How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

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How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by Akeem » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:58 am

How strong do you think he was compared to pre-zsword training gohan? And how strong do you think he made kid buu before the Dia Kaioshin weakened him?

Rememeber its stated none of the kaioshins were able to pull out the z sword. So what level you put him depends mostly on what level you think gohan was when he pulled the Zsword out and whether you think kaioshin was referring to first form frieza or 100%final form when he said all 5 Kaioshin could one-shot frieza. Also consider Kaioshins reaction to vegeta destroying Pui Pui and what he says to himself right after Goku destroys Yakon which seem to not only indicate he didnt know ''beings from the lower world''could hide their ki(which means he could have mistaken first form frieza as being Freeza's max)But also implys that he's much weaker than base vegeta. And with how impressed he was with vegetas display of power at base, it could also imply base vegeta> South kaioshin, which would mean ssj gohan> S.Kiaoshin

so kid buus increase after absorbing him would be negligible.

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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:45 am

I think the Kaioshins in general are around the level of SS and all of them are below SS2.

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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:12 am

IIRC, Kibitoshin said that "Majin Boo somehow managed to absorb the South Kaioshin" or something to that effect. The implication being that the South Kaioshin was powerful enough to keep Pure Boo at bay and that absorbing him would have taken some cunning on Boo's part and/or the South Kaioshin happening to drop his guard. However, it should be noted that Pure Boo possessed Dai Kaioshin's divine power when he faced off against Goku so the Pure Boo from 5 million years prior was likely weaker than how we saw him in the present day.
Given that Buff Boo's strength was mostly from the absorbed South Kaioshin and that Pure Boo(with Dai Kaioshin's divinity) reappeared not long after reverting to that form with no statement confirming which is actually stronger, I'd say that the South Kaioshin was somewhere just over the SSJ2 tier but below SSJ3.
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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:32 pm

I think the “somehow” is more related to the absorption ability than to South Kaioshin’s strength, since that was the first time they realized Boo can absorb another beings.

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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:56 pm

I have Shin around or maybe higher than Cell Games SS Goku level. Enough to one-shot Freeza in any form but not enough to deal with Dabura. The girl and the old fat kaioshin I guess they are somewhat relative to Shin.

South Kaioshin is the only one that stood up to Kid Buu although he took some damage in the process. He perfomed not as great as SS3 Goku but far better than SS Vegeta(I don't remember lightnings or anything like that). So like someone else already said, to me he is around SS2 or higher.
If we take into account the new relevations about Kid Buu having god ki after absorbing the Dai Kaioshin and pretend he is actually stronger than he was before absorptions due to it, then South kaioshin might be weaker than SS2. But this last part is just headcanon.

Buff Buu I think is above SS3 Gotenks but below Ultimate Gohan.

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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:18 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:32 pm
I think the “somehow” is more related to the absorption ability than to South Kaioshin’s strength, since that was the first time they realized Boo can absorb another beings.
Kibitoshin was talking in hindsight, knowing full well in present tense that Boo could absorb opponents and that the exact circumstance of how South Kaioshin got absorbed is unknown to him.
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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by Lionel » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:36 pm

South Kaioshin's power position is odd to figure out since you have an implication that he was powerful enough to warrant absorption yet on the other hand we clearly learn that no Kaioshin was able to remove the Z-Sword from its resting place. Gohan, as a Super Saiyan, accomplished it, though. Ordinarily I might have just written this off as being a case of South Kaioshin's magical abilities being impressive enough to threaten Buu while still being physically weaker than SSJ Gohan, but then there's the reality of Buu's general power having increased, not just his magical energies.

It's really confusing trying to reconcile these two points. South Kaioshin was clearly more of a physically inclined character unlike Shin. I mean unless you want to take a more fan inspired mythologised concept like the Z-Sword somehow rejecting any Kaioshins from removing it, despite its own imprisoned Kaioshin's expectational will being that it would be a Kaioshin who releases him and not a mortal, you might have a hard time trying to piece together an explanation.

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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:20 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:18 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:32 pm
I think the “somehow” is more related to the absorption ability than to South Kaioshin’s strength, since that was the first time they realized Boo can absorb another beings.
Kibitoshin was talking in hindsight, knowing full well in present tense that Boo could absorb opponents and that the exact circumstance of how South Kaioshin got absorbed is unknown to him.
That doesn’t make sense, because he never saw Boo absorbing anyone before South Kaioshin.

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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by Berserker1921 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:10 am

I’d say he is super saiyan 2.5-2.8. Maybe, lost some power against Moro. Moro is at most SsjB+ level. So maybe south was god level 10 million years ago. But now is or was ssj2.5.

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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by TobyS » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:18 pm

Lionel wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:36 pm
South Kaioshin's power position is odd to figure out since you have an implication that he was powerful enough to warrant absorption yet on the other hand we clearly learn that no Kaioshin was able to remove the Z-Sword from its resting place. Gohan, as a Super Saiyan, accomplished it, though. Ordinarily I might have just written this off as being a case of South Kaioshin's magical abilities being impressive enough to threaten Buu while still being physically weaker than SSJ Gohan, but then there's the reality of Buu's general power having increased, not just his magical energies.

It's really confusing trying to reconcile these two points. South Kaioshin was clearly more of a physically inclined character unlike Shin. I mean unless you want to take a more fan inspired mythologised concept like the Z-Sword somehow rejecting any Kaioshins from removing it, despite its own imprisoned Kaioshin's expectational will being that it would be a Kaioshin who releases him and not a mortal, you might have a hard time trying to piece together an explanation.
It'd make sense for Beerus to not want the guys coworkers to just immediately release him.
Beerus wouldn't need to make it ningen proof because they should be too weak and not allowed up their anyway. Old Kaioshin might not know the exact rules on his prison but either way Kaioshins being the only ones allowed there would still make them the most likely candidates to open it.
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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by Lionel » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:07 am

TobyS wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:18 pm
Lionel wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:36 pm
South Kaioshin's power position is odd to figure out since you have an implication that he was powerful enough to warrant absorption yet on the other hand we clearly learn that no Kaioshin was able to remove the Z-Sword from its resting place. Gohan, as a Super Saiyan, accomplished it, though. Ordinarily I might have just written this off as being a case of South Kaioshin's magical abilities being impressive enough to threaten Buu while still being physically weaker than SSJ Gohan, but then there's the reality of Buu's general power having increased, not just his magical energies.

It's really confusing trying to reconcile these two points. South Kaioshin was clearly more of a physically inclined character unlike Shin. I mean unless you want to take a more fan inspired mythologised concept like the Z-Sword somehow rejecting any Kaioshins from removing it, despite its own imprisoned Kaioshin's expectational will being that it would be a Kaioshin who releases him and not a mortal, you might have a hard time trying to piece together an explanation.
It'd make sense for Beerus to not want the guys coworkers to just immediately release him.
Beerus wouldn't need to make it ningen proof because they should be too weak and not allowed up their anyway. Old Kaioshin might not know the exact rules on his prison but either way Kaioshins being the only ones allowed there would still make them the most likely candidates to open it.
Interesting theory. I do agree that Beerus probably wouldn't be inclined to make the seal ningen-proof because of his lack of anticipating anyone to be able to unseal it from the lower realm. Dabura is one possibility but I'm not sure if Beerus was aware of him or how strong the demon king may have been prior to being brought under the control of Babidi (which would have occurred after Elder Kaioshin was already sealed I'm guessing).

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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by ahill1 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:53 am

It was stated that "many Kaioshins have tried and failed", regardless, not "all of them", so we aren't required to have South Kaioshin as below the level Gohan was at when pulling out the Z sword.

The fact that Kid Boo resorted to absorption when dealing with him, unlike the others he just killed, might be very telling in regards to his strength. He didn't even try this out with Goku SSJ3, only resorting to a candy beam, so one could make a case that South Kaioshin was even more impressive than SSJ3 Goku to warrant the absorption. The "somehow" in "SK was somehow absorbed" might be somewhat telling as well. Kibitoshin was already aware of how Boo absorbed people, so the somehow might refer to how he could have pulled that off when the odds were against him.

So all in all, I'd have South slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku and Kid Boo. Might be even more considering the huge boost Boo got by such absorption, which most people take to work as additional increases. But for now, at the Goku SSJ3+ end works for me.

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Re: How strong do you think South kaioshin was?

Post by Ripper 30 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:07 am

ahill1 wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:53 am
It was stated that "many Kaioshins have tried and failed", regardless, not "all of them", so we aren't required to have South Kaioshin as below the level Gohan was at when pulling out the Z sword.

The fact that Kid Boo resorted to absorption when dealing with him, unlike the others he just killed, might be very telling in regards to his strength. He didn't even try this out with Goku SSJ3, only resorting to a candy beam, so one could make a case that South Kaioshin was even more impressive than SSJ3 Goku to warrant the absorption. The "somehow" in "SK was somehow absorbed" might be somewhat telling as well. Kibitoshin was already aware of how Boo absorbed people, so the somehow might refer to how he could have pulled that off when the odds were against him.

So all in all, I'd have South slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku and Kid Boo. Might be even more considering the huge boost Boo got by such absorption, which most people take to work as additional increases. But for now, at the Goku SSJ3+ end works for me.
Which obviously includes South Kaioshin too. You think the best contender, the most strongest of Kaioshin won't try but others will? What kind of logic is that? When Gohan pulled it, it was supposed to show that Gohan surpassed all Kaioshins and did something no Kaioshin was able to do.


It wasn't even written that way, he said "South Kaioshin somehow got absorbed", Pure Boo has no brain. The fact that after absorbing South Kaioshin he went for Dai Kaioshin too proves it wasn't because of power but just chaotic nature. Fat Boo used Candy Beam on Dabra too, does that mean he was afraid of him? You are just adding your own theories here, it makes no sense for South Kaioshin to never try to pull the Z sword despite being the only contender who can pull it. Making him ssj3 level is just wrong, East Kaioshin was shocked when he saw mortals with higher power levels, there's no way he powered up Boo.

So here's the funny thing, when Vegeta tears out Good Boo from Inside of Super Boo, his Ki Rose. Mind you, Good Boo represents both Kaioshin's influence not just one. So if South Kaioshin made him powerful, why would he get more stronger after the power source is taken out than what he was when power source was in him. That makes no sense, if something power ups other thing, it doesn't get more stronger after its removal. This headcanon makes the least sense. When Vegeta pulled out Good Boo, he took out all of Kaioshin influence out not just Dai Kaioshin so its not like he was responding to only only Kaioshin, no, he was responding to both Kaioshin influence together. That's why Boo never stopped at "Buff Boo" part and kept on going until he reached Pure Boo form. Not a single person even talked about his power going down, the only comment made was regarding his size since Pure Boo was kid version of Super Boo so it's obvious they are gonna laugh seeing their last opponent turn into a little kid after going through a large bulky form. This happened with every Villain after Saiyan arc, Kuririn talked about Final form Freeza's height only to be corrected by Piccolo, Vegeta talked about Perfect Cell's size shrinking like Pure Boo only for Kuririn to inform Trunks about Perfect Cell, Vegeta mocking his height only for East Kaioshin to tell the True story of him gaining the power he lost through absorption.
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