetto into the mix
i'll reiterate, if you are talking about baby as a whole up to Golden ape baby then yes, if only super baby 1 then it really doesn't.
despite said fusion not existing at that time, since Vegeta and Goku would both have memories of Vegetto regardless.
there is already a precedent of goku excluding himself from those comparisons, i don't see why he would make an exception for vegetto.
People seem to confuse and manufacture what the animanga blurb says about Super Saiyan 4 with "SSJ4 Goku (Baby Saga) is equal to SSJ Vegetto (Boo Saga)" when it doesn't actually say that.
Oof, what people? :eh:
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:40 pm I don't Goku was comparing Baby to anyone in particular. Baby was just boasting how powerful he had become and Goku agreed. Gohan-Boo had already been surpassed by Rildo back in M2, and probably so was Vegetto. They'd be easy pickings for Baby Saga Goku and SSJ1 Baby Vegeta.

As for the OP, we do see Baby Vegeta in "base" when he ambushes Trunks, so the form he uses before going Super was SSJ1. Strongest Forms 1 and 2 are SSJ2 and 3 was the Perfect Files support.
Image

why would goku be talking about boohan? the most sensible answer is that he would have been either talking about:
A) mr boo
or
B) pure/majin boo

Mr boo because that's what trunks and pan are familiar with, so they know what benchmark goku is talking about
or
the evil boo's goku fought and stalemated and conteded with in SS3 back then.

super boo was too much for goku back then with the only one to equal him being SS3 gotenks, let alone highter versions.
sunsetshimmer wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:14 am
GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:40 pm -snip-
Perfect Files only said Super Baby 2 looks like SSJ3. I don't think it has anything to do with SSJ3. Strongest Form 1&2 were more like Baby's own transformations. He even achieved them in completely different way than you get super saiyan forms.

About that statement, i believe Goku knows how strong he was as Vegetto and probably meant him. We saw in DBS that Goku was sure that fusing with Vegeta will not be enough to beat Beerus, so he also knew not only how strong they were but also could assume how strong they will be after fusing. And while DBS & GT do not follow each other, it's still the same franchise so i'll take Goku's statement in DBS in favor for GT.
how are those two situations comparable tho?

For beerus, Goku gave his input about a hypothetical SS3 vegetto from the BOG saga with a vegeta that has just surpassed goku.

for baby, goku was stating how he has never felt a ki as amazing as his. by association, this would mean that super baby 1 > SS3 vegetto if we consider that goku is aware how strong a Boo saga SS3 vegetto would have been and it wasn't excluded :?

for me personally, the ony version i see around super vegetto would be Golden oozaru baby in comparison to just an SS1 vegetto. needless to mention SS2/SS3


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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:16 pm

When Baby is proclaiming himself as the strongest, he is probably comparing himself to Goku, as Goku was the strongest person he knew of. I’m not sure why Majin Boo or Vegetto are always brought up on this matter. Baby has access to these memories, but they are only history. The strongest person in the universe in that moment was Goku.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:53 am

Yeah, no way in hell Goku was talking about Buuhan, vs Rildo. Why would he? Trunks and Pan have no idea who that is, he might as well say he is stronger than Hit. Besides, Pan landed a few blows and Goku fought him in base. Gohan also fights Rildo in his base, so everybody would be Buuhan tier in GT even though nobody trains anymore.

It's either Mr. Buu or Kid Buu... missing the term Majin hints it might be Mr. Buu.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:00 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:16 pm When Baby is proclaiming himself as the strongest, he is probably comparing himself to Goku, as Goku was the strongest person he knew of. I’m not sure why Majin Boo or Vegetto are always brought up on this matter. Baby has access to these memories, but they are only history. The strongest person in the universe in that moment was Goku.
Baby had memories of Vegeta as well as his previous hosts so he most likely knew how strong their opponents were as well and how strong Vegetto was. Besides, it's not about what Baby said, but what Goku said about not feeling ki as powerful as his before. So Baby being stronger than any version of Buu is pretty much confirmed. Vegetto thing is unconfirmed.
Koitsukai wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:53 am Yeah, no way in hell Goku was talking about Buuhan, vs Rildo. Why would he? Trunks and Pan have no idea who that is, he might as well say he is stronger than Hit. Besides, Pan landed a few blows and Goku fought him in base. Gohan also fights Rildo in his base, so everybody would be Buuhan tier in GT even though nobody trains anymore.

It's either Mr. Buu or Kid Buu... missing the term Majin hints it might be Mr. Buu.
Gohan officially kept training after Z according to GT Perfect Files. If he didn't, he wouldn't last a second against Rildo no matter which version of Buu was in Goku's mind. In fact, Gohan wasn't even hurt after that fight so he is much stronger than in Z for sure.

Also in one of the interviews with GT writer it was said Gohan became super-warrior when he became Ultimate Gohan and that in Super 17 arc he returned as super-warrior again. Although it's not clear what "super-warrior" means and if he meant that it's the same super-warrior as he was in Buu arc.

Gohan was also very confident on taking on Mr. Buu when he was infected by Baby so he is stronger than him for sure. That means Goku probably meant strongest version of Buu or at least one that is stronger than Gohan, otherwise there would be no reason to say Rildo is even stronger than Buu instead of saying "stronger than Gohan" for example.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:57 am

sunsetshimmer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:00 am
Hugo Boss wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:16 pm When Baby is proclaiming himself as the strongest, he is probably comparing himself to Goku, as Goku was the strongest person he knew of. I’m not sure why Majin Boo or Vegetto are always brought up on this matter. Baby has access to these memories, but they are only history. The strongest person in the universe in that moment was Goku.
Baby had memories of Vegeta as well as his previous hosts so he most likely knew how strong their opponents were as well and how strong Vegetto was. Besides, it's not about what Baby said, but what Goku said about not feeling ki as powerful as his before. So Baby being stronger than any version of Buu is pretty much confirmed. Vegetto thing is unconfirmed.
Koitsukai wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:53 am Yeah, no way in hell Goku was talking about Buuhan, vs Rildo. Why would he? Trunks and Pan have no idea who that is, he might as well say he is stronger than Hit. Besides, Pan landed a few blows and Goku fought him in base. Gohan also fights Rildo in his base, so everybody would be Buuhan tier in GT even though nobody trains anymore.

It's either Mr. Buu or Kid Buu... missing the term Majin hints it might be Mr. Buu.
Gohan officially kept training after Z according to GT Perfect Files. If he didn't, he wouldn't last a second against Rildo no matter which version of Buu was in Goku's mind. In fact, Gohan wasn't even hurt after that fight so he is much stronger than in Z for sure.

Also in one of the interviews with GT writer it was said Gohan became super-warrior when he became Ultimate Gohan and that in Super 17 arc he returned as super-warrior again. Although it's not clear what "super-warrior" means and if he meant that it's the same super-warrior as he was in Buu arc.

Gohan was also very confident on taking on Mr. Buu when he was infected by Baby so he is stronger than him for sure. That means Goku probably meant strongest version of Buu or at least one that is stronger than Gohan, otherwise there would be no reason to say Rildo is even stronger than Buu instead of saying "stronger than Gohan" for example.
Then you should re-read that interview, because it renders GT PF's "official" comment, a moot point. And I won't argue with a writer of the show.

Besides, that was all dropped, he uses SS again in the Omega Shenron arc, so no return of the super-warrior. And no, he was not stacking SS on top of Ultimate.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:57 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:00 am
Hugo Boss wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:16 pm When Baby is proclaiming himself as the strongest, he is probably comparing himself to Goku, as Goku was the strongest person he knew of. I’m not sure why Majin Boo or Vegetto are always brought up on this matter. Baby has access to these memories, but they are only history. The strongest person in the universe in that moment was Goku.
Baby had memories of Vegeta as well as his previous hosts so he most likely knew how strong their opponents were as well and how strong Vegetto was. Besides, it's not about what Baby said, but what Goku said about not feeling ki as powerful as his before. So Baby being stronger than any version of Buu is pretty much confirmed. Vegetto thing is unconfirmed.
Memories of decades ago, which might not be as accurate as you may think.

Yet what really mattered at that point: who was No.1 in Baby’s opinion. He is most likely referring to Goku as having the greatest power prior to his power-up. Goku’s remark is also most likely referring to the power Baby had before transforming, which was rivaling his own. If he wanted to specifically tell Majin Boo was surpassed I guess he would make it clear, like when he compared Rilldo to the good Boo.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:55 pm

Hugo Boss wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:57 pm If he wanted to specifically tell Majin Boo was surpassed I guess he would make it clear, like when he compared Rilldo to the good Boo.
Not really. Rildo was stronger than Buu but weaker than someone like Vegetto or current Goku, so he specified exactly where Rildo's power should be placed. Baby was stronger than anyone else he knew so there is no reason to mention specific person. He was stronger than all of them and that says everything.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:49 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 5:55 pm
Hugo Boss wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:57 pm If he wanted to specifically tell Majin Boo was surpassed I guess he would make it clear, like when he compared Rilldo to the good Boo.
Not really. Rildo was stronger than Buu but weaker than someone like Vegetto or current Goku, so he specified exactly where Rildo's power should be placed. Baby was stronger than anyone else he knew so there is no reason to mention specific person. He was stronger than all of them and that says everything.
He fought the evil Boo 15 years before, while the good Boo was still around and had a familiar ki. There is no reason to assume Goku remembers exactly how large was the evil Boo’s ki after all this time. Not to mention he wasn’t able to have a good reading at Boo’s true power at the time anyway.

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