Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

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Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:34 am

Despite what people think Gohan was written to be weaker than Pure Boo. There are clear narrative evidence pointing to that :
First is how Goku thought both Gohan and Gotenks were required
Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P7.4
Context: after Vegeta has the Earth brought back with the dragonballs
Goku: “Oh, I know! You’ll bring Gohan and Gotenks back to life so they can fight.”
Vegeta: “No.”


Why would they want both of them on Kaioshin realm if one was enough? That makes no sense, the verb they used wasn't BEAT but Fight, which means both were needed to stand a chance near Pure Boo. Goku was all about Next generation and One-on-One in this arc, so it would not make sense with him to not let Gohan kill Boo if possible. If he's enough then he wouldn't want both of them on Kaioshin realm, considering how Gotenks can only maintain SSJ3 for 5 Minutes so that clearly shows Gohan wasn't enough.

First Goku called him out on how Genki Dama was not gonna work due to them taking little bits of Ki from everyone on Earth. But Vegeta asked him to take as much energy as possible, then Goku agreed with his plan :
Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P8.3-4
Context: after Vegeta tells Goku to make a Genki-Dama
Goku: “Hey! So it was the Genki-Dama you were thinking of!? It-it’s no use! Against Boo, no matter how much we gathered little bits of genki from all the Earthlings…”
Vegeta: “I told you, right? That those guys on Earth should take responsibility every now and then…! It won’t be just little bit. We’ll gather ki from them right up to their limits!


Then they both agree to do it.

Vegeta told him to gather Ki right upto limit and Gohan gives his Ki, put 2 and 2 together and we get Gohan giving all of his power in Genki Dama. Gohan isn't evil to hold back in giving his power for the sake of Universe.
Goku asks to give all power :

Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P12.3
Goku: “Everyone! Give me as much genki as you possibly can!
Please!”

After receiving his friends' Power Goku remarked on how huge it was and recognized Gohan's ki too :
Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P13.3-4
Context: after Gohan and co. contribute their genki to the Genki-Dama
Goku: “Oh! It’s here, it’s here! It’s already huge! This is Gohan and the others’ ki!”
Vegeta: “…Bu-but it’s not complete yet…Wh-why…?!”

Right after receiving his power Goku said it wasn't enough to wipe out Boo, despite it having Gohan's power :
Chapter: 515 (DBZ 321), P1.1
Context: after Gohan and co. contribute their genki to the Genki-Dama
Goku: Hey, even this probably isn’t enough to wipe out Boo! What are they doing?! Hardly anyone but our friends is sending us ki!”


Goku calls them out and warned them about doom of entire universe if they refused to contribute to Genki Dama. But why will universe be in danger if Gohan is strong enough to kill Boo?
Chapter: 515 (DBZ 321)
Context : No one listening to Vegeta's and Goku's request
Goku : Hey! Everyone! Hurry up and help us! Don't you care what happens to earth and the rest of the Universe? Stupid Bastards!


I mean Gohan can kill Pure Boo even if Genki Dama fails, so why its something which can doom the Universe? Because Gohan wasn't strong enough to stop Boo that's why failing Genki Dama meant end for everyone.

After Goku releases Genki Dama, Pure Boo tries to Stop it with Kamehameha but it doesn't work despite the pushing characteristics of the wave. But after grunting, he was able to Stop the ball rushing at him with bare hands. So he definitely powered up in between that's why he was able to stop a Super Genki Dama with hands and started to push it back.

Even Elder Kaioshin said that the Genki Dama lacked enough power :
Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P8.5-6
Context: people on Namek and in the afterlife watch Boo stall the Genki-Dama
Elder Kaioshin: “Th-this is bad. Ma-maybe that ‘Genki-Dama’ thing st-still doesn’t have enough power…
Dende: “Th-that can’t be…! We-we already used our ki…”
Enma Daio: “Ha-hang in there, Son Goku…! Th-that Genki-Dama has power from us here in the afterlife in it too…!”


That Genki Dama had everyone's Ki in it including Gohan's. If Gohan was strong enough they would have instantly called him to one shot him but they didn't. They all were banking on Genki Dama otherwise it was doom for everyone. If Pure Boo was weaker than Gohan then he would have been killed by Genki Dama instantly since it had Gohan's power in it.

Vegeta outright stated that next Time Pure Boo comes back it will be End of the World :

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P4.6
Context: as Satan wants them to spare good Boo
Vegeta: “…Don’t you get it!? What do you intend to do if he gives birth to that terrible Boo again!? This time for sure it might really mean the end of the world! It’s best to kill him now. Got that, you idiot?!”


Why would he be willing to kill Good Boo so much? And why would it be end of the World if next time Pure Boo comes? If Gohan can take him on then he should not be scared but he was because no one was there.

Goku calms him by telling him that if Good Boo and Satan never helped them, they and everyone else would have been killed. They means Goku and Vegeta and everyone else means his family, friends and entire universe.
Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one
.”

Vegeta asked Goku for solutions, Goku simply told him that they will train to be prepared for Pure Boo's potential return next time. Why would Goku's solution be training and not calling Gohan to one shot boo? Because Gohan isn't enough and they required training to be able to face him alone.

Even after 10 years he trained for him and considered him a challenge :
Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P10.2
Context: Goku asks Boo to rig the match-ups so he can fight Oob
Goku: “…Sorry, but I wanna fight with him no matter what, in the 1st round when both of us still have 100% of our stamina…


Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P13.6
Goku: “Hey, Oob. Once your training is complete, we’ll have a match again, properly this time! [ ] To tell the truth, this is my number one objective!”
Last edited by Ripper 30 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:02 am

All these different colored text made this borderline unreadable.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:56 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:02 am
All these different colored text made this borderline unreadable.
Now fine?
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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:10 pm

I think people have fine reasons to disagree with this idea, but there is definitely the intent of selling this Boo to be stronger than everyone else, even if sometimes it doesn’t seem like it.. Anyway, that’s kinda how Boo Arc was written. No need to be super pedantic about lines.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:29 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:10 pm
I think people have fine reasons to disagree with this idea, but there is definitely the intent of selling this Boo to be stronger than everyone else, even if sometimes it doesn’t seem like it.. Anyway, that’s kinda how Boo Arc was written. No need to be super pedantic about lines.
Goku literally said that If Satan and Boo hadn't been there then they and everyone else would have been done in. That's all we needed to hear, which means Gohan was obviously not stronger. Also the fact that Goku wanted both Gohan and Gotenks to help them which seems contradictory if Gohan can alone take care of Boo.
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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:27 am

For those who think Super Boo is stronger than Kid Boo, it makes sense that Goku would want Gohan and Gotenks to fight Kid Boo. It’s not like he is saying both are required to fight him. More like to play safe. In the same reasoning, by “everyone else”, he could mean Earth and the rest of the universe, since Boo doesn’t have qualms on destroying the planet as soon as he lands on it, not giving opportunity to potentially stronger fighters to face him beforehand.

Anyway, I don’t subscribe to this reasoning, just presenting how usually people reply to it.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Ripper 30 » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:44 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:27 am
For those who think Super Boo is stronger than Kid Boo, it makes sense that Goku would want Gohan and Gotenks to fight Kid Boo. It’s not like he is saying both are required to fight him. More like to play safe. In the same reasoning, by “everyone else”, he could mean Earth and the rest of the universe, since Boo doesn’t have qualms on destroying the planet as soon as he lands on it, not giving opportunity to potentially stronger fighters to face him beforehand.

Anyway, I don’t subscribe to this reasoning, just presenting how usually people reply to it.
Then when he said he and Vegeta need Fusion to face Super Boo, he is also playing safe by going Gogeta from start. If Gohan can kill Boo yet Goku wanted a guy who can't even maintain ssj3 for more than 5 minutes then it means Gohan can't handle him. As for that point about Boo destroying planets incase Genki Dama failed, they think Boo would just go on rampage yet he's never destroyed the very same Kaioshin realm he was fighting on despite having time to jiggle, sleep and fuck around with everyone. Destroying the planet wasn't even Concern of Goku, he believed next time too they will fight too and need training. When no one was listening to Goku, he said "Hey! Everyone! Don't you care about what happens to earth and the rest of the universe? Stupid Bastards?" , Why would the whole universe be in danger if the Genki Dama failed if Gohan was strong enough to beat Boo on his own?

The Genki Dama plan failing after Gohan's Donation of all the Ki he had is good indicator of intended Narrative. After getting his Ki, he said he needs more Power which means Gohan couldn't have killed Boo. Also Boo stopped the Genki Dama with Gohan's Ki in it, he should have been wiped out instantly if he was weaker than Gohan.
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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:43 pm

I think you are overanalyzing conversations, words, expressions and reaching while ignoring combat feats such as SS3 Goku being in the same realm of Pure Boo and Gotenks and Gohan being definitely above him, and of course Boo as well. SS3 Goku wouldn't have lasted as long if Boo was DEFINITELY STRONGER than Gohan.

Why didn't they let their kids fight?
Because they had their chance and blew it and actually made things worse, both got absorbed, Gohan let Boo absorb everyone, and Gotenks played around the entire fight wasting time and opportunity. They are kids, Gohan is not even 18, power aside, they proved to be way out of their league by getting fooled easily, and probably Boo could absorb them and start everything all over again.

Why worry about the universe even though Gohan and Gotenks are still there? they are gullible kids that got duped by Buu more than once. Them as the last stance isn't a warranty at all. Again, Boo needs just a second to destroy a planet.

Why mention both? because they are their kids, there is nothing there implying that both wouldn't be enough. Again, your interpretation.

Why did the Genki Dama wasn't enough even with Earth's power? why wasn't saiyan arc Genki Dama (even though not at full power) not enough to kill a depleted Vegeta? how could Freeza and Boo hold it when they were pure evil and shouldn't be able to do so? why not have the kids fuse into Gotenks and then lend even more energy?
DB has many, many, many plotholes, interpreting some of them as X is stronger than Y is your headcanon.

Why was Vegeta so afraid of Pure Boo's revival? because Boo needs a second to destroy the Earth, even less maybe, he won't wait for his enemies to gather around and fight him, if Mr. Boo gives birth to Boo in Satan's billiard room, then from there he will destroy Earth, and Gohan and the rest would never know. Even if Kid Boo were to want a good fight, he might even absorb Gohan like he already did and the threat would become much bigger.


Goku stated his SS3 form at full power would end Boo but he failed to do so due to not knowing that being alive was such a drag for the form. SS3 Goku was not stronger than Ultimate Gohan, stated many times and with feats to prove so.

Even clearer is the fact that Kid Buu was stopped by a team effort from the kaioshin, while Gohan was already proved to be stronger than any other kaioshin when getting the Z sword... then he gets his ultimate form. So, he left the Pure Boo tier in the dust a while ago.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Desassina » Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:31 pm

Gohan and Evil Boo (Super) being stronger than Goku and Pure Boo (Kid) is something that came from bad translations and scans during the early days of the internet. Herms had then conformed to the idea even when he translated the manga more accurately and decided to add a few notes for context. You would think that people knew how to read for themselves without the translator telling them what the lines meant but no. Here's an example:

"I told Boo that someone stronger than me would fight him". Herms added a note that failed to support the fact that Goku lied to Piccolo. Treating it as an inconsistency helps the case of Gotenks being stronger, but both of them overestimated fusion since Goku hadn't seen the boys fuse, and Piccolo took his word for granted due to his hope. It's one case where people will follow the notes over the lines in their context.

In other words, judge the work as is, not the author's intentions, and take lines not just for what they are, but their nuanced meaning as well.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Ripper 30 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:17 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:43 pm
I think you are overanalyzing conversations, words, expressions and reaching while ignoring combat feats such as SS3 Goku being in the same realm of Pure Boo and Gotenks and Gohan being definitely above him, and of course Boo as well. SS3 Goku wouldn't have lasted as long if Boo was DEFINITELY STRONGER than Gohan.

Why didn't they let their kids fight?
Because they had their chance and blew it and actually made things worse, both got absorbed, Gohan let Boo absorb everyone, and Gotenks played around the entire fight wasting time and opportunity. They are kids, Gohan is not even 18, power aside, they proved to be way out of their league by getting fooled easily, and probably Boo could absorb them and start everything all over again.

Why worry about the universe even though Gohan and Gotenks are still there? they are gullible kids that got duped by Buu more than once. Them as the last stance isn't a warranty at all. Again, Boo needs just a second to destroy a planet.

Why mention both? because they are their kids, there is nothing there implying that both wouldn't be enough. Again, your interpretation.

Why did the Genki Dama wasn't enough even with Earth's power? why wasn't saiyan arc Genki Dama (even though not at full power) not enough to kill a depleted Vegeta? how could Freeza and Boo hold it when they were pure evil and shouldn't be able to do so? why not have the kids fuse into Gotenks and then lend even more energy?
DB has many, many, many plotholes, interpreting some of them as X is stronger than Y is your headcanon.

Why was Vegeta so afraid of Pure Boo's revival? because Boo needs a second to destroy the Earth, even less maybe, he won't wait for his enemies to gather around and fight him, if Mr. Boo gives birth to Boo in Satan's billiard room, then from there he will destroy Earth, and Gohan and the rest would never know. Even if Kid Boo were to want a good fight, he might even absorb Gohan like he already did and the threat would become much bigger.


Goku stated his SS3 form at full power would end Boo but he failed to do so due to not knowing that being alive was such a drag for the form. SS3 Goku was not stronger than Ultimate Gohan, stated many times and with feats to prove so.

Even clearer is the fact that Kid Buu was stopped by a team effort from the kaioshin, while Gohan was already proved to be stronger than any other kaioshin when getting the Z sword... then he gets his ultimate form. So, he left the Pure Boo tier in the dust a while ago.
Dude Goku outright stated that None of his Attacks were working :
Chapter: 509 (DBZ 315), P11.4-6
Context: as Goku prepares to fight Boo
Goku: “Alrii~~iight. I’d better go all out right from the start…! If we get done in, then the entire universe will go ‘poof’…”
Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P12.1
Context: after Goku fights pure Boo for awhile
Goku: “…Dammit…! Like I thought, even if I keep doing the same thing, that bastard’s stamina doesn’t fall…! He just returns to being good as new right away…
Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.6-7
Context: after one of Goku’s attacks damages Boo
Goku: “That bastard…Even though he can quickly return to normal, he’s playing around by purposefully drawing it out…”
*Boo is clearly lollygagging*
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Goku went all out from the very beginning by his own admission and couldn't do shit and had zero effect on Kid Boo and regrets destroying the potara and mentions Kid Boo is playing around evident by him slowly dragging out his regeneration as he doesn't consider Goku a threat which is interesting since when Super Boo fought his equal SSJ3 Gotenks he was shown taking significant damage he couldn't laugh off and getting mentally frustrated something that's completely absent with Kid Boo vs Goku though. Goku's first attack on Kid Boo is a Kamehameha, Goku never solely fought physical attacks only as he uses several ki blast at different points, all equally ineffective.Very doubtful Goku could kill anything if giving the chance since not even Kid Boo's blast that could easily oneshot Goku on Earth did shit to himself and he was holding back on Earth no less. More than likely Goku was fucked against Kid Buu no matter what he did and simply out his league. Again, if Goku was anywhere near Kid Buu's level he would be frustrating him like Gotenks did Super Boo, but he wasn't which is why that never took place, the only thing that did frustrate Kid Boo like Super Boo was the Genki Dama, but that isn't representative of Goku's own battle power though.

Did you read the manga? Goku said that Kid Boo was prolonging his regeneration and the fight for fun of it to mock Goku. If he wanted he could've One shotted each one of them, including Satan, Vegeta and Good Boo. If he wanted he could've blown the Kaioshin realm but he didn't, he was toying with everyone. Even Satan survived a punch from him, are we supposed to believe Kid Boo who has no qualms over killing others would hold back for Satan? He was toying with everyone.

Funny how you are the one over-analyzing it more than you claim me doing it. Goku and Vegeta never mentioned anything about absorption, even after the fight all they expected was a fair fight so absorption is out of question.

You know what, the very first thing he received was Gohan's Entire Ki, he even sensed it and said how Genki Dama was huge right from get go due to Ki from Gohan and his friends yet he needed more power. If Pure Boo was Weaker than Super Boo then he would have fired it straight away with Gohan's Ki but he said they needed more and that Whole universe was in danger if Genki Dama failed which would make no sense if Gohan alone can beat them. Gohan and Gotenks aren't dumb enough to fall for same trick, Goku was all about New Generation and One-on-One battle in this whole arc, the same Goku who tried to fight Pure Boo alone was planning on ganging up on him with Gotenks and Gohan on his side too. You are assuming they are concerned about planet destruction and all Pure Boo does is destroy planets when he never tried to destroy Kaioshin Realm but instead was sleeping, jiggling and drawing out the fight for fun.

Yea but it also implies that Gohan can't beat Boo on his own otherwise he would have allowed Gohan to fight him alone like he wanted with Piccolo-Absorbed Boo.

You misread it, I said that after taking Ki from Gohan and his friends he said it wasn't enough even though Vegeta asked to take as much Energy as possible. The Ki Goku gathered for Genki Dama in Saiyan arc wasn't even from population but rivers, trees and the nature so its obvious it will be weaker. The Ki Goku gathered for Genki Dama on Namek was also from plants and neighboring planets. Vegeta came back after taking on Genki Dama because he was that strong. It has got nothing to do with Pure Evil, what's this Theory? Even Cell can make a Genki Dama despite being Evil. Its just an Energy Ball, nothing more. When Already stronger Gohan is there, there is no need for Gotenks to give Ki. That's like saying why didn't Gohan and Kuririn powered up to maximim before giving Piccolo Ki to distract Freeza from killing Goku who was making Genki Dama.

None of what you mentioned is hole, you just made up things like how Pure Evil people can't touch it when that's not even mentioned in the show. It can destroy a planet if fired in wrong direction.


Yes then by that logic he should be afraid of Reacoom too, if destroying Planet is how someone is scaled in terms of danger. Kid Boo never tried to absorb Anyone on Kaioshin realm yet according to your logic he's only targeting Gohan LOL.

Goku said nothing like that, all he said was that he needs to Buildup Ki for a minute to wipe him. Gathering Ki has got nothing to do with increasing power. Kid Boo wasn't stopped, they just made him weaker by luck when they got their 2 most strongest Kaioshins absorbed who lowered his power. So, if Kaioshin influence made him weak, Super Boo had it, how can he possibly be stronger than Kid Boo who had none?

Nothing I said is headcanon. After getting Gohan's Full Ki, Goku said it wasn't enough to wipe Boo which makes him Stronger than Gohan. If Incomplete Genki Dama with Ki from Gohan which was stronger than Gohan's power was still not enough to wipe Boo then Kid Boo is stronger. Not to mention unlike Vegeta and Freeza, Kid Boo stopped the thing which had Power from entire Universe and was even pushing it back. It wasn't until Goku went SSJ and gave his own newly replenished Ki to it that
he was able to Kill him.

You still haven't refuted my point about how Goku stated that without Satan and Boo, everyone would have been killed. Implying Genki Dama was their only hope.
Desassina wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:31 pm
Gohan and Evil Boo (Super) being stronger than Goku and Pure Boo (Kid) is something that came from bad translations and scans during the early days of the internet. Herms had then conformed to the idea even when he translated the manga more accurately and decided to add a few notes for context. You would think that people knew how to read for themselves without the translator telling them what the lines meant but no. Here's an example:

"I told Boo that someone stronger than me would fight him". Herms added a note that failed to support the fact that Goku lied to Piccolo. Treating it as an inconsistency helps the case of Gotenks being stronger, but both of them overestimated fusion since Goku hadn't seen the boys fuse, and Piccolo took his word for granted due to his hope. It's one case where people will follow the notes over the lines in their context.

In other words, judge the work as is, not the author's intentions, and take lines not just for what they are, but their nuanced meaning as well.
Not a single line from manga, anime, guides or Interviews state things like Super Boo or Gohan is stronger than Kid Boo but I don't know why even after 2 decades people buy Viz Bullshit. In Original for example,


Original :
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption(s)…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”
Viz :
Elder Kaioshin: “So the Souls he Ate tamed him...then...This small Boo is the very first, Most difficult one?”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…He's lost the souls he gained...this Boo...is evil incarnate ”
See what I mean? They totally changed the context. In Japanese they clearly talk about power loss due to absorption but here in Viz it seems like they only talk about the absorptions calming his nature but not weakening him.
Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P4.6
Context: as Satan wants them to spare good Boo
Vegeta: “…Don’t you get it!? What do you intend to do if he gives birth to that terrible Boo again!? This time for sure it might really mean the end of the world! It’s best to kill him now. Got that, you idiot?!”

Chapter: 517 (DBZ 323), P5.4-5
Context: after Goku tells Dende to heal good Boo
Goku: “Well, it’s alright, ain’t it Vegeta? This Boo and Mister Satan both did well. If these two hadn’t been here, then we and everyone else would have been done in. Right?…And if worse comes to worse, we can just fight again. Let’s train so that this time for sure we won’t lose even if we go one-on-one.”
After the fight, Vegeta said that next time Boo comes back it will mean end of the World which means doom but people interpret it as End of Earth for some weird reason. Goku doesn't correct him by saying something like "We have Gohan so chill", he continues on his point that they will train to Stop Boo from doing it and fight if they have too. He mentioned it by saying how Everyone would have been killed if Satan and Good Boo hadn't been there on Kaioshin realm. Meaning Genki Dama was the final ultimate last resort.
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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:17 am

I certainly don’t buy the argument that Gohan and Gotenks would be stupid enough to be absorbed again or that Kid Boo would simply land on Earth and not fight properly its defenders.

Things only get complicated when you compare Goku with Gohan and Gotenks or with Super Boo. There were several implications that Goku was surpassed by these guys and he was able to fight evenly with Kid Boo for a while.

Anyway, selling genkidama to be the last hope, definitive solution for this arc, definitely seems to be the most safe direction to take. So, pick me on the side of Kid Boo being the strongest.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Kokonoe » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:27 pm

Let's say Kid Buu somehow is more powerful than Super Buu instead of just with more malice. The pure fact that Ultimate Gohan completely stomped Super Buu is a pretty good telling that any battle Kid Buu has with Ultimate Gohan is going to be extreme difficulty.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Ripper 30 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:31 am

Kokonoe wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:27 pm
Let's say Kid Buu somehow is more powerful than Super Buu instead of just with more malice. The pure fact that Ultimate Gohan completely stomped Super Buu is a pretty good telling that any battle Kid Buu has with Ultimate Gohan is going to be extreme difficulty.
Super Boo is Semi Perfect Cell, Ultimate Gohan is SSJ grade 2 Vegeta. Kid Boo is Perfect Cell. Does that make it simple for you?
The moment Goku took Gohan's power and said it wasn't enough, that should have been more than enough to conclude Kid Boo > Gohan. The incomplete Genki Dama was stronger than Gohan's power yet weaker than Kid Boo.
Also if Toriyama wanted to weaken Boo, then why would he bother having a line say that his Ki was rising right after they pulled out Good Boo from inside of Super Boo and never refute it later on and giving the answer to the rising Ki question by "He lost power through absorption" which directly proved Vegeta's speculation about Good Boo removal potentially weakening him wrong.
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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Block88 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:02 pm

Kid Buu isn’t the strongest so no
Don’t know why we need multiple threads on this tiresome debate.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:25 pm

Block88 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:02 pm
Kid Buu isn’t the strongest so no
Don’t know why we need multiple threads on this tiresome debate.
I do think this debate is useless, since people don’t usually get in agreement. But anyway, it’s expected that you engage it with reasons when it sums up.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:29 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:56 pm
Dbzfan94 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:02 am
All these different colored text made this borderline unreadable.
Now fine?
No. Please replace the white text with standard black text.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Skar » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:30 pm

The Super vs Kid Buu discussion has been going for many, many years. Both sides have their reasons and I doubt it's going to be settled in thread #63851421...but there's one point that probably shouldn't be used as evidence since it relies on misinformation:
Ripper 30 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:31 am
The moment Goku took Gohan's power and said it wasn't enough, that should have been more than enough to conclude Kid Boo > Gohan. The incomplete Genki Dama was stronger than Gohan's power yet weaker than Kid Boo.
I'm sure we're all read the interview explaining the various components of ki. Based on the name "Genki Dama", it only uses their Genki and not their entire energy. Otherwise Goten and Trunks could've fused and turned SSJ3 in order to give as much energy as possible and not raise their arms in base.

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by p-hyvo » Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:08 pm

Buu saga is just poorly written, fusion saga contradicts but saga directly a lot of times and dialogues often contradicts logic itself.
You are just over analizing it and try to make sense out of the contradictions that toriyama wrote
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Ripper 30 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:56 am

Block88 wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:02 pm
Kid Buu isn’t the strongest so no
Don’t know why we need multiple threads on this tiresome debate.
Unproven debate, either way it's about Him being stronger than Gohan. It's not useless, if you have a point then prove it or ignore this post.
p-hyvo wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 5:08 pm
Buu saga is just poorly written, fusion saga contradicts but saga directly a lot of times and dialogues often contradicts logic itself.
You are just over analizing it and try to make sense out of the contradictions that toriyama wrote
It's simple, the lazy route will be to make the last villain strongest of all and that's what he's known for and that's what happened.
Final Form Freeza, Arale, Zeno and Kid Boo are all small but smallest creature based off not only his interviews but narrative.
Elder Kaioshin: “…So he was finally completed…Which is to say…that this current…small Majin Boo…is the initial…mo…most troublesome one…”
Kaioshin: “….Yes…the heart which he gained by going so far as to lower his power through absorption(s)…has returned once again to the way it was…he has no self-control whatsoever…he has become evil itself…”
The context is power here, clearly.

Skar wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:30 pm
The Super vs Kid Buu discussion has been going for many, many years. Both sides have their reasons and I doubt it's going to be settled in thread #63851421...but there's one point that probably shouldn't be used as evidence since it relies on misinformation:
Ripper 30 wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:31 am
The moment Goku took Gohan's power and said it wasn't enough, that should have been more than enough to conclude Kid Boo > Gohan. The incomplete Genki Dama was stronger than Gohan's power yet weaker than Kid Boo.
I'm sure we're all read the interview explaining the various components of ki. Based on the name "Genki Dama", it only uses their Genki and not their entire energy. Otherwise Goten and Trunks could've fused and turned SSJ3 in order to give as much energy as possible and not raise their arms in base.
Genki translates to Origin of Ki. It's context is same as energy. It's interchangeably used with Power and Ki. Kibito-Kaioshin wasn't even able to move or teleport after giving his donation, what is stopping him from performing Teleportation? Why's everyone so tired? Because it takes Ki. The other things Toriyama mentioned alongside Genki were Yuuki (Courage) and Shouki (right mind). How can you send your mental state? Makes no sense. Goten and Trunks not going SSJ3 is unnecessary when already stronger Gohan is there and When Goku received it he says Ki. It's same reason Gohan and Kuririn don't power up to max when giving piccolo their Ki to help him distract Freeza from killing Goku.
Chapter: 514 (DBZ 320), P13.3-4
Context: after Gohan and co. contribute their genki to the Genki-Dama
Goku: “Oh! It’s here, it’s here! It’s already huge! This is Gohan and the others’ ki!”
Vegeta: “…Bu-but it’s not complete yet…Wh-why…?!”

Chapter: 515 (DBZ 321), P1.1
Context: after Gohan and co. contribute their genki to the Genki-Dama
Goku: “Hey, even this probably isn’t enough to wipe out Boo! What are they doing?! Hardly anyone but our friends is sending us ki!”

Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P8.5-6
Context: people on Namek and in the afterlife watch Boo stall the Genki-Dama
Elder Kaioshin: “Th-this is bad. Ma-maybe that ‘Genki-Dama’ thing st-still doesn’t have enough power…”
Dende: “Th-that can’t be…! We-we already used our ki…”
Enma Daio: “Ha-hang in there, Son Goku…! Th-that Genki-Dama has power from us here in the afterlife in it too…!”
Chapter: 237 (DBZ 43), P1.3/P3.6
Context: giving Kuririn the Genki-Dama
Goku: “Genki-Dama. Yes, ki that I gathered bit by bit from all over the Earth. About half of it got away, but I think there’s enough to beat him as he is now. [ ] Do it, Kuririn! Gohan couldn’t control such power.”
Chapter: 212 (DBZ 18), P5.1-2
Context: explaining the technique after Goku blows up a large brick with a Genki-Dama made from the energy of Kaio's planet
Kaio: “The Genki-Dama is a technique that takes just a little bit of the various energies held by grass or trees, humans or animals, or even in objects and the atmosphere, gathers it all together and then fires it. Even the Genki-Dama of such a small planet as this one had that much destructive power. The Earth where you’ll be fighting is so large you can’t even compare it to here. And if you’re able to make the sun, with its gigantic energy, into your ally…It will be a Genki-Dama with outrageous power. If you mess up, you could destroy the planet which you’re supposed to protect.”
Chapter: 315 (DBZ 121), P2.2-5, P3.1-2
Kuririn: “It-it’s huge…And it’s getting even bigger…”
Piccolo: “Is it really that big?”
Gohan: “On Earth it was about this big [he holds out his hands]”
Kuririn: “Th-this time its diameter is about 50 meters…He shouldn’t be able to make a Genki-Dama that huge on this planet…Goku must have even gathered ki from the surrounding planets…”
Piccolo: “Freeza doesn’t seem to have noticed yet…So why doesn’t Goku attack with that ball right away?...”
Kuririn: “Goku’s definitely thinking that if he doesn’t gather more ki and make it even huger, it won’t be able to defeat Freeza…”

Chapter: 315 (DBZ 121), P4.1
Goku: “This thing’s big weakness is the time it takes to gather ki…”

Chapter: 516 (DBZ 322), P9.1
Context: Dende asks Kaioshin to teleport him to go heal Goku
Kaioshin: “So-sorry…I used up my stamina just now [when he contributed to the Genki-Dama]…Until I recover, I can’t teleport…”
Clearly it takes Ki, Genki is Ki. Type Genki Dama on Google translate and it will translate as Energy Sphere. Genki is energy. Are you sure You are the one who's not misinformed? The term "Genki Dama" is used to make pun on "Denki Gama" Which means Electric Rice Cooker. The name has got nothing to do with it when characters receive Ki from everyone.
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Re: Pure Boo was definitely Stronger than Gohan

Post by Skar » Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:54 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:56 am
Clearly it takes Ki, Genki is Ki. Type Genki Dama on Google translate and it will translate as Energy Sphere. Genki is energy. Are you sure You are the one who's not misinformed? The term "Genki Dama" is used to make pun on "Denki Gama" Which means Electric Rice Cooker. The name has got nothing to do with it when characters receive Ki from everyone.
I'm not the one to come up with this and this is an old point that's already been brought up and refuted on the forum. Here's an old thread that explains it more detail.

Herms:
Yeah, I assume genki doesn't vary as much from person to person as overall ki. So a regular Earthling's battle power is 5 and Gohan's is 14 gazillion or whatever, but the amount of genki they have to donate wouldn't vary by nearly that much. In a pinch, this might also explain why when Babidi plugs in the energy Yamu and Spopovitch stole from Gohan into Boo's ball, he wonders how many "hundreds" of Earthlings the two must have gathered energy from.

Heck, maybe genki doesn't even vary at all between a different person's forms. Otherwise Goten and Trunks are being really stupid donating their energy in their regular form, as opposed to as Super Saiyans or as Gotenks. OK, so the kids are pretty stupid, but nothing is done to indicate that them donating their energy like that is supposed to be a mistake.


Someone else explained that "genki" could translate to vigor or stamina which might go down if they transform. At the most conservative estimate, SSJ3 Gotenks is a few hundred times stronger than base Goten and Trunks so it would make a huge difference if they contribute their overall ki to the Spirit Bomb and not only a component of it.

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