*Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

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*Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by theherodjl » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:11 am

IIRC, Beerus joked about destroying Whis back in the BOG film...but is it actually possible for Beerus' power of destruction to eradicate Whis though? Zeno's erasure ability can indisputedly make Angels vanish into nothingness so does that mean the power of destruction can do it as well?
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:13 am

Beerus: Hakai! *tries to Hakai Whis*

Whis: (laughs uncontrollably) Oh My! That tickles!
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am

He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.

Also, we don't really know if Zeno can erase Angels. He probably can do that, because he is the King of All, but we've never actually seen him do that. In the Future timeline, the Angels were already defeated by Zamasu when he killed the Supreme Kais, while in the Present timeline Zeno didn't actually erase any of the Angels at the Tournament of Power.
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by DHM211 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:39 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am
He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:55 am

DHM211 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:39 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am
He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.
Image
In that same manga arc Beerus literally says he cannot destroy an immortal being, and his Hakai was much better than Goku's. So it's confirmed that Goku's attack wouldn't have killed Zamasu, even if it looked like it would.
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:53 pm

It's possible that Whis could lower his defenses to allow Beerus to do it (like Vegeta did against Krillin on Namek).
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by theherodjl » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:14 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am
He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.

Also, we don't really know if Zeno can erase Angels. He probably can do that, because he is the King of All, but we've never actually seen him do that. In the Future timeline, the Angels were already defeated by Zamasu when he killed the Supreme Kais, while in the Present timeline Zeno didn't actually erase any of the Angels at the Tournament of Power.
Daishinkan apparently ceased to exist in the future timeline so Zeno can erase even the greatest Angel from existence. Also, the Angels at the ToP were specifically mentioned to be spared from erasure.
The Angels actually being immortal in the sense of Garlic Jr & Zamasu isn't confirmed. We know they can at least live for tens of millions of years and still retain a youthful appearance but that implies eternal youth rather than immortality in DB's sense.
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:04 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am
He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.

Also, we don't really know if Zeno can erase Angels. He probably can do that, because he is the King of All, but we've never actually seen him do that. In the Future timeline, the Angels were already defeated by Zamasu when he killed the Supreme Kais, while in the Present timeline Zeno didn't actually erase any of the Angels at the Tournament of Power.
The Anime implies had Beerus gone to the future he could have destroyed Zamasu.

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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:09 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:04 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am
He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.

Also, we don't really know if Zeno can erase Angels. He probably can do that, because he is the King of All, but we've never actually seen him do that. In the Future timeline, the Angels were already defeated by Zamasu when he killed the Supreme Kais, while in the Present timeline Zeno didn't actually erase any of the Angels at the Tournament of Power.
The Anime implies had Beerus gone to the future he could have destroyed Zamasu.
That Zamasu is not immortal since he probably warn his other alternate timeline himself to kill him before he uses the Super Dragon Ball. I doubt Beerus can use the Hakai on anyone stronger than him because it won't make sense. It would make him too broken if any GoD can erase someone above them. Also, Beerus not able to kill immortals make sense because his powers probably have some limits to them.
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:19 am

miguelnuva1 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:04 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am
He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.

Also, we don't really know if Zeno can erase Angels. He probably can do that, because he is the King of All, but we've never actually seen him do that. In the Future timeline, the Angels were already defeated by Zamasu when he killed the Supreme Kais, while in the Present timeline Zeno didn't actually erase any of the Angels at the Tournament of Power.
The Anime implies had Beerus gone to the future he could have destroyed Zamasu.
Not really. At the end of the arc Whis says that they have a better sealing technique than the Mafuba to deal with the immortal Zamasu, why would he say that if the Hakai is enough?
theherodjl wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:14 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am
He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.

Also, we don't really know if Zeno can erase Angels. He probably can do that, because he is the King of All, but we've never actually seen him do that. In the Future timeline, the Angels were already defeated by Zamasu when he killed the Supreme Kais, while in the Present timeline Zeno didn't actually erase any of the Angels at the Tournament of Power.
Daishinkan apparently ceased to exist in the future timeline so Zeno can erase even the greatest Angel from existence. Also, the Angels at the ToP were specifically mentioned to be spared from erasure.
The Angels actually being immortal in the sense of Garlic Jr & Zamasu isn't confirmed. We know they can at least live for tens of millions of years and still retain a youthful appearance but that implies eternal youth rather than immortality in DB's sense.
I doubt that there's even a future Grand Priest, but that's another topic entirely.

Sure, it isn't confirmed, But since they are the highest authority in the multiverse besides Zeno, I don't see why they shouldn't be. It's my headcanon, but I think it makes the most sense in the narrative.

Regardless, even if the Angels are not immortal, they are still stronger than the Destroyers, so Beerus couldn't kill Whis. It is only logical after all that this is not possible. The Angels are supposed to train the Destroyers and keep their great powers under control, and their role would be meaningless if the Destroyers could just annihilate them.
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:22 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:19 am
miguelnuva1 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:04 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am
He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.

Also, we don't really know if Zeno can erase Angels. He probably can do that, because he is the King of All, but we've never actually seen him do that. In the Future timeline, the Angels were already defeated by Zamasu when he killed the Supreme Kais, while in the Present timeline Zeno didn't actually erase any of the Angels at the Tournament of Power.
The Anime implies had Beerus gone to the future he could have destroyed Zamasu.
Not really. At the end of the arc Whis says that they have a better sealing technique than the Mafuba to deal with the immortal Zamasu, why would he say that if the Hakai is enough?
theherodjl wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:14 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:23 am
He can't. Angels are immortal and the Hakai cannot destroy immortal beings. Even someone like Future Zamasu, who was much weaker than the Angels, could not be destroyed by Beerus.

Also, we don't really know if Zeno can erase Angels. He probably can do that, because he is the King of All, but we've never actually seen him do that. In the Future timeline, the Angels were already defeated by Zamasu when he killed the Supreme Kais, while in the Present timeline Zeno didn't actually erase any of the Angels at the Tournament of Power.
Daishinkan apparently ceased to exist in the future timeline so Zeno can erase even the greatest Angel from existence. Also, the Angels at the ToP were specifically mentioned to be spared from erasure.
The Angels actually being immortal in the sense of Garlic Jr & Zamasu isn't confirmed. We know they can at least live for tens of millions of years and still retain a youthful appearance but that implies eternal youth rather than immortality in DB's sense.
I doubt that there's even a future Grand Priest, but that's another topic entirely.

Sure, it isn't confirmed, But since they are the highest authority in the multiverse besides Zeno, I don't see why they shouldn't be. It's my headcanon, but I think it makes the most sense in the narrative.

Regardless, even if the Angels are not immortal, they are still stronger than the Destroyers, so Beerus couldn't kill Whis. It is only logical after all that this is not possible. The Angels are supposed to train the Destroyers and keep their great powers under control, and their role would be meaningless if the Destroyers could just annihilate them.
What about the possibility of Whis deliberately lowering his defenses so he could be killed that way?
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:35 am

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:19 am
I doubt that there's even a future Grand Priest, but that's another topic entirely.

Sure, it isn't confirmed, But since they are the highest authority in the multiverse besides Zeno, I don't see why they shouldn't be. It's my headcanon, but I think it makes the most sense in the narrative.

Regardless, even if the Angels are not immortal, they are still stronger than the Destroyers, so Beerus couldn't kill Whis. It is only logical after all that this is not possible. The Angels are supposed to train the Destroyers and keep their great powers under control, and their role would be meaningless if the Destroyers could just annihilate them.
There's a full set of Kaioshin, Hakaishin, and Angels in the future timeline as well as it's own Zeno so logically, Trunks' timeline has/had a Daishinkan.
Just because they're of a higher order doesn't mean they're totally immune to death or annihilation. They have powers that make them untouchable to most beings but that isn't synonymous with being immortal by DB's definition.
Note that Freeza withstood a sphere of destruction launched by a massively weaker opponent, such an example is proof of being able to resist destruction if one's Ki is high enough and on guard.
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:28 am

theherodjl wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:35 am
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:19 am
I doubt that there's even a future Grand Priest, but that's another topic entirely.

Sure, it isn't confirmed, But since they are the highest authority in the multiverse besides Zeno, I don't see why they shouldn't be. It's my headcanon, but I think it makes the most sense in the narrative.

Regardless, even if the Angels are not immortal, they are still stronger than the Destroyers, so Beerus couldn't kill Whis. It is only logical after all that this is not possible. The Angels are supposed to train the Destroyers and keep their great powers under control, and their role would be meaningless if the Destroyers could just annihilate them.
There's a full set of Kaioshin, Hakaishin, and Angels in the future timeline as well as it's own Zeno so logically, Trunks' timeline has/had a Daishinkan.
Just because they're of a higher order doesn't mean they're totally immune to death or annihilation. They have powers that make them untouchable to most beings but that isn't synonymous with being immortal by DB's definition.
Note that Freeza withstood a sphere of destruction launched by a massively weaker opponent, such an example is proof of being able to resist destruction if one's Ki is high enough and on guard.
Freeza was caught off-guard and he still managed to resist the Hakai sphere, since the guy who launched that sphere was much weaker. Therefore Whis would just do the same with Beerus, even if he lowered his guard.

Also, since they're of a higher order and are supposed to keep the Destroyer under control, it wouldn't make sense to let the Destroyer potentially kill the Angels. Furthermore, the Angels themselves are the ones training the Destroyers, so why would they even accept to do that if they knew they were training someone who could kill them?
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Re: *Can* Beerus Destroy Whis?

Post by goku the krump dancer » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:08 am

Honestly the easiest answer is no, simply becasue he's not strong enough to do.

Its a throw away line simply because by the end of the movie its hinted at that Whis is the stronger of the two and by a pretty wide margin. On top of that, at this point in Super's story we know that The Angels are stronger than Gods of Destruction anyway so it doesn't matter.
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