Realization about DBS Broly's Super Saiyan form..

[miguelnuva1]

Broly should have a 50x ssj form and a 500x ssj + ikari form.

[MechaTrunks]

I realize that since Broly didn't transform into a Super Saiyan when he went berserk it seems that his Super Saiyan form is unlikely to be unlocked by anger. Though its possible.

There are two tipes of anger in Dragon Ball: simple, traditional anger which every villian has (no one can't say Vegeta wasn't angry when Goku surpassed him with the KKx3 and decided he would blow up the entire planet) and then there's that anger towards not just the enemy but also oneself (impotence) which is the one that turns you into a SSJ (Vegeta got it when he realized he had reached his limits without being a SSJ and that Goku and that other unknown nobody that was Trunks for him managed to reach the SSJ form).

Broly has a lot of both kinds of anger, but for him it still works like for the rest of the regular saiyans:

To unlock the SSJ he still had to have an "impotence" rage boost when he was at his peak of the base state.
From what we know, the only moment in his life where this could have happened was when he was a kid, he befriended that beast from his planet and his father attacked the beast breaking their friendship.
But Broly was a kid, he was badly trained and he probably wasn't at the limit of his base state when the rage boost happened.

In the movie it's made pretty obvious that Broly has reached his base state limit and that his power could no longuer increase, and it's at that moment that Freezer kills his father, triggering the kind of rage boost that unlocks the SSJ forms on him.

Broly should have a 50x ssj form and a 500x ssj + ikari form.

The SSJ aren't fixed multipliers, and seeing his performance in the fight compared to his base state (and his complete lack of training) it's obvious that the SSJ forms had very limited multipliers for him (1,5-3x in his SSJ form and 4-5x his base state in his ikari form at best).

Regards!

[miguelnuva1]

[

Broly should have a 50x ssj form and a 500x ssj + ikari form.

The SSJ aren't fixed multipliers, and seeing his performance in the fight compared to his base state (and his complete lack of training) it's obvious that the SSJ forms had very limited multipliers for him (1,5-3x in his SSJ form and 4-5x his base state in his ikari form at best).

Regards!

Expect SSJ is a fixed multiplier and Ikari is stated to be the power of Oozaru.

[MechaTrunks]

Expect SSJ is a fixed multiplier and Ikari is stated to be the power of Oozaru.

The SSJ being a fixed multiplier breaks the internal coherence of the whole series, defeats the purpose of all the trainings seen in the Cell saga and breaks Super even more where Toriyama made it pretty clear with Vegeta and Trunks SSJ2s equalling or surpassing in the case of Vegeta Goku's SSJ3.

The power of the Oozaru was only mentioned in the Broly movie BEFORE Broly turned SSJ, not to justify the power up between his "regular" SSJ form and the SSJ Ikari one (I think he was always in Ikari, just forcing his body more and more and that's why his muscles increased like when Freezer used his 100%).

Regards!

[miguelnuva1]

Expect SSJ is a fixed multiplier and Ikari is stated to be the power of Oozaru.

The SSJ being a fixed multiplier breaks the internal coherence of the whole series, defeats the purpose of all the trainings seen in the Cell saga and breaks Super even more where Toriyama made it pretty clear with Vegeta and Trunks SSJ2s equalling or surpassing in the case of Vegeta Goku's SSJ3.

The power of the Oozaru was only mentioned in the Broly movie BEFORE Broly turned SSJ, not to justify the power up between his "regular" SSJ form and the SSJ Ikari one (I think he was always in Ikari, just forcing his body more and more and that's why his muscles increased like when Freezer used his 100%).

Regards!

SSJ is stated to be 50x the power of base. The training in the cell saga was because the 50x boost wasn't enough and they needed to ascended in order to break the ssj wall. Once the wall was broken they could power up their base and ssj forms. Vegeta's ssj2 form got stronger because his base form increased with it.

The oozaru power we know is the difference between ssj Broly and SSJ ikari Broly because Ikari would only be the difference between the two ssj forms.

[MechaTrunks]

SSJ is stated to be 50x the power of base. The training in the cell saga was because the 50x boost wasn't enough and they needed to ascended in order to break the ssj wall. Once the wall was broken they could power up their base and ssj forms. Vegeta's ssj2 form got stronger because his base form increased with it.

The oozaru power we know is the difference between ssj Broly and SSJ ikari Broly because Ikari would only be the difference between the two ssj forms.

The 50x multiplier has NOT been stated in any canon material, it's just a statment from the same guide that gave Napa 4000 units of strength (yes, the same Nappa that after having lost some energy managed to fight at the same level as 8000+ Goku. And he was given just 4000).

There are so many things that contradict that 50x multiplier in Namek, beginning by the way the 50x multiplier was calculated (the reasoning being: if Freezer was 40x and SSJ Goku won, let's give him 50x).

The only stated and confirmed SSJ multiplier (and it was stated by Toriyama himself) was Goku in Namek being a 10x increase more or less.

Regarding the base state limit, it's not broken untill an ancient God dances around you for 3 hours or you perform the SSJGod ritual.
Not only isn't there a single feat from Goku or any other saiyan proving that this base state limit can be broken -and some feats demonstrating that there is- but it was also confirmed in the DBS manga that the saiyans have no zenkais because they've reached it (that was the difference between them and Black).

And the Oozaru thing was mentioned before Brolly turned into a SSJ, not afterwards, he had already used his Oozaru power prior to turning into a SSJ.
So if that 10x multiplier applied, it had to be the moment he turned into a SSJ.
Any power up in SSJ form, it's Broly being Broly, but you can't use the Oozaru statement where you would have liked it instead of where it was actually made.

Regards!

[Hugo Boss]

The only stated and confirmed SSJ multiplier (and it was stated by Toriyama himself) was Goku in Namek being a 10x increase more or less.

I think you are referring to this interview.

He is not really overwriting the 50-fold multiplier, since the number was re-printed in the same book as that interview, but rather admitting his feeling as the creator, that Super Saiyan seems more like a 10-fold increase, but ended up being too bloated.

Regards!

I’ve seen that before.

[MechaTrunks]

I think you are referring to this interview.

He is not really overwriting the 50-fold multiplier, since the number was re-printed in the same book as that interview, but rather admitting his feeling as the creator, that Super Saiyan seems more like a 10-fold increase, but ended up being too bloated.

Well, he's saying that he drew that scene with a 10x multiplier on mind (which is a mulitplier that actually makes sense considering what's seen in the manga), a 50x multiplier would be incoherent with the internal rules of the series.
More than "overwritting", he is directly negating it.

Regards!

[ankokudaishogun]

Well, he's saying that he drew that scene with a 10x multiplier on mind (which is a mulitplier that actually makes sense considering what's seen in the manga), a 50x multiplier would be incoherent with the internal rules of the series.

how so? Goku was using a x20 multiplier with Kaiohken, and it wasn't enough.

[MechaTrunks]

Well, he's saying that he drew that scene with a 10x multiplier on mind (which is a mulitplier that actually makes sense considering what's seen in the manga), a 50x multiplier would be incoherent with the internal rules of the series.

how so? Goku was using a x20 multiplier with Kaiohken, and it wasn't enough.

The KKx20 multiplier wasn't enough when Freezer was fresh and uninjured. After taking a huge Genkidama that nearly killed him, it would have been different.
Krilin was much weaker than Vegeta, but even a weakened Krilin would've been able to kill Vegeta if it hadn't been for Goku asking him to stop.

Power levels aren't constant in DB, the Freezer before the Genkidama didn't have the same strength as the Freezer badly injured by it.

Regards!

[theherodjl]

The KKx20 multiplier wasn't enough when Freezer was fresh and uninjured. After taking a huge Genkidama that nearly killed him, it would have been different.
Krilin was much weaker than Vegeta, but even a weakened Krilin would've been able to kill Vegeta if it hadn't been for Goku asking him to stop.

Power levels aren't constant in DB, the Freezer before the Genkidama didn't have the same strength as the Freezer badly injured by it.

Regards!

While I don't doubt that Freeza lost a noticeable degree of power, Vegeta lost nearly all of his during the fight on Earth so its not necessarily a similar comparison. Considering that Freeza still had a great deal of stamina left, I'd say that he lost between 1/4th to 1/3rd of his power at most so it would still take more than a x20 powerup for Goku to beat Freeza.

[MechaTrunks]

While I don't doubt that Freeza lost a noticeable degree of power, Vegeta lost nearly all of his during the fight on Earth so its not necessarily a similar comparison. Considering that Freeza still had a great deal of stamina left, I'd say that he lost between 1/4th to 1/3rd of his power at most so it would still take more than a x20 powerup for Goku to beat Freeza.

It depends on the situation.
While it's true that Vegeta lost his power gradually in his battle against the z-warriors, you have Raditz that went from unstopable beast even when he was just playing to not being able to free himself from a very injured Goku that wasn't even holding him by his tail (so his power got reduced to 1/20th of his maximum in just 1 hit!).

Regarding Freezer, he almost died and his injuries were stated to be bad, so just 1/4th or 1/3rd of his energy counting everything (the Genkidama surely was the biggest hit he took, but there was also the KKx20 where Goku could also inflict a bit of damage, and also all the beating he takes after the Genkidama) seems far too low.

At 1/4 of his strength Freezer would still be in a similar condition than Vegeta at the moment when he turned into an Oozaru (after he made the moon), but without his Oozaru form of course.

Regards!

[miguelnuva1]

Well, he's saying that he drew that scene with a 10x multiplier on mind (which is a mulitplier that actually makes sense considering what's seen in the manga), a 50x multiplier would be incoherent with the internal rules of the series.

how so? Goku was using a x20 multiplier with Kaiohken, and it wasn't enough.

The KKx20 multiplier wasn't enough when Freezer was fresh and uninjured. After taking a huge Genkidama that nearly killed him, it would have been different.
Krilin was much weaker than Vegeta, but even a weakened Krilin would've been able to kill Vegeta if it hadn't been for Goku asking him to stop.

Power levels aren't constant in DB, the Freezer before the Genkidama didn't have the same strength as the Freezer badly injured by it.

Regards!

You're ignoring how stories build up tension now and what the story is telling us just to defend you own head canon now. If Goku and Frieza are fighting in forms weaker than the pre spirit bomb is takes away the feeling of this being the greatest battle they had up to that point. If Frieza is less than 100% Toriyama would have told us that.There would be some mention that the Spirit Bomb stop Frieza from hitting his true maximum power.

Frieza doesn't start getting weaker till Goku mentions he's lost power. We have no reason to think Goku's ssj power didn't surpass anything he did before and no reason to think Frieza didn't hit 100% of his power.

[MechaTrunks]

You're ignoring how stories build up tension now and what the story is telling us just to defend you own head canon now.

Toriyama usually designed combat scenarios that defied the usual rules of how stories are built.
In the Nappa vs Goku fight the overall purpose of Nappa was to demonstrate how strong the saiyans were in comparison to the Z warriors (who all had powered up, at least, to Radiz levels of power) and then how strong Goku was after training with Kaito.
According to your way of thinking, Nappa should be stronger than the z-warriors (which he was) but also weaker than Goku (which he clearly wasn't).
Another example would be Vegeta vs A18, in this case designing a fight that made A18 seem much more intimidating than she would have been if the fight had gone, with the exact sama ideas, in a different way.

If Goku and Frieza are fighting in forms weaker than the pre spirit bomb is takes away the feeling of this being the greatest battle they had up to that point.

The epicness of the battle remains intact because this is not emphathised. Injuries make you weaker unless you have unlimited strength, that's true for the whole series, but the extent of Freezer's injuries can't be determined until much later in the story.
Furthermore, the 50->100% thing (even if they were much weaker 50% and 100%) plus Namek destruction being imminent still ramped up the tension even more.

If Frieza is less than 100% Toriyama would have told us that.There would be some mention that the Spirit Bomb stop Frieza from hitting his true maximum power.

But the thing is, this is actually mentionted (just not with a great emphasis).
The first thing Freeza says after comming back alive from the Genkidama is:
"I'm badly injured, but I can still kill you all". This sentence alone already implies that he has been weakened.
Then, after defeating SSJ Goku's KameHame, he says "I better leave the planet before it explodes. If I'm stuck in the explosion, I'll lose EVEN MORE power".

I mean, no, Toriyama isn't stupid enough to break the epicness of the battle by telling you 30 times that Freezer is weakened after the Genkidama, but every single fight in DB following that rule -the more injured you are, the more weakened you get- and those comments from Freezer surely leave no doubt of what happened.
Furthermore, you're telling me that I'm not understanding what the story told us... when you are the one contradicting Toriyama?
Toriyama said that he drew that scene with a power up for Goku in the ballpark of 10x, not the 50x the guides wrongly stated.

Frieza doesn't start getting weaker till Goku mentions he's lost power. We have no reason to think Goku's ssj power didn't surpass anything he did before and no reason to think Frieza didn't hit 100% of his power.

Freezer starts getting weaker as soon as he reaches peak power, but that's a stamina power and has nothing to do with the other unavoidable fact: an injured fighter weaker in DB, and Freezer was BADLY INJURED (his words) by the Genkidama.
Freezer not losing strength because the story feels more epic to you is the actual definition of head canon, because the canon in he series for every single fight is the opposite

Regards!

[Hugo Boss]

It requires quite a leap in logic to assume 100% is not 100%. People in this forum have countless times explained to you, since you had the @freezamite account, that you got the wrong idea from Toriyama’s interview.

[miguelnuva1]

You're ignoring how stories build up tension now and what the story is telling us just to defend you own head canon now.

Toriyama usually designed combat scenarios that defied the usual rules of how stories are built.
In the Nappa vs Goku fight the overall purpose of Nappa was to demonstrate how strong the saiyans were in comparison to the Z warriors (who all had powered up, at least, to Radiz levels of power) and then how strong Goku was after training with Kaito.
According to your way of thinking, Nappa should be stronger than the z-warriors (which he was) but also weaker than Goku (which he clearly wasn't).
Another example would be Vegeta vs A18, in this case designing a fight that made A18 seem much more intimidating than she would have been if the fight had gone, with the exact sama ideas, in a different way.

If Goku and Frieza are fighting in forms weaker than the pre spirit bomb is takes away the feeling of this being the greatest battle they had up to that point.

The epicness of the battle remains intact because this is not emphathised. Injuries make you weaker unless you have unlimited strength, that's true for the whole series, but the extent of Freezer's injuries can't be determined until much later in the story.
Furthermore, the 50->100% thing (even if they were much weaker 50% and 100%) plus Namek destruction being imminent still ramped up the tension even more.

If Frieza is less than 100% Toriyama would have told us that.There would be some mention that the Spirit Bomb stop Frieza from hitting his true maximum power.

But the thing is, this is actually mentionted (just not with a great emphasis).
The first thing Freeza says after comming back alive from the Genkidama is:
"I'm badly injured, but I can still kill you all". This sentence alone already implies that he has been weakened.
Then, after defeating SSJ Goku's KameHame, he says "I better leave the planet before it explodes. If I'm stuck in the explosion, I'll lose EVEN MORE power".

I mean, no, Toriyama isn't stupid enough to break the epicness of the battle by telling you 30 times that Freezer is weakened after the Genkidama, but every single fight in DB following that rule -the more injured you are, the more weakened you get- and those comments from Freezer surely leave no doubt of what happened.
Furthermore, you're telling me that I'm not understanding what the story told us... when you are the one contradicting Toriyama?
Toriyama said that he drew that scene with a power up for Goku in the ballpark of 10x, not the 50x the guides wrongly stated.

Frieza doesn't start getting weaker till Goku mentions he's lost power. We have no reason to think Goku's ssj power didn't surpass anything he did before and no reason to think Frieza didn't hit 100% of his power.

Freezer starts getting weaker as soon as he reaches peak power, but that's a stamina power and has nothing to do with the other unavoidable fact: an injured fighter weaker in DB, and Freezer was BADLY INJURED (his words) by the Genkidama.
Freezer not losing strength because the story feels more epic to you is the actual definition of head canon, because the canon in he series for every single fight is the opposite

Regards!

Point 1: Nappa is weaker than Goku, Goku was smacking him around and then used the Kaio Ken. Vegeta and Goku both say Nappa would have lost to Goku. Going further Goku is 8,000+ and Nappa is 4,000. Android 18 was used for two reasons to show that the current Andorids were stronger than Trunks thought which means beat a SSJ and to show that Vegeta had powered up as well. Vegeta shocks Trunks with how strong he is then 18 turns it up proving that the warring from the Future holds.

Point 2: Injuries only make you weaker when your already at full power. Cell after fighting Goku had more power in reserve, Gohan after getting his arm broke had power in reserve and Vegeta with a broken arm lasted longer than Trunks against the Androids. Goku blowing his body up with the KaioKen didn't lose power to after Vegeta crushed him.

Point 3: As said before you can be hurt in Dragonball without your power being effected. As for Frieza another thing is when he comes back as Mecha Frieza he doesn't mention that he has he healthy full power back he says he's powered up. It would have been mentioned if Goku and Frieza weren't 100% all out and if they weren't then Toriyama is a bad story teller which he isn't. Also Toriyama said he drew SSJ Goku is 10x what Goku had been up to that point could mean a couple things. Is he saying 10x based or 10x Goku with his Kaioken.

If Toriyama wanted SSJ to be 10x he would have mentioned in several times in the series, all he is saying is to him 50x is a big number. And finally sense Toriyama doesn't like using numbers anyway a Goku who was 10x stronger to him could still have a 50x increase in power level.

Point 3: Frieza starts getting weaker after the Nova strike as that's when the Battle starts to become one sided. Goku then mentions that it's dropped too much for the fight to be interesting. Frieza doesn't start losing power becasue the Author never mentions it. Toriyama always mentioned when someone wasn't at full power so why not with Frieza? He has shown us that someone can be hurt and still power up.

[MechaTrunks]

It requires quite a leap in logic to assume 100% is not 100%. People in this forum have countless times explained to you, since you had the @freezamite account, that you got the wrong idea from Toriyama’s interview.

Wow, are you aware that this "leap of logic" is directly stated by the manga?
Let's set the Genkidama injuries aside and assume that 100% is 100%, how the hell do you explain Goku retiring from the fight because Freezer's power fell too much if Freezer clearly was till using the 100% of his power?
His 100% when he started to fight Goku was much stronger than his 100% when Goku retired, but suddenly his 100% after the Genkidama can't be weaker despited that being the case for every other single fighter in the series that doesn't have unlimited energy?
100% is not A QUANTITY, it's a fraction of something (in this case, the full something or it's entirety). If that something becomes lower, the 100% of it will also become lower as it was cleary seen in the Freezer vs SSJ Goku fight!

Your "logic" contradicts the direct statements of the manga.

Regarding that freezamite, I'm MechaTrunks, and I seriously doubt I got the wrong idea when Toriyama's words are crystal clear: that scene was drawn with a 10x power up on mind for SSJ Goku.
You can try to argue why Toriyama is wrong but contradicting the manga is not the way to do it.

Point 1: Nappa is weaker than Goku, Goku was smacking him around and then used the Kaio Ken. Vegeta and Goku both say Nappa would have lost to Goku. Going further Goku is 8,000+ and Nappa is 4,000.
Android 18 was used for two reasons to show that the current Andorids were stronger than Trunks thought which means beat a SSJ and to show that Vegeta had powered up as well. Vegeta shocks Trunks with how strong he is then 18 turns it up proving that the warring from the Future holds.

If Nappa is just 4000, how the hell does he matches Goku's speed and physical strength, and tanks his kamehame ha without taking severe damage?
With that stance you are contradicting basically any other fight seen in the series! How can someone with 4000 fight someone with a strength of 8000+ in equal terms?
I'm glad we at least agree on the A18 vs SSJ Vegeta fight. Yes, it's purpose was to show us all of this, but how many people think A18 was much stronger than SSJ Vegeta in terms of brute strength just because the fight is portrayed in a way that clearly favours the android looking cool?
Toriyama's scenarios are never black or white, and that's the best part of Dragon Ball.

Point 2: Injuries only make you weaker when your already at full power. Cell after fighting Goku had more power in reserve, Gohan after getting his arm broke had power in reserve and Vegeta with a broken arm lasted longer than Trunks against the Androids. Goku blowing his body up with the KaioKen didn't lose power to after Vegeta crushed him.

WHAT? Nopes! I mean, let's use your own examples:
1. Goku gave Cell a senzu bean because, even if Cell never fought Goku with his maximum strength, he had lost a lot of energy!
Heck, Cell even gets surprised at how good the senzu bean are and it's very apparent that he recovers his strength!
2. The first thing Piccolo says after Gohan gets his arm broke is that his power has fallen to HALF what it was. Yes, he then still had some energy in reserve, but that was MUCH LESS than if he didn't had that injury. He only could kill Cell because Vegeta distracted him while he was playing with Gohan.
3. SSJ Vegeta in the A18 fight is a bad example because he was going all out, so even if it were true that he didn't lose power (which is false, the whole fight revolves around Vegeta losing against the android because he's getting weaker and the android isn't) that wouldn't be an example of what you say.
4. Goku blowing and Vegeta what? In the Goku vs Vegeta fight any KK above 2x weakened Goku much more than he could weaken Vegeta while using it.
After the KKx3 Goku is clearly trembling and the next time he fights Vegeta, he needs the KKx4 to surpass him (and that's besides the damage Vegeta took from KKx3 Goku).
After the KKx4 Goku's power is so depleted that even Yajirobee harms him with a pat on the back. Are you sure we're reading the same manga?

I'll put you some more examples of what I'm saying:
1. In the SSJ2 Goku vs SSJ2 Majin Vegeta fight, both fighters lost so much energy that Majin Bu could resurrect at maximum strength when they fought. How was that possible if according to you Goku shouldn't have lost even an ounce of strength because he still had the SSJ3 in reserve?
2. While Zarbon was confidently fighting Vegeta, he threw sand in his eye and sucker punched him. When Zarbon got serious he was so weakened after Vegeta's dirty attack that he miserably lost.
3. Raditz was literally playing with Goku and Piccolo, yet Gohan's headbutt left him completely destroyed and with a fraction of his power.

Point 3: As said before you can be hurt in Dragonball without your power being effected.

You haven't been able to prove this successfully. In every one of the examples you put, a clear statement about the fighter having lost energy is made.

As for Frieza another thing is when he comes back as Mecha Frieza he doesn't mention that he has he healthy full power back he says he's powered up.

Which is completely logic from his POW: The only aspect he could easily check (his stamina) got a huge boost. Namek Freezer needed to be in his most weakened form to not tire himself unecessarily, and in his Mecha form not only he could stay in his final form but also at a constant max power.
The reason Freezer lost against SSJ Goku (besides the Genkidama) was his lack of stamina, so of course he would considere losing that handicap a big advantage compared to Namek.
Problem is, he was much weaker and unless he trained with this father (which he clearly didn't do) he didn't have a mean to know it.

It would have been mentioned if Goku and Frieza weren't 100% all out and if they weren't then Toriyama is a bad story teller which he isn't.

In fact it's the opposite. Toriyama is such a good story teller because he TELLS you everything but it does it subtly enough that it doesn't break the epicness of the scene.
Freezer clearly mentions that he lost power in Namek at least twice, every single character that receives injuries loses strength which is something that also aplies to Cell, an improved clone of Freezer.
Freezer was clearly not an exception to the rule.

Also Toriyama said he drew SSJ Goku is 10x what Goku had been up to that point could mean a couple things. Is he saying 10x based or 10x Goku with his Kaioken.

He says Goku was not 50x, but 10x what it was at the time. If the 50x is speaking of his base state, the 10x also has to be the same thing.
Furthermore, 10 times his KKx20 would be a 200x, which would be like what, 5 times 100% uninjured Freezer?
And the KK was a technique, not Goku's own power.

If Toriyama wanted SSJ to be 10x he would have mentioned in several times in the series, all he is saying is to him 50x is a big number. And finally sense Toriyama doesn't like using numbers anyway a Goku who was 10x stronger to him could still have a 50x increase in power level.

What? Toriyama never mentions any multiplier for any single SSJ form. Why can the SSJ be a 50x when it makes no sense and it's never stated in the manga even once that the multiplier was a 50x, but then it can't be a 10x when it's coherent with the rest of the series (injuries make you lose strenght, as I've proved) and it's what the author is telling you?
And no, a 10x can't be a 50x because he clearly adresses the 50x multiplier saying that it wasn't 50x.
I mean, how can you spin Toriyama's words from "50x was too high, I drew those scenes with a 10x multiplier on mind" into "50x was too high, I drew those scenes with a 10x multiplier on mind that is actually a 50x because I'm not using numbers anymore"?

I understand that you would like the series more if it was like in your headcanon, but it would be a much worse series than it currently is, believe me.

Regards!

[Hugo Boss]

Let's set the Genkidama injuries aside and assume that 100% is 100%, how the hell do you explain Goku retiring from the fight because Freezer's power fell too much if Freezer clearly was till using the 100% of his power?
His 100% when he started to fight Goku was much stronger than his 100% when Goku retired, but suddenly his 100% after the Genkidama can't be weaker despited that being the case for every other single fighter in the series that doesn't have unlimited energy?
100% is not A QUANTITY, it's a fraction of something (in this case, the full something or it's entirety). If that something becomes lower, the 100% of it will also become lower as it was cleary seen in the Freezer vs SSJ Goku fight!

Your "logic" contradicts the direct statements of the manga.

Regarding that freezamite, I'm MechaTrunks, and I seriously doubt I got the wrong idea when Toriyama's words are crystal clear: that scene was drawn with a 10x power up on mind for SSJ Goku.
You can try to argue why Toriyama is wrong but contradicting the manga is not the way to do it.

<SNIP>

Goku lost the interest in fighting because Freeza couldn’t use 100% of his power anymore. It’s quite simple to explain. The genkidama makes him weaker, then he reaches his full power, then he gets weaker again.

Toriyama just admitted his feeling as he drew Super Saiyan. In the beginning of his sentence he makes very clear that the 50-fold multiplier is what was considered the official. Specially after kaioken x20 wasn’t enough to beat Freeza. 40-fold was the minimal.

By the way, you are quoting the wrong person.

[MechaTrunks]

Goku lost the interest in fighting because Freeza couldn’t use 100% of his power anymore. It’s quite simple to explain. The genkidama makes him weaker, then he reaches his full power, then he gets weaker again.

He was still using the 100% of the power he had at that moment, which was lower because of his lack of stamina. Look, Freezer's body was as buffed up as when he reached 100% because he was still going all out, it's simply that Freezer was weaker at that point.
Your explanation contradicts any other instance in the series of a character not fighting with all his strenght and still getting badly injured and losing the fight (Goku gave Cell a senzu bean for a reason).

Freezer was using 50% of his MAX power before and after the Genkidama, regardless of the energy he still had left. Your stance makes no sense from the same moment that you acknowledge that Freezer got weakened by the Genkidama but was still using his 50%. If Freezer's % were in relation to his absolute strength and not the strength he had at that moment (which makes no sense, not even the characters that can sense Ki can determine how much energy they have lost without testing it), after getting weakened by the Genkidama he should've started from 25% or 30% again and increase from there.
But Freezer goes from 50% to 70% instead, and that's because he was already at 50% and he remained at 50% even after getting weaker, and of course, the same applies to 100% or any other % of strength.

Toriyama just admitted his feeling as he drew Super Saiyan. In the beginning of his sentence he makes very clear that the 50-fold multiplier is what was considered the official. Specially after kaioken x20 wasn’t enough to beat Freeza. 40-fold was the minimal.

Toriyama is the author of the series, he thought a lot of people misunderstood that scene and he addressed it in an interview that didn't even ask about the power of the SSJ.
40-fold just ignores the basic premise of a fighter losing strength when injured, which is always a focus of the series (at least for Toriyama and from DBZ onwards) and that the % reasoning you're trying doesn't negate in any case.

By the way, you are quoting the wrong person.

True! I hope I can still edit it!

EDIT: Nopes, too late! U_U

Regards!

[ankokudaishogun]

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Goku lost the interest in fighting because Freeza couldn’t use 100% of his power anymore. It’s quite simple to explain. The genkidama makes him weaker, then he reaches his full power, then he gets weaker again.

Being wounded made him unable to stay full power for longer. A fresh Freezer might have had some minutes more of battle in him