Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

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ankokudaishogun
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:43 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:11 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:01 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:55 pm
Judging this on the fact that originally base Vegito>=SSj Gogeta
first time I hear this. Source, please?
In dbz, by scaling base vegeth>ssj gogeta because of the multipliers difference.
The "fusions are equals" thing Is valid only from when It was said on, It doesnt overwrite the past in any way
...except that at best it's Base Vegetto>Base Gogeta: back in DBZ, Potara was said to be the best fusion system, but not by how much and if it was a matter of power or just practicability.
And it was old Kaioshin who said that and he has been revealed as a unreliable source

Also, no official multipliers for fusion and potara.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Mad Swami » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:54 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:01 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:55 pm
Judging this on the fact that originally base Vegito>=SSj Gogeta
first time I hear this. Source, please?
Well in the manga and anime (I think) Goku says basically he'd need ssj1 as a hypothetical Gogeta to beat Buutenks. However old Kai explains he would not need ssj with the potara. not to mention before Vegito goes ssj he is overwhelmed by power surprised how strong he is. This is because base Vegito is as strong as or greater than Gogeta ssj. Plus of course divine earrings would make a stronger fused warrior then some technique a group of aliens invented

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:05 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:43 pm
Also, no official multipliers for fusion and potara.
Yes, there is. It's one fusee's power level times the other fusee's power level. And seeing how all transformations and techniques such as Kaio-ken also works with multiplication, it is safe to say that the Metamoru fusion also multiply both fusees' power level.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:41 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:54 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:01 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:55 pm
Judging this on the fact that originally base Vegito>=SSj Gogeta
first time I hear this. Source, please?
Well in the manga and anime (I think) Goku says basically he'd need ssj1 as a hypothetical Gogeta to beat Buutenks. However old Kai explains he would not need ssj with the potara. not to mention before Vegito goes ssj he is overwhelmed by power surprised how strong he is. This is because base Vegito is as strong as or greater than Gogeta ssj. Plus of course divine earrings would make a stronger fused warrior then some technique a group of aliens invented
We've been agreeing a lot, so it was bound to happen we do not, for a change, lol. The base Vegito portion of the fight is anime only, the original story has Vegito going SS from the start like Gogeta vs Janemba.

And you are forgetting that it wasn't going to be Gogeta the one that would've fought Buutenks, but Gokhan. Goku was going to fuse with Gohan, who was almost as strong as Buutenks on his own. Vegeta was dead. So a base Gokhan would destroy Buutenks but probably would need SS to fight Super Gogeta, who would be a bit weaker than SS Vegito due to the rival boost.

In base Gokhan > base Vegito ≥ base Gogeta.

That is assuming Gokhan would've had a normal base and SS forms, maybe the Gohan part dominated and his base-looking ultimate form was all he's got. He would've still needed that form, though.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Mad Swami » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:47 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:41 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:54 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:01 am


first time I hear this. Source, please?
Well in the manga and anime (I think) Goku says basically he'd need ssj1 as a hypothetical Gogeta to beat Buutenks. However old Kai explains he would not need ssj with the potara. not to mention before Vegito goes ssj he is overwhelmed by power surprised how strong he is. This is because base Vegito is as strong as or greater than Gogeta ssj. Plus of course divine earrings would make a stronger fused warrior then some technique a group of aliens invented
We've been agreeing a lot, so it was bound to happen we do not, for a change, lol. The base Vegito portion of the fight is anime only, the original story has Vegito going SS from the start like Gogeta vs Janemba.

And you are forgetting that it wasn't going to be Gogeta the one that would've fought Buutenks, but Gokhan. Goku was going to fuse with Gohan, who was almost as strong as Buutenks on his own. Vegeta was dead. So a base Gokhan would destroy Buutenks but probably would need SS to fight Super Gogeta, who would be a bit weaker than SS Vegito due to the rival boost.

In base Gokhan > base Vegito ≥ base Gogeta.

That is assuming Gokhan would've had a normal base and SS forms, maybe the Gohan part dominated and his base-looking ultimate form was all he's got. He would've still needed that form, though.
Well that's fair they were discussing hypothetical Gokhan. And yes I know the base Vegito fight is filler I was more basing it off of his quick reaction in the manga but still I get what you mean. Yet that still is interesting to me because Goku thinking of a fusion with him and Gohan in the fusion dance would still make a stronger warrior then Gogeta and yet he still thought he'd need ssj. Who knows if Goku fully understands the fusion dance. However I still feel as though it's more logistical for the fusion dance to produce a weaker warrior. Both participants have to align their power where as Potara does not have that downside. Granted I could maybe be over exaggerating the power difference since we never were able to see Gogeta in Z outside of the non cannon movie in which Goku himself was already leagues above himself in the actual timeline. Upon thinking about it maybe I would put Base Gogeta at ssj 1 Goku level and base Vegito at ssj3 level. Honestly running new calculations with that thought in mind I actually really do prefer Base Vegito>=SSJ3 Goku and Base Gogeta>=SSJ1 Goku. Definitely will fix my up coming Power levels, thanks for the help

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:50 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:47 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:41 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:54 pm


Well in the manga and anime (I think) Goku says basically he'd need ssj1 as a hypothetical Gogeta to beat Buutenks. However old Kai explains he would not need ssj with the potara. not to mention before Vegito goes ssj he is overwhelmed by power surprised how strong he is. This is because base Vegito is as strong as or greater than Gogeta ssj. Plus of course divine earrings would make a stronger fused warrior then some technique a group of aliens invented
We've been agreeing a lot, so it was bound to happen we do not, for a change, lol. The base Vegito portion of the fight is anime only, the original story has Vegito going SS from the start like Gogeta vs Janemba.

And you are forgetting that it wasn't going to be Gogeta the one that would've fought Buutenks, but Gokhan. Goku was going to fuse with Gohan, who was almost as strong as Buutenks on his own. Vegeta was dead. So a base Gokhan would destroy Buutenks but probably would need SS to fight Super Gogeta, who would be a bit weaker than SS Vegito due to the rival boost.

In base Gokhan > base Vegito ≥ base Gogeta.

That is assuming Gokhan would've had a normal base and SS forms, maybe the Gohan part dominated and his base-looking ultimate form was all he's got. He would've still needed that form, though.
Well that's fair they were discussing hypothetical Gokhan. And yes I know the base Vegito fight is filler I was more basing it off of his quick reaction in the manga but still I get what you mean. Yet that still is interesting to me because Goku thinking of a fusion with him and Gohan in the fusion dance would still make a stronger warrior then Gogeta and yet he still thought he'd need ssj. Who knows if Goku fully understands the fusion dance. However I still feel as though it's more logistical for the fusion dance to produce a weaker warrior. Both participants have to align their power where as Potara does not have that downside. Granted I could maybe be over exaggerating the power difference since we never were able to see Gogeta in Z outside of the non cannon movie in which Goku himself was already leagues above himself in the actual timeline. Upon thinking about it maybe I would put Base Gogeta at ssj 1 Goku level and base Vegito at ssj3 level. Honestly running new calculations with that thought in mind I actually really do prefer Base Vegito>=SSJ3 Goku and Base Gogeta>=SSJ1 Goku. Definitely will fix my up coming Power levels, thanks for the help
I'll tell you how i think.
Metamor fusion result in base Is Always stronger than the fusees max Power.
In the manga, we see implications of base gotenks being>ssj goten by. Reasonable amount.
Going by that, and counting that metamor fusion considers only the weaker fusee, i usually go for this formula : weaker fusee at full Power X5
That means that base gotenks Is = 250x Goten, and base buu saga Gogeta should be 500x Vegeta (5x ssj2)

The point Is that base vegeth Is said to be stronger than buutenks in El manga legendario, that poses buuhan>=base vegeth>base gokhan>buutenks

So, even lowballing extremely :
Goten 1
Gotenks 250
Ssj gotenks 12'500
Ssj3 gotenks 100'000
Ssj2 Vegeta 18'000
Ssj2 Goku 20'000
Ssj3 Goku 80'000
Base Gogeta 90'000
Super buu 100'000
Buutenks 200'000
Mystic gohan 150'000
Buuhan 250'000
Base vegeth 247'000

And thats still wrong because i didnt calulate the difference between pre rosat and post rosat gotenks, but that was Just to give you a vague idea of that
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Mad Swami » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:04 am

p-hyvo wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:50 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:47 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:41 pm


We've been agreeing a lot, so it was bound to happen we do not, for a change, lol. The base Vegito portion of the fight is anime only, the original story has Vegito going SS from the start like Gogeta vs Janemba.

And you are forgetting that it wasn't going to be Gogeta the one that would've fought Buutenks, but Gokhan. Goku was going to fuse with Gohan, who was almost as strong as Buutenks on his own. Vegeta was dead. So a base Gokhan would destroy Buutenks but probably would need SS to fight Super Gogeta, who would be a bit weaker than SS Vegito due to the rival boost.

In base Gokhan > base Vegito ≥ base Gogeta.

That is assuming Gokhan would've had a normal base and SS forms, maybe the Gohan part dominated and his base-looking ultimate form was all he's got. He would've still needed that form, though.
Well that's fair they were discussing hypothetical Gokhan. And yes I know the base Vegito fight is filler I was more basing it off of his quick reaction in the manga but still I get what you mean. Yet that still is interesting to me because Goku thinking of a fusion with him and Gohan in the fusion dance would still make a stronger warrior then Gogeta and yet he still thought he'd need ssj. Who knows if Goku fully understands the fusion dance. However I still feel as though it's more logistical for the fusion dance to produce a weaker warrior. Both participants have to align their power where as Potara does not have that downside. Granted I could maybe be over exaggerating the power difference since we never were able to see Gogeta in Z outside of the non cannon movie in which Goku himself was already leagues above himself in the actual timeline. Upon thinking about it maybe I would put Base Gogeta at ssj 1 Goku level and base Vegito at ssj3 level. Honestly running new calculations with that thought in mind I actually really do prefer Base Vegito>=SSJ3 Goku and Base Gogeta>=SSJ1 Goku. Definitely will fix my up coming Power levels, thanks for the help
I'll tell you how i think.
Metamor fusion result in base Is Always stronger than the fusees max Power.
In the manga, we see implications of base gotenks being>ssj goten by. Reasonable amount.
Going by that, and counting that metamor fusion considers only the weaker fusee, i usually go for this formula : weaker fusee at full Power X5
That means that base gotenks Is = 250x Goten, and base buu saga Gogeta should be 500x Vegeta (5x ssj2)

The point Is that base vegeth Is said to be stronger than buutenks in El manga legendario, that poses buuhan>=base vegeth>base gokhan>buutenks

So, even lowballing extremely :
Goten 1
Gotenks 250
Ssj gotenks 12'500
Ssj3 gotenks 100'000
Ssj2 Vegeta 18'000
Ssj2 Goku 20'000
Ssj3 Goku 80'000
Base Gogeta 90'000
Super buu 100'000
Buutenks 200'000
Mystic gohan 150'000
Buuhan 250'000
Base vegeth 247'000

And thats still wrong because i didnt calulate the difference between pre rosat and post rosat gotenks, but that was Just to give you a vague idea of that
That's fair i't might be weird having the fusion base be weaker than one of the sum of their parts. I will defiantly be putting a lot of thought into this thanks for the feedback. Only problem is when doing that my calculations produce some really large numbers that I don't know if I'd agree with. Still a reasonable thought and will definitely continue to ponder it

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by QuakingStar » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:59 am

SS4 is comparable to a SS Potara Fusion in power and thats not even including the users own potential added to it.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:56 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:04 am
p-hyvo wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:50 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:47 pm


Well that's fair they were discussing hypothetical Gokhan. And yes I know the base Vegito fight is filler I was more basing it off of his quick reaction in the manga but still I get what you mean. Yet that still is interesting to me because Goku thinking of a fusion with him and Gohan in the fusion dance would still make a stronger warrior then Gogeta and yet he still thought he'd need ssj. Who knows if Goku fully understands the fusion dance. However I still feel as though it's more logistical for the fusion dance to produce a weaker warrior. Both participants have to align their power where as Potara does not have that downside. Granted I could maybe be over exaggerating the power difference since we never were able to see Gogeta in Z outside of the non cannon movie in which Goku himself was already leagues above himself in the actual timeline. Upon thinking about it maybe I would put Base Gogeta at ssj 1 Goku level and base Vegito at ssj3 level. Honestly running new calculations with that thought in mind I actually really do prefer Base Vegito>=SSJ3 Goku and Base Gogeta>=SSJ1 Goku. Definitely will fix my up coming Power levels, thanks for the help
I'll tell you how i think.
Metamor fusion result in base Is Always stronger than the fusees max Power.
In the manga, we see implications of base gotenks being>ssj goten by. Reasonable amount.
Going by that, and counting that metamor fusion considers only the weaker fusee, i usually go for this formula : weaker fusee at full Power X5
That means that base gotenks Is = 250x Goten, and base buu saga Gogeta should be 500x Vegeta (5x ssj2)

The point Is that base vegeth Is said to be stronger than buutenks in El manga legendario, that poses buuhan>=base vegeth>base gokhan>buutenks

So, even lowballing extremely :
Goten 1
Gotenks 250
Ssj gotenks 12'500
Ssj3 gotenks 100'000
Ssj2 Vegeta 18'000
Ssj2 Goku 20'000
Ssj3 Goku 80'000
Base Gogeta 90'000
Super buu 100'000
Buutenks 200'000
Mystic gohan 150'000
Buuhan 250'000
Base vegeth 247'000

And thats still wrong because i didnt calulate the difference between pre rosat and post rosat gotenks, but that was Just to give you a vague idea of that
That's fair i't might be weird having the fusion base be weaker than one of the sum of their parts. I will defiantly be putting a lot of thought into this thanks for the feedback. Only problem is when doing that my calculations produce some really large numbers that I don't know if I'd agree with. Still a reasonable thought and will definitely continue to ponder it
Dont let an headcanon stop you. Ok, the results are High numbers, so? Who said that they should be low? Whats wrong with low numbers? Nothing really. Dont get influenced by anyone here, i've noticeced that 90% of people on this site are enormous lowballers.
Imo, large numbers are better. They give a Better idea of how powerful the characters had become (and i talk as someone that has base base buu saga Goku in the trillions, really) . So trust me, no set limit exists on how large tour result Will be, really. The only limit Is your imagination. No One could ever tell you that you are wrong Just because your results>their result
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Mad Swami » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:18 am

p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:56 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:04 am
p-hyvo wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:50 pm


I'll tell you how i think.
Metamor fusion result in base Is Always stronger than the fusees max Power.
In the manga, we see implications of base gotenks being>ssj goten by. Reasonable amount.
Going by that, and counting that metamor fusion considers only the weaker fusee, i usually go for this formula : weaker fusee at full Power X5
That means that base gotenks Is = 250x Goten, and base buu saga Gogeta should be 500x Vegeta (5x ssj2)

The point Is that base vegeth Is said to be stronger than buutenks in El manga legendario, that poses buuhan>=base vegeth>base gokhan>buutenks

So, even lowballing extremely :
Goten 1
Gotenks 250
Ssj gotenks 12'500
Ssj3 gotenks 100'000
Ssj2 Vegeta 18'000
Ssj2 Goku 20'000
Ssj3 Goku 80'000
Base Gogeta 90'000
Super buu 100'000
Buutenks 200'000
Mystic gohan 150'000
Buuhan 250'000
Base vegeth 247'000

And thats still wrong because i didnt calulate the difference between pre rosat and post rosat gotenks, but that was Just to give you a vague idea of that
That's fair i't might be weird having the fusion base be weaker than one of the sum of their parts. I will defiantly be putting a lot of thought into this thanks for the feedback. Only problem is when doing that my calculations produce some really large numbers that I don't know if I'd agree with. Still a reasonable thought and will definitely continue to ponder it
Dont let an headcanon stop you. Ok, the results are High numbers, so? Who said that they should be low? Whats wrong with low numbers? Nothing really. Dont get influenced by anyone here, i've noticeced that 90% of people on this site are enormous lowballers.
Imo, large numbers are better. They give a Better idea of how powerful the characters had become (and i talk as someone that has base base buu saga Goku in the trillions, really) . So trust me, no set limit exists on how large tour result Will be, really. The only limit Is your imagination. No One could ever tell you that you are wrong Just because your results>their result
It's not that I prefer lowballing them it's just more Judging from what a lot of characters show it's hard to picture these large differences in power. Like one character stalling another even though the other should be able to wipe them from the face of the Earth

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:41 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:18 am
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:56 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:04 am


That's fair i't might be weird having the fusion base be weaker than one of the sum of their parts. I will defiantly be putting a lot of thought into this thanks for the feedback. Only problem is when doing that my calculations produce some really large numbers that I don't know if I'd agree with. Still a reasonable thought and will definitely continue to ponder it
Dont let an headcanon stop you. Ok, the results are High numbers, so? Who said that they should be low? Whats wrong with low numbers? Nothing really. Dont get influenced by anyone here, i've noticeced that 90% of people on this site are enormous lowballers.
Imo, large numbers are better. They give a Better idea of how powerful the characters had become (and i talk as someone that has base base buu saga Goku in the trillions, really) . So trust me, no set limit exists on how large tour result Will be, really. The only limit Is your imagination. No One could ever tell you that you are wrong Just because your results>their result
It's not that I prefer lowballing them it's just more Judging from what a lot of characters show it's hard to picture these large differences in power. Like one character stalling another even though the other should be able to wipe them from the face of the Earth
Btw i have to Say that there really Is a big gap between Cell and buu saga, and a lot of people there Just ignores that, willingly or not.
Lets start from the point that Gohan Is exactly as strong as he was at the Cell games and Goten isnt weaker than him at all, following daizenshuu Who was written by toriyama himself.
Then, Vegeta says he would have won the tournament even without going ssj , even if 18 and piccolo were subscribed ti It too.
Last bit not least important, base Goten and trunks are shown ti sustain a brawl with 18, giving her a stroke by tuning ssj and shooting at her while suppressed.
Sincerely, if 18 = 50 i più base Goten and trunks at 36 and 38,5 respectively, with their fathers being 6'000 (Vegeta) and 8'000 (Goku), and piccolo = 560
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by ankokudaishogun » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:24 am

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:05 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:43 pm
Also, no official multipliers for fusion and potara.
Yes, there is. It's one fusee's power level times the other fusee's power level. And seeing how all transformations and techniques such as Kaio-ken also works with multiplication, it is safe to say that the Metamoru fusion also multiply both fusees' power level.
that's not exactly a precise multiplier(if it's a elevation to power, who is the base and who is the power?) and, most important, you are quite reaching in stating Fusion Dance uses a completely different system, especially given the power shown by Gotenks compared to Goten and Trunks.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:35 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:24 am
Grimlock wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:05 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:43 pm
Also, no official multipliers for fusion and potara.
Yes, there is. It's one fusee's power level times the other fusee's power level. And seeing how all transformations and techniques such as Kaio-ken also works with multiplication, it is safe to say that the Metamoru fusion also multiply both fusees' power level.
that's not exactly a precise multiplier(if it's a elevation to power, who is the base and who is the power?) and, most important, you are quite reaching in stating Fusion Dance uses a completely different system, especially given the power shown by Gotenks compared to Goten and Trunks.
I would obviously say that a formula Luka that isnt ti take literally at all. In a Power level making process, It Just doesnt work
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:52 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:41 am
Btw i have to Say that there really Is a big gap between Cell and buu saga, and a lot of people there Just ignores that, willingly or not.
Lets start from the point that Gohan Is exactly as strong as he was at the Cell games and Goten isnt weaker than him at all, following daizenshuu Who was written by toriyama himself.
Vegeta stated otherwise. Gohan wasn't as strong as he was in the Cell Games, actually that is one of the factors that makes Vegeta lose it when seeing him fight like a princess vs Dabura. Gohan's slacking off during the 7 year hiatus is one of the most famous things about Gohan in the buu arc.

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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:51 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:52 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:41 am
Btw i have to Say that there really Is a big gap between Cell and buu saga, and a lot of people there Just ignores that, willingly or not.
Lets start from the point that Gohan Is exactly as strong as he was at the Cell games and Goten isnt weaker than him at all, following daizenshuu Who was written by toriyama himself.
Vegeta stated otherwise. Gohan wasn't as strong as he was in the Cell Games, actually that is one of the factors that makes Vegeta lose it when seeing him fight like a princess vs Dabura. Gohan's slacking off during the 7 year hiatus is one of the most famous things about Gohan in the buu arc.
That gests contestualized with Gohan not being able to access both ssj2 and his rage Power in the daizenshuu.
Nothing contraddicts Gohan being exactly as strong as he was in base, he's Just not that strong overall due to a series of factors
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

Mad Swami
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Mad Swami » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:06 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:41 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:18 am
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:56 am


Dont let an headcanon stop you. Ok, the results are High numbers, so? Who said that they should be low? Whats wrong with low numbers? Nothing really. Dont get influenced by anyone here, i've noticeced that 90% of people on this site are enormous lowballers.
Imo, large numbers are better. They give a Better idea of how powerful the characters had become (and i talk as someone that has base base buu saga Goku in the trillions, really) . So trust me, no set limit exists on how large tour result Will be, really. The only limit Is your imagination. No One could ever tell you that you are wrong Just because your results>their result
It's not that I prefer lowballing them it's just more Judging from what a lot of characters show it's hard to picture these large differences in power. Like one character stalling another even though the other should be able to wipe them from the face of the Earth
Btw i have to Say that there really Is a big gap between Cell and buu saga, and a lot of people there Just ignores that, willingly or not.
Lets start from the point that Gohan Is exactly as strong as he was at the Cell games and Goten isnt weaker than him at all, following daizenshuu Who was written by toriyama himself.
Then, Vegeta says he would have won the tournament even without going ssj , even if 18 and piccolo were subscribed ti It too.
Last bit not least important, base Goten and trunks are shown ti sustain a brawl with 18, giving her a stroke by tuning ssj and shooting at her while suppressed.
Sincerely, if 18 = 50 i più base Goten and trunks at 36 and 38,5 respectively, with their fathers being 6'000 (Vegeta) and 8'000 (Goku), and piccolo = 560
I think Vegeta might have been exaggerating a bit. I don't really believe there is that big of a gap because they still treat what happened in the Cell arc as a big deal as Majin Vegeta says to Goku when he goes ssj2 "Oh wow, even stronger than Gohan was" that to me implies Gohan SSj2 can't be that far behind

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Koitsukai
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:37 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:51 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:52 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:41 am
Btw i have to Say that there really Is a big gap between Cell and buu saga, and a lot of people there Just ignores that, willingly or not.
Lets start from the point that Gohan Is exactly as strong as he was at the Cell games and Goten isnt weaker than him at all, following daizenshuu Who was written by toriyama himself.
Vegeta stated otherwise. Gohan wasn't as strong as he was in the Cell Games, actually that is one of the factors that makes Vegeta lose it when seeing him fight like a princess vs Dabura. Gohan's slacking off during the 7 year hiatus is one of the most famous things about Gohan in the buu arc.
That gests contestualized with Gohan not being able to access both ssj2 and his rage Power in the daizenshuu.
Nothing contraddicts Gohan being exactly as strong as he was in base, he's Just not that strong overall due to a series of factors
He went SS2 vs Kibito, though. While it is true that he didn't access it vs Dabura, Vegeta is clear, Gohan is no longer stronger than them because he has been missing a lot of training sessions. That alone shows he can't have the same strenght as before after years of skipping training. Later vs Dabura, Vegeta says he is weaker than he was as a kid, Goku agrees much to his sorrow. Vegeta knows better than to compare SS to SS2.

Also, Vegeta considers Gohan to be weaker after having witnessed his SS2 vs Kibito and before Babidi majined him, this implies his SS2 isn't as great as it used to be.

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p-hyvo
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:57 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:37 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:51 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:52 pm


Vegeta stated otherwise. Gohan wasn't as strong as he was in the Cell Games, actually that is one of the factors that makes Vegeta lose it when seeing him fight like a princess vs Dabura. Gohan's slacking off during the 7 year hiatus is one of the most famous things about Gohan in the buu arc.
That gests contestualized with Gohan not being able to access both ssj2 and his rage Power in the daizenshuu.
Nothing contraddicts Gohan being exactly as strong as he was in base, he's Just not that strong overall due to a series of factors
He went SS2 vs Kibito, though. While it is true that he didn't access it vs Dabura, Vegeta is clear, Gohan is no longer stronger than them because he has been missing a lot of training sessions. That alone shows he can't have the same strenght as before after years of skipping training. Later vs Dabura, Vegeta says he is weaker than he was as a kid, Goku agrees much to his sorrow. Vegeta knows better than to compare SS to SS2.

Also, Vegeta considers Gohan to be weaker after having witnessed his SS2 vs Kibito and before Babidi majined him, this implies his SS2 isn't as great as it used to be.
Yes , Gohan against darbula was weaker that vs Cell, but again, we return to the "he cant tap into rage Power anymore" thing. And that Is valid even for the Gohan vs kibito thing. Ssj2 with no rage<<<<ssj2 with rage, obviously.

And vegeta saying that Gohan Is no more stronger than he Is does'nt made the Gohan being exactly as strong as durring the cell games thing invalid. Simply, buu saga vegeta>Cell games Gohan now, but this does'nt mean that buu saga Gohan<Cell games Gohan , not at all. I After obviously that Gohan Is weaker overall, but that does'nt mean that he has ti be weaker in base too. Again, the rage Power thing
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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p-hyvo
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Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by p-hyvo » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:03 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:06 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:41 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:18 am


It's not that I prefer lowballing them it's just more Judging from what a lot of characters show it's hard to picture these large differences in power. Like one character stalling another even though the other should be able to wipe them from the face of the Earth
Btw i have to Say that there really Is a big gap between Cell and buu saga, and a lot of people there Just ignores that, willingly or not.
Lets start from the point that Gohan Is exactly as strong as he was at the Cell games and Goten isnt weaker than him at all, following daizenshuu Who was written by toriyama himself.
Then, Vegeta says he would have won the tournament even without going ssj , even if 18 and piccolo were subscribed ti It too.
Last bit not least important, base Goten and trunks are shown ti sustain a brawl with 18, giving her a stroke by tuning ssj and shooting at her while suppressed.
Sincerely, if 18 = 50 i più base Goten and trunks at 36 and 38,5 respectively, with their fathers being 6'000 (Vegeta) and 8'000 (Goku), and piccolo = 560
I think Vegeta might have been exaggerating a bit. I don't really believe there is that big of a gap because they still treat what happened in the Cell arc as a big deal as Majin Vegeta says to Goku when he goes ssj2 "Oh wow, even stronger than Gohan was" that to me implies Gohan SSj2 can't be that far behind
The thing that a lot of people undersimate Is how big was the rageboost that Gohan took by Turing ssj2 against Cell. It was sometning really enormous, dall'ing under the "Gohan shows his powerful rage" thing. We saw Gohan go from a Power level of literally 1 to One of 1307 against radish Just because of rage, so why a Power that triggered a transormation should be a lot less than that? I'm not saying that Gohan took a x2000 rageboost or something like this, but i can see at least a x100 boost on top of his ssj there, to make all the buu saga scaling fit into it. Honestly, in my last Power levels i give Gohan a x800 rageboost in that fragment. That the kind of enormous Power that Gohan draws from rage, It Is completely in character
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

Mad Swami
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 379
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:01 am

Re: Information on Super Saiyan 4's power

Post by Mad Swami » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:31 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:03 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:06 pm
p-hyvo wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:41 am

Btw i have to Say that there really Is a big gap between Cell and buu saga, and a lot of people there Just ignores that, willingly or not.
Lets start from the point that Gohan Is exactly as strong as he was at the Cell games and Goten isnt weaker than him at all, following daizenshuu Who was written by toriyama himself.
Then, Vegeta says he would have won the tournament even without going ssj , even if 18 and piccolo were subscribed ti It too.
Last bit not least important, base Goten and trunks are shown ti sustain a brawl with 18, giving her a stroke by tuning ssj and shooting at her while suppressed.
Sincerely, if 18 = 50 i più base Goten and trunks at 36 and 38,5 respectively, with their fathers being 6'000 (Vegeta) and 8'000 (Goku), and piccolo = 560
I think Vegeta might have been exaggerating a bit. I don't really believe there is that big of a gap because they still treat what happened in the Cell arc as a big deal as Majin Vegeta says to Goku when he goes ssj2 "Oh wow, even stronger than Gohan was" that to me implies Gohan SSj2 can't be that far behind
The thing that a lot of people undersimate Is how big was the rageboost that Gohan took by Turing ssj2 against Cell. It was sometning really enormous, dall'ing under the "Gohan shows his powerful rage" thing. We saw Gohan go from a Power level of literally 1 to One of 1307 against radish Just because of rage, so why a Power that triggered a transormation should be a lot less than that? I'm not saying that Gohan took a x2000 rageboost or something like this, but i can see at least a x100 boost on top of his ssj there, to make all the buu saga scaling fit into it. Honestly, in my last Power levels i give Gohan a x800 rageboost in that fragment. That the kind of enormous Power that Gohan draws from rage, It Is completely in character
No way an 100x boost. That is far too much. An 100x rage boost is preposterous

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