Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
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Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
The only one's I can think of are:
-Upa and Puar vs Dracula Man
-Jackie Chun vs Son Goku (Debatable): Jackie Chun was arguably stronger than Goku and even though he won through his leg trick, he only resorted to that because the Kamehameha had drained his strength.
I'm not counting Goku/Piccolo vs Raditz or Goku/Vegeta/Boo/Satan/Bee vs Boo since those come down to "my attack has more power than you so I win" even though they were weaker and still required strategy. I'm specifically referring to battles were the characters fighting are weaker and don't have moves that can overpower the opponent, yet still manage to pull out a win.
I'm specifically looking for examples outside the manga (not including Video Games).
-Upa and Puar vs Dracula Man
-Jackie Chun vs Son Goku (Debatable): Jackie Chun was arguably stronger than Goku and even though he won through his leg trick, he only resorted to that because the Kamehameha had drained his strength.
I'm not counting Goku/Piccolo vs Raditz or Goku/Vegeta/Boo/Satan/Bee vs Boo since those come down to "my attack has more power than you so I win" even though they were weaker and still required strategy. I'm specifically referring to battles were the characters fighting are weaker and don't have moves that can overpower the opponent, yet still manage to pull out a win.
I'm specifically looking for examples outside the manga (not including Video Games).
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Golden Freeza vs. SSJB Vegeta
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Hit defeat goku with skills and strategy
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Goku& Pan vs Oceanus Shenron?
Goku vs Naturon Shenron (Pan absorbed)?
The first one was won thanks to Pan finding a weak spot and Goku discovering her secret technique
The latter was won thank to Goku pretending to be dead and provoking Naturon to let his guard down so he could grab Pan
Goku vs Naturon Shenron (Pan absorbed)?
The first one was won thanks to Pan finding a weak spot and Goku discovering her secret technique
The latter was won thank to Goku pretending to be dead and provoking Naturon to let his guard down so he could grab Pan
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Hit vs. Dyspo
Gohan and Freeza vs. Dyspo
Gohan vs. Krillin
Goku vs. Fit Boo
Gohan and Freeza vs. Dyspo
Gohan vs. Krillin
Goku vs. Fit Boo
Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
It's interesting to see how so many of the fights cited seem to occur during DB Super. Original Dragon Ball does seem like a different kettle of fish when you think about how it became so rooted in quantitative power over everything else. DB Super still follows this tradition for the most part but it has flirted with the idea of a more skilled based mechanics system on occasion.
Some more examples from Toriyama's Dragon Ball might include General Blue fighting Goku and Guldo fighting Gohan and Krillin. Both psychic users ultimately lost due to external factors but they had their opponents dead to rights in the actual fight.
Some more examples from Toriyama's Dragon Ball might include General Blue fighting Goku and Guldo fighting Gohan and Krillin. Both psychic users ultimately lost due to external factors but they had their opponents dead to rights in the actual fight.
Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
I think Vegeta's second fight with Zarbon might count. It's quite possible Vegeta was still the weaker one of the two, what with him still being at less than 30k when he was so soundly trounced at 24k before. But he used the strategy of blinding Zarbon with sand and then landing some solid preemptive strikes, which served to weaken him and make him easier to finish off.
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Krillin vs Shosa is a battle won with strategy.
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Piccolo vs. Cell (1st Round)
There was no real victor per say but Cell did ultimately gain the upper hand by playing coy and using Piccolo's curiosity against him even though Piccolo could've killed him on the spot.
Vegeta vs. Zarbon (2nd Round) also counts for the same reason Kaboom mentioned..
There was no real victor per say but Cell did ultimately gain the upper hand by playing coy and using Piccolo's curiosity against him even though Piccolo could've killed him on the spot.
Vegeta vs. Zarbon (2nd Round) also counts for the same reason Kaboom mentioned..
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Bora and Puar vs Count Dracula
Goku vs Piccolo at the 23rd WMAT
Vegeta vs Zarbon
Goku vs Botamo
Goku vs Frost
Vegeta vs Hit
Goku vs Hit (Round 2)
Hit vs Dyspo
Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, #17 and Freeza vs Anilaza
Gohan and Freeza vs Dyspo
Goku vs Piccolo at the 23rd WMAT
Vegeta vs Zarbon
Goku vs Botamo
Goku vs Frost
Vegeta vs Hit
Goku vs Hit (Round 2)
Hit vs Dyspo
Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, #17 and Freeza vs Anilaza
Gohan and Freeza vs Dyspo
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Trunks vs. Black in episode 63
Trunks used his sword as a decoy to hit Black with a point blank punch and Galick Gun. So he won the fight, even though Black was the superior swordsman.
Trunks used his sword as a decoy to hit Black with a point blank punch and Galick Gun. So he won the fight, even though Black was the superior swordsman.
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Warning: slightly off-topic rant ahead.
There are some in the series as previously mentioned in other posts, but for the most part, "DB was all strategy and Z was all strength" is more of a meme that was taken seriously for Super. DB from the start was always about who was stronger, faster, and more durable with only mental maturity & martial experience being different factors otherwise. What people really mean by "DB had more strategy" is "DB had more techniques that weren't ki blasts and power boosts. Some of these techniques had extensive drawbacks that limited their practicality, restricting their use. But even most of these techniques would be useless against someone who was too much stronger than their user."
That, and it's looking at Z through a popular abridged lens, sort of like someone saying "Star Wars is all lightsabers and space dogfights."
There are some in the series as previously mentioned in other posts, but for the most part, "DB was all strategy and Z was all strength" is more of a meme that was taken seriously for Super. DB from the start was always about who was stronger, faster, and more durable with only mental maturity & martial experience being different factors otherwise. What people really mean by "DB had more strategy" is "DB had more techniques that weren't ki blasts and power boosts. Some of these techniques had extensive drawbacks that limited their practicality, restricting their use. But even most of these techniques would be useless against someone who was too much stronger than their user."
That, and it's looking at Z through a popular abridged lens, sort of like someone saying "Star Wars is all lightsabers and space dogfights."
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
I think Gohan is going to use that against 7-3. Probably will get touched. And tells him that Satan is much stronger than him. 7-3 buys it and gets killed by Piccolo and Gohan.
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
I never believed UI was a 100 % coincidence. It didn't make any sense. Goku must have had some training from Whis to evoke UI in very extreme circumstances. Pretty much like Merus is doing with him right now in Moro-arc. In that case, as he wasn't able to master the form, it could have been a very clever strategy to use the Spirit Bomb in order to further ascend during battle. That way he could bade in the energy and unlock a new power. I otherwise never fully understood why he had taken that risk to generate such an explosion, with the chance of being killed or other members of U7 to be eliminated in the process, reducing their chances of survival even more.
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Goku's fight with Buyon. He destroys the tower wall in order to freeze and destroy him without his Kamehamehas bouncing off.
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Piccolo and Goku vs. Raditz, for that matter. Raditz would have toasted both of them if Goku hadn't taken one for the team.
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
One of the greatest examples of strategy in DBZ was the one semi-perfect Cell used against Vegeta. Cell was outclassed in terms of raw strength by Vegetas newly attained SSJ1 grade 2 form. However he knew Vegeta was a very proud man because he carried his cells in him. Cell convinced Vegeta, so he could absord 18 and challenge Vegeta to face "the ultimate warrior", creating a massive power gap in the process. Normally Vegeta isn't stupid, but this was one of the stupidest things he had ever done. Evoked by his own pride and Cells clever strategy. Cell would otherwise never have won that battle, without absorbing 18.
Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Suprised no one mentioned iconic Goku/Kid Boo Genki Dama struggle
While the struggle itself was rightful representation of "strategy" but rather individual stamina & strength, the battle was won via strategy nonetheless
Kid Boo outlasted SSJ3, SSJ2-tiers & wrecked havoc on Kaioshin Realm.
1. Idea of Genki Dama was brought-up by Veggie
2. Ressurectin Earth & humans were done thx to New Namek's DB & Porunga. Fortunate enuf Kibito Kai & Dende came in handy at those crucial moments
3. It's message was spread across thx to Kaiosama
4. Goku was anchor
5. Mr. Satan helped complete Genki Dama & saved Veggie from Kid Boo's hostage
Those were strategy. And quite frankly, it's an underrated sequence of Boo Arc showcasing Toriyama's brilliant writing
While the struggle itself was rightful representation of "strategy" but rather individual stamina & strength, the battle was won via strategy nonetheless
Kid Boo outlasted SSJ3, SSJ2-tiers & wrecked havoc on Kaioshin Realm.
1. Idea of Genki Dama was brought-up by Veggie
2. Ressurectin Earth & humans were done thx to New Namek's DB & Porunga. Fortunate enuf Kibito Kai & Dende came in handy at those crucial moments
3. It's message was spread across thx to Kaiosama
4. Goku was anchor
5. Mr. Satan helped complete Genki Dama & saved Veggie from Kid Boo's hostage
Those were strategy. And quite frankly, it's an underrated sequence of Boo Arc showcasing Toriyama's brilliant writing
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
Goku defeated Capt Ginyu with a frog, stopping his body-switch technique.
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Re: Are there any examples of a character winning a battle through strategy instead of strength?
I mean, the original poster said he was looking for non-manga examples lol. That being said these gonna primarily come from GT or Super.
Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta couldnt be directly defeated by Goku on his own but between Oob given the infected Vegeta the bubble gutts, Goku borrowing energy from Gohan and Co he was able to incapacitate the possessed were-monkey but only after removing the tail was Bebi truly forced to retreat.
Bebi also pushing all of his future hosts to power up so he could then make his move to possess them. Great for using the heroes' main weapon (strength) against them.
Goku and 18 vs Super 17. While a bit contrived in its own right. Keeping 17 busy by feeding him energy made him wide open to pretty much any other attack.
The Five Star Dragon was beaten by rain also.
Also I agree with the person thats annoyed by people saying "HA Dragon BOWL ZEE is just sreaming and Laser beams, OH GEE DraGUN BOwl Had Da Real Strats".
Oozaru Bebi-Vegeta couldnt be directly defeated by Goku on his own but between Oob given the infected Vegeta the bubble gutts, Goku borrowing energy from Gohan and Co he was able to incapacitate the possessed were-monkey but only after removing the tail was Bebi truly forced to retreat.
Bebi also pushing all of his future hosts to power up so he could then make his move to possess them. Great for using the heroes' main weapon (strength) against them.
Goku and 18 vs Super 17. While a bit contrived in its own right. Keeping 17 busy by feeding him energy made him wide open to pretty much any other attack.
The Five Star Dragon was beaten by rain also.
Also I agree with the person thats annoyed by people saying "HA Dragon BOWL ZEE is just sreaming and Laser beams, OH GEE DraGUN BOwl Had Da Real Strats".
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