Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Nazi Cola » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:09 am

Beerus freaked out when Goku unleashed Kaio-ken x10 during the Universe 6 bout, but we all know how that turned out. I take his expression during the Tournament of Power as worry for his universe's chances of survival. It would have been one thing if the entire Universe 11 team collectively had God of Destruction tier power, but when one of them is at that level and there are others that are also stiff competition on the team, it makes it that much harder and more dire.
CatouttaHell wrote:I guess he's just impossibly powerful and he now gets thrills from letting things go as much to hell as possible before busting out his ultimate power and ending the villain or some shit.

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:20 am

Berserker1921 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:28 pm
No, as I see it. I think he was worried about his team. Listen, we don’t know how strong Jiren was. Some stuff say he was above all gods. Some other stuff claim, he’s only stronger than belmond. Personally in that situation, I think Beerus was freaking out, because he knew his team at the time had nothing on jiren. Before going to the TOP, he was sure that his team or universe had a 60-70% chance of winning.

Probably thought Toppo and Hit were the only true threats to worry about. And for the most part he was right. Save for the fusions and Jiren. Those two were the most dangerous fighters at the time. However, he was confident that Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza could handle them. But when Jiren, actually started to try. Or show a glimpse of his true power, Beerus freaked out. It wasn’t that he was scared of Jiren’s power on a personal level. He was worried about his team.
If Beerus was simply afraid of his team losing and not stating his observation of Jiren's power then he would have said exactly that. Beerus didn't say "Uh oh, this guy has the strength to beat my entire team!", he said "Is this really the energy from just one warrior?!" while sensing the power that Jiren finally let loose. For Belmod, a fellow Hakaishin, to recognize Jiren as being his superior in strength and for Beerus to acknowledge that Jiren really does have the power to back up that claim, fear from Beerus of his team losing is likely due to the fact that they're facing someone greater in raw strength than himself.
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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:22 am

Nazi Cola wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:09 am
Beerus freaked out when Goku unleashed Kaio-ken x10 during the Universe 6 bout, but we all know how that turned out. I take his expression during the Tournament of Power as worry for his universe's chances of survival. It would have been one thing if the entire Universe 11 team collectively had God of Destruction tier power, but when one of them is at that level and there are others that are also stiff competition on the team, it makes it that much harder and more dire.
I think Beerus was more freaked out about the fact that Goku had such a power-up than by Goku's actual strength at that point.
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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Berserker1921 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 am

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:20 am
Berserker1921 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:28 pm
No, as I see it. I think he was worried about his team. Listen, we don’t know how strong Jiren was. Some stuff say he was above all gods. Some other stuff claim, he’s only stronger than belmond. Personally in that situation, I think Beerus was freaking out, because he knew his team at the time had nothing on jiren. Before going to the TOP, he was sure that his team or universe had a 60-70% chance of winning.

Probably thought Toppo and Hit were the only true threats to worry about. And for the most part he was right. Save for the fusions and Jiren. Those two were the most dangerous fighters at the time. However, he was confident that Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza could handle them. But when Jiren, actually started to try. Or show a glimpse of his true power, Beerus freaked out. It wasn’t that he was scared of Jiren’s power on a personal level. He was worried about his team.
If Beerus was simply afraid of his team losing and not stating his observation of Jiren's power then he would have said exactly that. Beerus didn't say "Uh oh, this guy has the strength to beat my entire team!", he said "Is this really the energy from just one warrior?!" while sensing the power that Jiren finally let loose. For Belmod, a fellow Hakaishin, to recognize Jiren as being his superior in strength and for Beerus to acknowledge that Jiren really does have the power to back up that claim, fear from Beerus of his team losing is likely due to the fact that they're facing someone greater in raw strength than himself.
Trust me. I love Jiren. As of now, I think Jiren with access to his LP power up. Is probably low angel tier by now. I think personally at that time, in eps109. Beerus was shook because he knew none of his guys were up to snuff against Jiren. He was cautiously optimistic before that point. He obviously knew Goku had kkx20. So that indicated, he had been paying attention to they’re progress. Both Goku and Vegeta. Thats why he was nervous as hell. He knew that at that time, neither those two had any power, even close to suppressed Jiren.

But I have a theory, that Beerus and possibly the other gods could sense Jiren’s full power. However, some were in denial like Champa and mosco. Beerus is possibly hundreds of millions of years old, who has been around for a while. Met and fought pretty strong beings. Sometimes you can pick up on things that others don’t. Goku and Vegeta, while not in denial. They thought they could prevail. And beat Jiren by they’re sheer will. I mean look how much they accomplished in 40-50 years?

But Beerus knew. Also, you wouldn’t tell others that this guy was stronger than you out right. Out loud, anyways. Or tell your team your fucked. It destroys morale. If Beerus said you guys are fucked or even I would have issues with Jiren out loud. That would crush the team. Also, it would give saiyans the pleasure of knowing that if they can beat Jiren. They can surely beat you. It’s all about having a poker face.

But back to the original subject. Vegeta doesn’t the have the power to match Beerus. He may learn some new skills on yardrat. But sheer power overwhelming a foe, defies skill in dragonball. For the most part.

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:24 am

Berserker1921 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 am
Trust me. I love Jiren. As of now, I think Jiren with access to his LP power up. Is probably low angel tier by now. I think personally at that time, in eps109. Beerus was shook because he knew none of his guys were up to snuff against Jiren. He was cautiously optimistic before that point. He obviously knew Goku had kkx20. So that indicated, he had been paying attention to they’re progress. Both Goku and Vegeta. Thats why he was nervous as hell. He knew that at that time, neither those two had any power, even close to suppressed Jiren.

But I have a theory, that Beerus and possibly the other gods could sense Jiren’s full power. However, some were in denial like Champa and mosco. Beerus is possibly hundreds of millions of years old, who has been around for a while. Met and fought pretty strong beings. Sometimes you can pick up on things that others don’t. Goku and Vegeta, while not in denial. They thought they could prevail. And beat Jiren by they’re sheer will. I mean look how much they accomplished in 40-50 years?

But Beerus knew. Also, you wouldn’t tell others that this guy was stronger than you out right. Out loud, anyways. Or tell your team your fucked. It destroys morale. If Beerus said you guys are fucked or even I would have issues with Jiren out loud. That would crush the team. Also, it would give saiyans the pleasure of knowing that if they can beat Jiren. They can surely beat you. It’s all about having a poker face.

But back to the original subject. Vegeta doesn’t the have the power to match Beerus. He may learn some new skills on yardrat. But sheer power overwhelming a foe, defies skill in dragonball. For the most part.
Ok then, we can agree Jiren is stronger than Beerus since all evidence points to it.

I will admit that Vegeta isn't guaranteed a victory against Beerus, it might not even come from a hard-earned struggle of blows or a beam struggle but from Beerus underestimating Vegeta or just sheer dumb luck. However, for Vegeta to challenge someone stronger than Beerus and then continue to improve since then with new abilities, Vegeta has a shot here. Maybe not a great shot or even a good shot but a shot nonetheless.
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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Berserker1921 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:34 am

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:24 am
Berserker1921 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:51 am
Trust me. I love Jiren. As of now, I think Jiren with access to his LP power up. Is probably low angel tier by now. I think personally at that time, in eps109. Beerus was shook because he knew none of his guys were up to snuff against Jiren. He was cautiously optimistic before that point. He obviously knew Goku had kkx20. So that indicated, he had been paying attention to they’re progress. Both Goku and Vegeta. Thats why he was nervous as hell. He knew that at that time, neither those two had any power, even close to suppressed Jiren.

But I have a theory, that Beerus and possibly the other gods could sense Jiren’s full power. However, some were in denial like Champa and mosco. Beerus is possibly hundreds of millions of years old, who has been around for a while. Met and fought pretty strong beings. Sometimes you can pick up on things that others don’t. Goku and Vegeta, while not in denial. They thought they could prevail. And beat Jiren by they’re sheer will. I mean look how much they accomplished in 40-50 years?

But Beerus knew. Also, you wouldn’t tell others that this guy was stronger than you out right. Out loud, anyways. Or tell your team your fucked. It destroys morale. If Beerus said you guys are fucked or even I would have issues with Jiren out loud. That would crush the team. Also, it would give saiyans the pleasure of knowing that if they can beat Jiren. They can surely beat you. It’s all about having a poker face.

But back to the original subject. Vegeta doesn’t the have the power to match Beerus. He may learn some new skills on yardrat. But sheer power overwhelming a foe, defies skill in dragonball. For the most part.
Ok then, we can agree Jiren is stronger than Beerus since all evidence points to it.

I will admit that Vegeta isn't guaranteed a victory against Beerus, it might not even come from a hard-earned struggle of blows or a beam struggle but from Beerus underestimating Vegeta or just sheer dumb luck. However, for Vegeta to challenge someone stronger than Beerus and then continue to improve since then with new abilities, Vegeta has a shot here. Maybe not a great shot or even a good shot but a shot nonetheless.
No. I mean, let’s say for argument sake. Beerus=70% Jiren or eps127 Jiren. While Vegeta was still in the battle. He couldn’t do anything to Jiren. Even at 50-60% Jiren or episodes 123-126 Jiren. Jiren wasn’t really trying with him. Or even threatened. And that was with Goku’s help. I don’t think he has grown much from ToP arc. I feel he may get a good shot in if Beerus is cocky. But I doubt that will happen. Cause Beerus has something that Jiren doesn’t have. Incomplete UI or UI omen. Which will make all the difference in a battle. How can you beat someone, you can’t hit. And if Vegeta isn’t stronger than him or near his power, he can’t touch him.

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:02 am

Berserker1921 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:34 am
No. I mean, let’s say for argument sake. Beerus=70% Jiren or eps127 Jiren. While Vegeta was still in the battle. He couldn’t do anything to Jiren. Even at 50-60% Jiren or episodes 123-126 Jiren. Jiren wasn’t really trying with him. Or even threatened. And that was with Goku’s help. I don’t think he has grown much from ToP arc. I feel he may get a good shot in if Beerus is cocky. But I doubt that will happen. Cause Beerus has something that Jiren doesn’t have. Incomplete UI or UI omen. Which will make all the difference in a battle. How can you beat someone, you can’t hit. And if Vegeta isn’t stronger than him or near his power, he can’t touch him.
Beerus=70% of Jiren is low-balling Jiren if the statements & hype are taken as being factual. At no point has Belmod ever implied that he(or other Hakaishin that he is comparable to) is only a little bit weaker than Jiren otherwise he would have made the point to mention a specific comparison. If Jiren can make a guy who is 75+ million years old that knows of several other beings, all as strong & stronger than himself, sweat and ask if a single fighter(sitting at maybe half-strength) can have that kind of power then that speaks for itself. Beerus has made the point of mentioning a mere handful of other characters as having immense strength and made him sweat upon seeing their presence/power, the fact that Jiren is one of them also speaks for itself.
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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Berserker1921 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:14 am

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:02 am
Berserker1921 wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:34 am
No. I mean, let’s say for argument sake. Beerus=70% Jiren or eps127 Jiren. While Vegeta was still in the battle. He couldn’t do anything to Jiren. Even at 50-60% Jiren or episodes 123-126 Jiren. Jiren wasn’t really trying with him. Or even threatened. And that was with Goku’s help. I don’t think he has grown much from ToP arc. I feel he may get a good shot in if Beerus is cocky. But I doubt that will happen. Cause Beerus has something that Jiren doesn’t have. Incomplete UI or UI omen. Which will make all the difference in a battle. How can you beat someone, you can’t hit. And if Vegeta isn’t stronger than him or near his power, he can’t touch him.
Beerus=70% of Jiren is low-balling Jiren if the statements & hype are taken as being factual. At no point has Belmod ever implied that he(or other Hakaishin that he is comparable to) is only a little bit weaker than Jiren otherwise he would have made the point to mention a specific comparison. If Jiren can make a guy who is 75+ million years old that knows of several other beings, all as strong & stronger than himself, sweat and ask if a single fighter(sitting at maybe half-strength) can have that kind of power then that speaks for itself. Beerus has made the point of mentioning a mere handful of other characters as having immense strength and made him sweat upon seeing their presence/power, the fact that Jiren is one of them also speaks for itself.
That’s what I am saying! I am saying that Vegeta as of now. Doesn’t have a shot against Beerus who is in the 50-80% range of Jiren.

And Vegeta couldn’t do anything to Jiren. Even when acquiring a new form, that rivals Ssjblue kkx20 Goku. So, Beerus beats him up like he did in the manga, before the ToP.

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Miracles » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:53 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:20 am
Berserker1921 wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:28 pm
No, as I see it. I think he was worried about his team. Listen, we don’t know how strong Jiren was. Some stuff say he was above all gods. Some other stuff claim, he’s only stronger than belmond. Personally in that situation, I think Beerus was freaking out, because he knew his team at the time had nothing on jiren. Before going to the TOP, he was sure that his team or universe had a 60-70% chance of winning.

Probably thought Toppo and Hit were the only true threats to worry about. And for the most part he was right. Save for the fusions and Jiren. Those two were the most dangerous fighters at the time. However, he was confident that Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza could handle them. But when Jiren, actually started to try. Or show a glimpse of his true power, Beerus freaked out. It wasn’t that he was scared of Jiren’s power on a personal level. He was worried about his team.
If Beerus was simply afraid of his team losing and not stating his observation of Jiren's power then he would have said exactly that. Beerus didn't say "Uh oh, this guy has the strength to beat my entire team!", he said "Is this really the energy from just one warrior?!" while sensing the power that Jiren finally let loose. For Belmod, a fellow Hakaishin, to recognize Jiren as being his superior in strength and for Beerus to acknowledge that Jiren really does have the power to back up that claim, fear from Beerus of his team losing is likely due to the fact that they're facing someone greater in raw strength than himself.
Beerus was surprised at Jiren's power. Hence why he stated he couldn't believe a mortal had such high energy.

Later Beerus cracks his knuckles and is excited to see UI Goku.

People are reading too much into things. :lol:
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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Mister_Popo » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:42 pm

Maybe the original BOG-movie Beerus, not the current version of Beerus in manga / anime Super as far as i'm concerned. I don't feel he has a real chance. The only reason why Vegeta wouldn't get killed when attempting this, are his merrits during TOP. He would get a massive beating nontheless for being so naughty (as in manga chapter 27 if i'm correct).

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:47 pm

Beerus is probably around the same level as Ultra Instinct Omen Goku I think... because they both have Ultra Instinct but haven't perfected it.
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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:22 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:47 pm
Beerus is probably around the same level as Ultra Instinct Omen Goku I think... because they both have Ultra Instinct but haven't perfected it.



First of all, it's perfectly reasonable, based on what we know now, to assume Beerus is on pair with UI Omen.
He is at least that strong.

But couldn't he as well be stronger? Beerus has been around for thousands of years. So he had lot's of time to evolve.
Goku is basically just born in comparison to Beerus. Couldn't he be simply stronger than or on pair with Completed UI Goku, regardless of the fact he only has partial UI?

A being like Jiren is immensely strong but he doesn't even apply God-Ki, as far as we know, let alone UI.
But he did manage to go toe to toe with a fighter who had Completed UI nontheless. It took an enraged CUI Goku to take him down.

I see UI as an additional technique, which results in becoming more power efficient at the end. But raw 'base power' obviously determines strength as well. If Beerus applies partial UI to this already massive strength he has gained through the centuries, he still may leave Completed UI Goku in the dust or at least provide a descent challenge?

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:02 pm

Well it's been outright stated that Jiren is stronger than Belmod, and Belmod is implied to be at least on par with Beerus.
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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:03 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 5:02 pm
Well it's been outright stated that Jiren is stronger than Belmod, and Belmod is implied to be at least on par with Beerus.

According to Whis he was indeed 'not as strong' as Belmod.
He only lost to Belmod in an arm wrestling match, according to Beerus himself?
Could Whis have been joking to troll Beerus during that conversation?

The manga battle between the Gods didn't depict Belmod to be the strongest.

You could be 100 % right though. But i like to keep my reserves concerning Beerus true power, untill further proof is given.
He has gained massive strength since the BOG movie already.

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 pm

An arm wrestling match is totally different from a real fight. So far, neither Goku nor Beerus have mastered Ultra Instinct, but it’s logical to assume Beerus is closer to that point than Goku is. So, considering everything that Goku managed in that state, it’s possible that Beerus can defeat Vermoud, perhaps even Jiren.

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:16 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 pm
An arm wrestling match is totally different from a real fight. So far, neither Goku nor Beerus have mastered Ultra Instinct, but it’s logical to assume Beerus is closer to that point than Goku is. So, considering everything that Goku managed in that state, it’s possible that Beerus can defeat Vermoud, perhaps even Jiren.
Quitela apparently doesn't know UI quite to Beerus' degree but managed to last as long as Beerus against the other Hakaishin. It seems having a slight edge with UI doesn't give any noticeable boost to power which would not fair well against Jiren's overwhelming strength.
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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:03 am

theherodjl wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:16 am
Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:42 pm
An arm wrestling match is totally different from a real fight. So far, neither Goku nor Beerus have mastered Ultra Instinct, but it’s logical to assume Beerus is closer to that point than Goku is. So, considering everything that Goku managed in that state, it’s possible that Beerus can defeat Vermoud, perhaps even Jiren.
Quitela apparently doesn't know UI quite to Beerus' degree but managed to last as long as Beerus against the other Hakaishin. It seems having a slight edge with UI doesn't give any noticeable boost to power which would not fair well against Jiren's overwhelming strength.
I’m not talking about strength, I’m talking about a real fight. Goku showed that Ultra Instinct can at least compete with Jiren. If Beerus has more experience than Goku with it, then it’s a given the possibility that he can defeat Jiren.

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:40 am

They also said that Broly 'might be' stronger than Beerus, but is Broly > Jiren?
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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:11 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:40 am
They also said that Broly 'might be' stronger than Beerus, but is Broly > Jiren?
There isn’t a confirmation yet, but he is hyped as the strongest enemy Goku has ever faced. It’s difficult to tell without a proper match.

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Re: Can Vegeta Defeat Beerus In A Fight Now?

Post by Berserker1921 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:34 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:40 am
They also said that Broly 'might be' stronger than Beerus, but is Broly > Jiren?
Goku is an unreliable source for knowing this. He has never seen Beerus at full power. He has seen Jiren, but even then had to acquire a massive power up that may have surpassed fusion, to defeat said being. The only person who can really gives us answers is Whis. He trained Beerus. He saw Broly at his max power and didn’t look that impressed.

As of now or at least by hype, FP Beerus>Broly

But what we were trying say is can Vegeta currently with ssjbE and new training, can he beat Beerus?

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