Top 30 (anime only)

[zekken1]

You can only have it one way either Kefla is stronger than SSBK Goku or she isn't. And if she is she is thus automartically stronger than SSBE Vegeta and Destroyer Toppo.

Emotional weight and stuff doesn't matter, the statements have been made.

And frankly Kefla>SSBK Goku due to beating him as LSS1 and could always power up, so Goku being tired is really muted there. End of discussion.

[Koitsukai]

You can only have it one way either Kefla is stronger than SSBK Goku or she isn't. And if she is she is thus automartically stronger than SSBE Vegeta and Destroyer Toppo.

Emotional weight and stuff doesn't matter, the statements have been made.

And frankly Kefla>SSBK Goku due to beating him as LSS1 and could always power up, so Goku being tired is really muted there. End of discussion.

The first thing would be to admit Goku was using SSBKK with low stamina thus not being at his best and sort of a glass cannon considering he could really hurt Kefla and still go down with one blow. Not enough stamina to use Kaioken, Beerus stated as much so probably not as mute as you claim it to be.

The second thing would also be to admit that KKx20 >>>> KK, Kefla fought the latter, Toppo was casually disposing the former. Well, the equivalent of a better-rested-10-episodes-later SSBKKx20 really. Then a boosted-SSBE owned him.

And the most important thing would be that Hakaishin Toppo was never stated to be equal to SSBKKx20 Goku, you are claiming that he is equal to regular SSBKK. That might be true only for base Toppo. If someone beats SSBKKx20 (Kefla did not) doesn't mean they could do that to Toppo, and even less so someone that beats SSBKK Goku. He actually trashed the initial SSBE therefore he can also do the same to a much stronger(and rested) version than the one Kefla fought.

Kefla's feats are defeating a tired SSBKK Goku who was stated by Beerus to not be ready yet to use that kind of power and was an all-or-nothing bet, and not being even close to Omen Goku.
So beating a tired guy that could not even using his greatest form and after powering up doing nothing to a character that is closing in or already is hakaishin tier is not enough to say she can defeat a hakaishin and the guy that took down said hakaishin.

[BagetaSama]

It's a pretty good list. There is some thought put into it.
One main remark/question: why would Merged Zamasu have been that much weaker than Blue Vegito?

In the manga he felt way more superior. In the anime it felt like Merged Zamasu could actually somehow keep up.
If you'd take into account Black Goku was on Blue-level and Future Zamasu was almost on pair with Blue, it should make sense for Merged Zamasu to be weaker, but not by that amount IMO.

I mean there's actually a sequence in the anime where, Vegetto does a power-up sequence where they zoom out and his aura gets larger and white lightning surrounds him, I would imagine this is to suggest that he is going full-power. After that scene, Vegetto dominates the fight in the anime too

You can only have it one way either Kefla is stronger than SSBK Goku or she isn't. And if she is she is thus automartically stronger than SSBE Vegeta and Destroyer Toppo.

Emotional weight and stuff doesn't matter, the statements have been made.

And frankly Kefla>SSBK Goku due to beating him as LSS1 and could always power up, so Goku being tired is really muted there. End of discussion.

It's reasonable to believe that Kefla is stronger than the SSBKK that Goku had used against her, but still be weaker than her once he experiences growth later in the tournament. Jiren, by the time he powers up in 123, is stronger than anybody that Goku had ever faced, and he could compete with that to some extent, alongside Vegeta, in SSBKKx20.

And no, even if she was stronger than SSBKKx20 Goku, she would not "automatically" be stronger than GoD Toppo and SSBE Vegeta. It goes:

initial SSBE Vegeta=SSBKKx20 Goku<GoD Toppo<final SSBE Vegeta

that was made extremely clear. I think the "growth" in the tournament is sort of iffy, and it only became necessary when you realize that SSB Gogeta is dramatically stronger than FT arc SSB Vegetto, which means that their growth is really the only explanation for this discrepancy. So, I currently lean in the way of huge growth during the ToP, and it goes like this:

SSBKKx20 Goku<1st Omen Goku<123 SSB Goku<SSJ2 Kefla<<123 SSBKKx20 Goku=initial SSBE Vegeta<GoD Toppo<Final SSBE Vegeta

[SupremeKai25]

It's a pretty good list. There is some thought put into it.
One main remark/question: why would Merged Zamasu have been that much weaker than Blue Vegito?

In the manga he felt way more superior. In the anime it felt like Merged Zamasu could actually somehow keep up.
If you'd take into account Black Goku was on Blue-level and Future Zamasu was almost on pair with Blue, it should make sense for Merged Zamasu to be weaker, but not by that amount IMO.

I mean there's actually a sequence in the anime where, Vegetto does a power-up sequence where they zoom out and his aura gets larger and white lightning surrounds him, I would imagine this is to suggest that he is going full-power. After that scene, Vegetto dominates the fight in the anime too

He doesn't. He is shown in a stalemate with Fused Zamasu, needs to dodge some of his attacks, is pushed back by one of his ki blasts, and is overpowered at one point.

[BagetaSama]

It's a pretty good list. There is some thought put into it.
One main remark/question: why would Merged Zamasu have been that much weaker than Blue Vegito?

In the manga he felt way more superior. In the anime it felt like Merged Zamasu could actually somehow keep up.
If you'd take into account Black Goku was on Blue-level and Future Zamasu was almost on pair with Blue, it should make sense for Merged Zamasu to be weaker, but not by that amount IMO.

I mean there's actually a sequence in the anime where, Vegetto does a power-up sequence where they zoom out and his aura gets larger and white lightning surrounds him, I would imagine this is to suggest that he is going full-power. After that scene, Vegetto dominates the fight in the anime too

He doesn't. He is shown in a stalemate with Fused Zamasu, needs to dodge some of his attacks, is pushed back by one of his ki blasts, and is overpowered at one point.

Not after the aforementioned Power-up sequence by Vegetto. He never gets overpowered, the best Zamasu does is he clashes with a fist attack at first. Vegetto still punched him into the building and was mostly dominating.

[ZombieVito]

I mean there's actually a sequence in the anime where, Vegetto does a power-up sequence where they zoom out and his aura gets larger and white lightning surrounds him, I would imagine this is to suggest that he is going full-power. After that scene, Vegetto dominates the fight in the anime too

He doesn't. He is shown in a stalemate with Fused Zamasu, needs to dodge some of his attacks, is pushed back by one of his ki blasts, and is overpowered at one point.

Not after the aforementioned Power-up sequence by Vegetto. He never gets overpowered, the best Zamasu does is he clashes with a fist attack at first. Vegetto still punched him into the building and was mostly dominating.

But Zamasu is losing because he's slow. Vegetto even alludes to it.

[SupremeKai25]

I mean there's actually a sequence in the anime where, Vegetto does a power-up sequence where they zoom out and his aura gets larger and white lightning surrounds him, I would imagine this is to suggest that he is going full-power. After that scene, Vegetto dominates the fight in the anime too

He doesn't. He is shown in a stalemate with Fused Zamasu, needs to dodge some of his attacks, is pushed back by one of his ki blasts, and is overpowered at one point.

Not after the aforementioned Power-up sequence by Vegetto. He never gets overpowered, the best Zamasu does is he clashes with a fist attack at first. Vegetto still punched him into the building and was mostly dominating.

I thought you were referring to his first power-up to SSB, which had a massive aura and lightnings surrounding it.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Even after his second power-up, Vegito still wasn't dominating Fused Zamasu. Right after he powered-up, they were still shown locked in a stalemate. Vegito was exploiting Zamasu's massive size to keep him on the defensive, and managed to hit him once or twice, but he still had to dodge his powerful ki blade and his two strongest attacks had no effect on him. So he wasn't dominating him, so much so that he was visibly stressed by Zamasu's tenacity.

[BagetaSama]

He doesn't. He is shown in a stalemate with Fused Zamasu, needs to dodge some of his attacks, is pushed back by one of his ki blasts, and is overpowered at one point.

Not after the aforementioned Power-up sequence by Vegetto. He never gets overpowered, the best Zamasu does is he clashes with a fist attack at first. Vegetto still punched him into the building and was mostly dominating.

But Zamasu is losing because he's slow. Vegetto even alludes to it.

No he doesn't. He just talks about being faster, which he is, upon releasing his full-power.

[SupremeKai25]

Not after the aforementioned Power-up sequence by Vegetto. He never gets overpowered, the best Zamasu does is he clashes with a fist attack at first. Vegetto still punched him into the building and was mostly dominating.

But Zamasu is losing because he's slow. Vegetto even alludes to it.

No he doesn't. He just talks about being faster, which he is, upon releasing his full-power.

Yes he does. He plainly tells Zamasu that he can't keep up with him due to that body seeped in all that rage, and that's after Zamasu considerably bulks up.

[ZombieVito]

No he doesn't. He just talks about being faster, which he is, upon releasing his full-power.

Vegetto especially says Zamasu can't keep up with his speed.

[BagetaSama]

No he doesn't. He just talks about being faster, which he is, upon releasing his full-power.

Vegetto especially says Zamasu can't keep up with his speed.

....AKA he says that he is faster. This does not mean Zamasu got slower. Even if he did, Vegetto is much stronger, so if MZ lost speed in favor of strength and was STILL weaker, it shows how big the gap is.

[SupremeKai25]

No he doesn't. He just talks about being faster, which he is, upon releasing his full-power.

Vegetto especially says Zamasu can't keep up with his speed.

....AKA he says that he is faster. This does not mean Zamasu got slower. Even if he did, Vegetto is much stronger, so if MZ lost speed in favor of strength and was STILL weaker, it shows how big the gap is.

Zamasu literally bulked himself up, already in the Cell arc that was acknowledged as a mistake, because even if it increased your power, it also made you much slower. Trunks did that, Perfect Cell did that, Zamasu did that, they all got power, and they were all much slower. You can tell that Zamasu was still incredibly strong because, right after bulkying up, he was still shown in a stalemate with Vegito and Vegito had to carefully dodge his ki blade.

[zekken1]

It's a pretty good list. There is some thought put into it.
One main remark/question: why would Merged Zamasu have been that much weaker than Blue Vegito?

In the manga he felt way more superior. In the anime it felt like Merged Zamasu could actually somehow keep up.
If you'd take into account Black Goku was on Blue-level and Future Zamasu was almost on pair with Blue, it should make sense for Merged Zamasu to be weaker, but not by that amount IMO.

I mean there's actually a sequence in the anime where, Vegetto does a power-up sequence where they zoom out and his aura gets larger and white lightning surrounds him, I would imagine this is to suggest that he is going full-power. After that scene, Vegetto dominates the fight in the anime too

You can only have it one way either Kefla is stronger than SSBK Goku or she isn't. And if she is she is thus automartically stronger than SSBE Vegeta and Destroyer Toppo.

Emotional weight and stuff doesn't matter, the statements have been made.

And frankly Kefla>SSBK Goku due to beating him as LSS1 and could always power up, so Goku being tired is really muted there. End of discussion.

It's reasonable to believe that Kefla is stronger than the SSBKK that Goku had used against her, but still be weaker than her once he experiences growth later in the tournament. Jiren, by the time he powers up in 123, is stronger than anybody that Goku had ever faced, and he could compete with that to some extent, alongside Vegeta, in SSBKKx20.

And no, even if she was stronger than SSBKKx20 Goku, she would not "automatically" be stronger than GoD Toppo and SSBE Vegeta. It goes:

initial SSBE Vegeta=SSBKKx20 Goku<GoD Toppo<final SSBE Vegeta

that was made extremely clear. I think the "growth" in the tournament is sort of iffy, and it only became necessary when you realize that SSB Gogeta is dramatically stronger than FT arc SSB Vegetto, which means that their growth is really the only explanation for this discrepancy. So, I currently lean in the way of huge growth during the ToP, and it goes like this:

SSBKKx20 Goku<1st Omen Goku<123 SSB Goku<SSJ2 Kefla<<123 SSBKKx20 Goku=initial SSBE Vegeta<GoD Toppo<Final SSBE Vegeta

Oh wow didn't know i got replies so fast, saw them now recently.

Back to topic, The director stated that SSBE Vegeta was around the same as SSBK Goku, and this was after DBS ended. So it goes like this Final SSBE Vegeta=SSBK Goku. Your interpretation is therefore wrong seeing as the director didn'y use terms as final SSBE Vegeta and such. Yours, while correct during the time, is basically headcanon now.

And mind you when I say SSBK Goku it means all iterations of it, normal and x20. And seeing as Goku himself first went SSBK x20 without stating so what makes you think he wasn't always SSBK x20 for the rest of the tournament. It would be kinda tedious if he had to shout it every time. And how would it make sense for him to fight Jiren the second time around and not use SSBK x20? And seeing as how even the director didn't specifically differentiate between SSBK and SSBK x20, we can assume he was using kaioken to the fullest for the rest of the tournament.

[zekken1]

You can only have it one way either Kefla is stronger than SSBK Goku or she isn't. And if she is she is thus automartically stronger than SSBE Vegeta and Destroyer Toppo.

Emotional weight and stuff doesn't matter, the statements have been made.

And frankly Kefla>SSBK Goku due to beating him as LSS1 and could always power up, so Goku being tired is really muted there. End of discussion.

The first thing would be to admit Goku was using SSBKK with low stamina thus not being at his best and sort of a glass cannon considering he could really hurt Kefla and still go down with one blow. Not enough stamina to use Kaioken, Beerus stated as much so probably not as mute as you claim it to be.

The second thing would also be to admit that KKx20 >>>> KK, Kefla fought the latter, Toppo was casually disposing the former. Well, the equivalent of a better-rested-10-episodes-later SSBKKx20 really. Then a boosted-SSBE owned him.

And the most important thing would be that Hakaishin Toppo was never stated to be equal to SSBKKx20 Goku, you are claiming that he is equal to regular SSBKK. That might be true only for base Toppo. If someone beats SSBKKx20 (Kefla did not) doesn't mean they could do that to Toppo, and even less so someone that beats SSBKK Goku. He actually trashed the initial SSBE therefore he can also do the same to a much stronger(and rested) version than the one Kefla fought.

Kefla's feats are defeating a tired SSBKK Goku who was stated by Beerus to not be ready yet to use that kind of power and was an all-or-nothing bet, and not being even close to Omen Goku.
So beating a tired guy that could not even using his greatest form and after powering up doing nothing to a character that is closing in or already is hakaishin tier is not enough to say she can defeat a hakaishin and the guy that took down said hakaishin.

Seeing as Goku himself first went SSBK x20 without stating so what makes you think he wasn't always SSBK x20 for the rest of the tournament. It would be kinda tedious if he had to shout it every time. And how would it make sense for him to fight Jiren the second time around and not use SSBK x20? And seeing as how even the director didn't specifically differentiate between SSBK and SSBK x20, we can assume he was using kaioken to the fullest for the rest of the tournament.

And the director clearly stated after DBS ended that SSBE Vegeta=SSBK Goku, that means that SSBE Vegeta at his fullest is around the same as SSBK Goku since this statement was made after the end of DBS. Therefore SSBK is automatically stronger than Destroyer Toppo, since SSBE Vegeta beat him. You cannot get around this fact, doing so would be delirious of you.

And furthermore your glass cannon argument is just plain wrong. In the fight against Hit in the Tournament of Destroyers oku himself said that Kaioken boosts every trait his uses in a fight. THAT INCLUDES DEFENSE
Goku being tired means that he couldn't sustain the kaikoen boost for long, but saying he only gains attack boost and not defense is just ridiculous and that's not how Kaioken works. And when Kefla hit him he was in SSBK having boosted every trait.

[Koitsukai]

Seeing as Goku himself first went SSBK x20 without stating so what makes you think he wasn't always SSBK x20 for the rest of the tournament. It would be kinda tedious if he had to shout it every time. And how would it make sense for him to fight Jiren the second time around and not use SSBK x20? And seeing as how even the director didn't specifically differentiate between SSBK and SSBK x20, we can assume he was using kaioken to the fullest for the rest of the tournament.

It wasn't stated by Goku but implied with how he got up and turned it on again with a much more confident attitude and a failed catchphrase. Also it was explained by the peanut gallery, so Goku's statement is replaced by theirs, which helped explain if it was x10 or x20.

What makes me think he didn't use it against Kefla is he wasn't even ready for SS3 moments ago, and Beerus was already saying he wasn't ready yet to use kaioken, not KKx20 or his full power, his body wasn't ready, it'd make no sense. He shouldn't even be using SSB(implied by his friends and Champa), so if he would've been KKx20 that would've been stated one way or the other like before. Also the fight was not going that bad to need a 20x boost, she wasn't Jiren.
So vs KKx20 vs Jiren was stated by Whis and later by Beerus.
Vs Kefla it was stated he is not ready for the technique, so most likely he was using a lower version because he apparently wasn't quite ready for SSB either.

And the director clearly stated after DBS ended that SSBE Vegeta=SSBK Goku, that means that SSBE Vegeta at his fullest is around the same as SSBK Goku since this statement was made after the end of DBS. Therefore SSBK is automatically stronger than Destroyer Toppo, since SSBE Vegeta beat him. You cannot get around this fact, doing so would be delirious of you.

Nope, Goku and Vegeta were performing evenly against Jiren. If Vegeta was 20x weaker than Goku, Jiren would've discarded him with ease while Goku would've lasted a little longer. Vegeta would've been trash to Jiren and only able to watch or be as useful as 17 was in 131. None of that happened, both worked great together, neither of them looked like the weak link with Vegeta actually delivering the ultimate attacks. And Goku, stated by Beerus, was going all out although no numbers. So recap: initial SSBE matches Goku's full power (that is KKx20), Toppo shows up and destroys SSBE (would do the same to KKx20) and Final SSBE stomps Toppo.

It is crazy to say Hakaishin Toppo is even with SSBKK20 Goku or that Goku could beat Golden Freeza that easy. Hakaishin form being a 20x boost sounds too little. Goku would be hakaishin tier already and he was not.

And furthermore your glass cannon argument is just plain wrong. In the fight against Hit in the Tournament of Destroyers oku himself said that Kaioken boosts every trait his uses in a fight. THAT INCLUDES DEFENSE
Goku being tired means that he couldn't sustain the kaikoen boost for long, but saying he only gains attack boost and not defense is just ridiculous and that's not how Kaioken works. And when Kefla hit him he was in SSBK having boosted every trait.

Oh it wasn't my argument, it was Beerus's. He said that Goku had one shot with that form. The only thing I added was the term, but the idea remains and was stated by the show. And I never said anything about Goku's defense, only that he went down with one blow while being able to hurt her, which was how things happened, he couldn't even take one hit without losing it.

[zekken1]

Seeing as Goku himself first went SSBK x20 without stating so what makes you think he wasn't always SSBK x20 for the rest of the tournament. It would be kinda tedious if he had to shout it every time. And how would it make sense for him to fight Jiren the second time around and not use SSBK x20? And seeing as how even the director didn't specifically differentiate between SSBK and SSBK x20, we can assume he was using kaioken to the fullest for the rest of the tournament.

It wasn't stated by Goku but implied with how he got up and turned it on again with a much more confident attitude and a failed catchphrase. Also it was explained by the peanut gallery, so Goku's statement is replaced by theirs, which helped explain if it was x10 or x20.

What makes me think he didn't use it against Kefla is he wasn't even ready for SS3 moments ago, and Beerus was already saying he wasn't ready yet to use kaioken, not KKx20 or his full power, his body wasn't ready, it'd make no sense. He shouldn't even be using SSB(implied by his friends and Champa), so if he would've been KKx20 that would've been stated one way or the other like before. Also the fight was not going that bad to need a 20x boost, she wasn't Jiren.
So vs KKx20 vs Jiren was stated by Whis and later by Beerus.
Vs Kefla it was stated he is not ready for the technique, so most likely he was using a lower version because he apparently wasn't quite ready for SSB either.

And the director clearly stated after DBS ended that SSBE Vegeta=SSBK Goku, that means that SSBE Vegeta at his fullest is around the same as SSBK Goku since this statement was made after the end of DBS. Therefore SSBK is automatically stronger than Destroyer Toppo, since SSBE Vegeta beat him. You cannot get around this fact, doing so would be delirious of you.

Nope, Goku and Vegeta were performing evenly against Jiren. If Vegeta was 20x weaker than Goku, Jiren would've discarded him with ease while Goku would've lasted a little longer. Vegeta would've been trash to Jiren and only able to watch or be as useful as 17 was in 131. None of that happened, both worked great together, neither of them looked like the weak link with Vegeta actually delivering the ultimate attacks. And Goku, stated by Beerus, was going all out although no numbers. So recap: initial SSBE matches Goku's full power (that is KKx20), Toppo shows up and destroys SSBE (would do the same to KKx20) and Final SSBE stomps Toppo.

It is crazy to say Hakaishin Toppo is even with SSBKK20 Goku or that Goku could beat Golden Freeza that easy. Hakaishin form being a 20x boost sounds too little. Goku would be hakaishin tier already and he was not.

And furthermore your glass cannon argument is just plain wrong. In the fight against Hit in the Tournament of Destroyers oku himself said that Kaioken boosts every trait his uses in a fight. THAT INCLUDES DEFENSE
Goku being tired means that he couldn't sustain the kaikoen boost for long, but saying he only gains attack boost and not defense is just ridiculous and that's not how Kaioken works. And when Kefla hit him he was in SSBK having boosted every trait.

Oh it wasn't my argument, it was Beerus's. He said that Goku had one shot with that form. The only thing I added was the term, but the idea remains and was stated by the show. And I never said anything about Goku's defense, only that he went down with one blow while being able to hurt her, which was how things happened, he couldn't even take one hit without losing it.

Even so when she kicked him he was still SSBK. Also after the first bout against Jiren Goku never stated the Kaioken multiplier for the rest of the tournament. And with the director not mentioning any multiplier we can assume he uses it to the fullest for the rest of the tournament. Honestly your assumption because he was tired, while sensible, is mostly just headcanon now.

At this point it is either your argument that Final Explosion SSBE Vegeta> SSBK Goku or the director which just plainly said after DBS ended that SSBE Vegeta= SSBK Goku.... Needless to say I'll go with the DIRECTOR


And also don't overstate the power of Destroyer Toppo, him being the level of let's say SSBK x15 Goku isn't bad. Don't forget even Goku and Vegeta as SSB's has top tier power levels in DBS. Goku even did hakai in the DBS manga. And the hakaishin tier you mention don't lump Toppo so high Beerus himself stated that it even took time for Toppo to charge up his hakai attacks, and yes Goku SSBK was hakaishin tier since he was stated to be equal to SSBE Vegeta(who also is hakaishin tier). So Destroyer Toppo is weaker than SSBKx20 Goku. Don't complain to me all this is OFFICIALY STATED

And as for Kefla's power level if you won't accept her LSS1 power level then take LSS2:
There, LSS2 Kefla>Destroyer Toppo. Discussion is over.

[Koitsukai]

Even so when she kicked him he was still SSBK. Also after the first bout against Jiren Goku never stated the Kaioken multiplier for the rest of the tournament. And with the director not mentioning any multiplier we can assume he uses it to the fullest for the rest of the tournament. Honestly your assumption because he was tired, while sensible, is mostly just headcanon now.

Why do we have to assume he uses it at its fullest when he was stated in the same episode to not be recovered to even use SSB? the logical assumption would be that he is doing it with caution. His stamina issues were stated by many people. Actually assuming he is using a form that was not stated is the headcanon.

I already explained Goku not stating it but Beerus doing it for him, like Whis did for him in 109. This subject has no more place to go. The show finds a way to state it and if they don't, like vs Kefla, then it is your own headcanon assuming something the show is not even implying. And once again, he wasn't getting stomped in blue, they were evenly matched with Kefla having the edge. KKx20 would've forced her to go SS2.

At this point it is either your argument that Final Explosion SSBE Vegeta> SSBK Goku or the director which just plainly said after DBS ended that SSBE Vegeta= SSBK Goku.... Needless to say I'll go with the DIRECTOR

Again, it is not MY argument, it is what the show portrayed.Initial SSBE Vegeta wasn't weaker than Goku, definitely not 20x weaker, nothing of that sort is even implied. Ishintani's comment would be fair if Vegeta was fodder or deadweight, but he was great. Facts on the show >> out-of-universe statements.
Besides if shirtless Vegeta was just now equal to SSBKKx20 Goku, why did Jiren complimented only him(and Toppo by proxy) over a hit that didn't even land? Goku was going all out for longer and got no comment whatsoever. Jiren implied Vegeta was actually the strongest at the moment which coincides with the narrative(and with the manga too). Needless to say I'll go with the show.

And also don't overstate the power of Destroyer Toppo, him being the level of let's say SSBK x15 Goku isn't bad. Don't forget even Goku and Vegeta as SSB's has top tier power levels in DBS. Goku even did hakai in the DBS manga. And the hakaishin tier you mention don't lump Toppo so high Beerus himself stated that it even took time for Toppo to charge up his hakai attacks, and yes Goku SSBK was hakaishin tier since he was stated to be equal to SSBE Vegeta(who also is hakaishin tier). So Destroyer Toppo is weaker than SSBKx20 Goku. Don't complain to me all this is OFFICIALY STATED

And as for Kefla's power level if you won't accept her LSS1 power level then take LSS2:
There, LSS2 Kefla>Destroyer Toppo. Discussion is over.

And who said 1st Omen Goku can defeat Hakaishin Toppo? no matter how weak Toppo is compared to other GoDs, he is still one. And base Toppo, while holding back, tanked SSB Goku's kamehameha, so his full power has to match some level of KK without even resorting to the GoD form.
SSBKKx20 can't be stronger than GoD Toppo because Goku was equal to Vegeta according to the fight vs Jiren, and Toppo owned Vegeta. This is something we've all watched and no statement can change what we've all watched. And Goku KKx20 being hakaishin tier is also headcanon, which is ok I respect that, but you should drop the official label because it really isn't.

This discussion is definitely over, I will agree with you on that.

[BagetaSama]

Vegetto especially says Zamasu can't keep up with his speed.

....AKA he says that he is faster. This does not mean Zamasu got slower. Even if he did, Vegetto is much stronger, so if MZ lost speed in favor of strength and was STILL weaker, it shows how big the gap is.

Zamasu literally bulked himself up, already in the Cell arc that was acknowledged as a mistake, because even if it increased your power, it also made you much slower. Trunks did that, Perfect Cell did that, Zamasu did that, they all got power, and they were all much slower. You can tell that Zamasu was still incredibly strong because, right after bulkying up, he was still shown in a stalemate with Vegito and Vegito had to carefully dodge his ki blade.

Just because there is a precedent for it happening does not mean it actually happened in this case.

[SupremeKai25]

....AKA he says that he is faster. This does not mean Zamasu got slower. Even if he did, Vegetto is much stronger, so if MZ lost speed in favor of strength and was STILL weaker, it shows how big the gap is.

Zamasu literally bulked himself up, already in the Cell arc that was acknowledged as a mistake, because even if it increased your power, it also made you much slower. Trunks did that, Perfect Cell did that, Zamasu did that, they all got power, and they were all much slower. You can tell that Zamasu was still incredibly strong because, right after bulkying up, he was still shown in a stalemate with Vegito and Vegito had to carefully dodge his ki blade.

Just because there is a precedent for it happening does not mean it actually happened in this case.

Except for the fact that it is not just the precedent, it is the rule. It is an established fact in the narrative that bulking yourself up increases your strength but diminishes your speed so much that it is not worth it. That was literally a rule stated in the Cell arc and there is no reason to believe it should not be valid in this case either. And we know that Zamasu still had enough strength to be a threat to Vegito, as I explained.

[BagetaSama]

Zamasu literally bulked himself up, already in the Cell arc that was acknowledged as a mistake, because even if it increased your power, it also made you much slower. Trunks did that, Perfect Cell did that, Zamasu did that, they all got power, and they were all much slower. You can tell that Zamasu was still incredibly strong because, right after bulkying up, he was still shown in a stalemate with Vegito and Vegito had to carefully dodge his ki blade.

Just because there is a precedent for it happening does not mean it actually happened in this case.

Except for the fact that it is not just the precedent, it is the rule. It is an established fact in the narrative that bulking yourself up increases your strength but diminishes your speed so much that it is not worth it. That was literally a rule stated in the Cell arc and there is no reason to believe it should not be valid in this case either. And we know that Zamasu still had enough strength to be a threat to Vegito, as I explained.

No, it isn't. Oozaru Vegeta grew in Size and did not lose speed, Broly grew in size and did not lose speed, and there was no such rule that was established where "every single time you get larger you get slower." Such a rule simply does not exist.