No, Zamasu was never good.

[ABED]

Why do you guys insist on telling me the story? I know all those things. I know his reasons, but regardless of what he saw, something in his personality lead him to wanting to commit mass genocide. Plenty of the gods saw the same things and yet didn't plan to murder everyone.

[Scientist Fu]

Yeah, my bad. As for his personality, he is extremely rigorous and intolerant it can be the cause of his actions.

[SupremeKai25]

A lot of other Gods are sadistic by the way, not just Zamasu. At the beginning of Super, Beerus destroyed a planet full of innocents and smiled, saying that "seeing a planet explode never failed to lighten up his mood". Vados also casually destroyed a planet, knowing full well that she had no reason to destroy it, so she just did it for fun. Yet nobody ever calls them unstable psycopaths, why is that? At least Zamasu committed genocide because he thought he was doing a service to the cosmos, there are gods who commit genocide literally for no reason.

Regarding Zamasu's actions, yes he did some good. By virtue of being a North Kai, he watched over a large portion of U10 for a long time, making sure that it would be fine. We can assume he was a fairly competent North Kai, since he was such a methodical and dutiful person who took his job seriously.

I also don't blame him for being self-obsessed or thinking he's some sort of messiah that can save the cosmos. He was just a lower Kai and yet he was chosen to become Supreme Kai apprentice (which was a special privilege) because he was a fighting prodigy, and he was considered a genius amongst all Kais. Goku complimented him, saying that Shin wouldn't last nearly as long as he did, even though Shin was a full Supreme Kai while Zamasu just an apprentice. I would be egotistical too if people showered me with praise, telling me that I am a genius and I am a prodigy and even my teachers would be no match for me.

Since his eyes were brought up, his eyeliner actually becomes darker as he falls from grace. At the beginning of the arc his eyeliner is barely visible, but by the time he is destroyed by Beerus he had very dark eyeliner around his eyes. It was the same thing with Majin Vegeta, the more he abandoned the right path and the more his eyeliner became darker. This was an interesting and subtle representation of Zamasu's slow but gradual descent into madness.

[Scientist Fu]

Vados destroyed a planet because Champa asked her. She then says that even if she told him that it was the wrong planet he would've done it anyway. As for Beerus' case, it is true that he is cruel and is abusing his power, I'd say he is selfish and can be pretty apathetic too. But he at least did not kill the other gods and did not kill all mortals, and he is much more obedient to rules than Zamasu.

[ABED]

They are gods of destruction. That's their purpose. I don't know how the universe of DB works exactly but at the very least, they destroy planets wholesale. They don't murder people practically one by one. I don't give a damn if he thinks he's right, he's not. What he thinks is irrelevant.

The gods don't do it for no reason. At least that's the sole point of their creation. It's their duty. It's a messed up duty, but a duty none the less.

[SupremeKai25]

Vados destroyed a planet because Champa asked her. She then says that even if she told him that it was the wrong planet he would've done it anyway. As for Beerus' case, it is true that he is cruel and is abusing his power, I'd say he is selfish and can be pretty apathetic too. But he at least did not kill the other gods and did not kill all mortals, and he is much more obedient to rules than Zamasu.

Angels have no problem stopping Destroyers when they are about to do something stupid, she could've easily smacked some sense into him but decided not to. Champa also destroys entire planets without any concern whatsoever. When he learned that he committed genocide on the wrong target, he just shrugged it off and went to the next planet to destroy. And don't even get me started on the U9 angel, who smiled when an entire universe was erased.

Also, Beerus is obedient to rules when he prefers to host tournaments in his name than actually doing his job? Even Zeno agreed he was a terrible Destroyer who had to be replaced.

They are gods of destruction. That's their purpose. I don't know how the universe of DB works exactly but at the very least, they destroy planets wholesale. They don't murder people practically one by one. I don't give a damn if he thinks he's right, he's not. What he thinks is irrelevant.

The gods don't do it for no reason. At least that's the sole point of their creation. It's their duty. It's a messed up duty, but a duty none the less.

Oh, so when Zamasu justifies his actions by saying it's his duty as a God he's an unstable psycopath, but when the Destroyers use that same excuse they are fine?

Besides, many times they do it for no reason. Beerus destroyed planets because he doesn't like the food made there. He wanted to destroy the Earth because Buu stole his food. He doesn't care about genocide and is willing to exterminate entire species for much less than Zamasu. And yes, when you destroy a planet, you murder people one by one.

[Scientist Fu]

The Gods of destruction have to eliminate threats which represent a danger for their universe. Beerus and Champa are both very bad at their job, they both destroy planets for absurd reasons. But apart from that, they are not as bad as Zamasu who killed every single mortal when his duty as a Kai was to protect them and make peace prevail, and he also sees himself as the most perfect God in all the universes.

Angels have no problem stopping Destroyers when they are about to do something stupid, she could've easily smacked some sense into him but decided not to. Champa also destroys entire planets without any concern whatsoever. When he learned that he committed genocide on the wrong target, he just shrugged it off and went to the next planet to destroy. And don't even get me started on the U9 angel, who smiled when an entire universe was erased.

Also, Beerus is obedient to rules when he prefers to host tournaments in his name than actually doing his job? Even Zeno agreed he was a terrible Destroyer who had to be replaced.

Even if she did, Champa would still destroy the planet as she said, so it doesn't really matter at this point. And don't forget that Angels are neutral, they don't have to feel anything towards mortals nor show any remorses. Her smiling does not make her a bloodthirsty murderer, she is just doing her job, serving the God of destruction.

[SupremeKai25]

Even if she did, Champa would still destroy the planet as she said, so it doesn't really matter at this point. And don't forget that Angels are neutral, they don't have to feel anything towards mortals nor show any remorses. Her smiling does not make her a bloodthirsty murderer, she is just doing her job, serving the God of destruction.

That's the same argument Zamasu used to justify his actions. He saw it as his duty to destroy what he perceived as the ultimate evil, without being bound to feeling any remorse. Why should he feel remorse? He thought he was doing the right thing. From a mortal's perspective, the parallels between Zamasu and angels should be obvious. If angels can say "Sorry, we're just doing our job, now let us smile at this destroyed world", why can't Zamasu say "Sorry, I am just doing my job as the protector of this universe, as is my right as Supreme Kai. Now let me smile and monologue in peace"?

And don't even get me started on the double standards concerning Beerus. Zamasu was so bad for what he did, meanwhile Beerus wanted to slaughter everyone on Earth down to the last child because he couldn't eat a damn sweet, but nobody ever confronts him about that And again, yes, you can justfiy this by saying that he is a Destroyer so he is entitled to destroying stuff, but that should not mean anything to a mortal. Just like Trunks did not care that he broke divine law by time travelling, because he did it out of necessity.

Let me restate that I dont condone genocide at all, when I defend Zamasu I only try to rationalize his intentions, I dont agree with his methods at all, and one thing I like about his character arc is how he ultimately got real karma when he became the thing he hated the most. But at the same time there are some serious double standards going on in the Dragon Ball world.

But apart from that, they are not as bad as Zamasu who killed every single mortal when his duty as a Kai was to protect them and make peace prevail

And he still thought he was fighting for peace. He just thought that mortals were the only obstacle towards peace. Which is true, because mortals are inherently flawed creatures driven by greed, ambition, hatred, so as long as they exist there can never be true peace. Good intentions, bad methods. You cannot even blame him that much for his "God complex" (as in, he wanted to be the Supreme God) because he was a famous prodigy and genius, so really it is not a surprise he had this big ego and built this messiah persona around himself. It is similar to how Vegeta was, he was royalty so he saw himself as a superior breed compared to the lower peasants.

[ABED]

What is with your obsession with Zamasu?

If he saw it as just a job he wouldn't enjoy the carnage and would be as expedient as possible.

Let me restate that I dont condone genocide at all, when I defend Zamasu I only try to rationalize his intentions, I dont agree with his methods at all, and one thing I like about his character arc is how he ultimately got real karma when he became the thing he hated the most. But at the same time there are some serious double standards going on in the Dragon Ball world.
Nope, because he was purely rationalizing a sadistic bloodlust and regardless, it wasn't his duty to do what he did. No, stop thinking that. No, not that, either. Nope wrong about that, too. Sorry, I'm just trying to get ahead of you and tell you that everything you say in his defense is wrong. Zamasu doesn't actually believe he's doing the right thing. He's a sadist who is rationalizing his behavior.

And he still thought he was fighting for peace.

To him, peace was everyone bowing to him or dying. He has ZERO good intentions. I can blame him for his god complex as being a god is utterly meaningless. It just means they have a great amount of power. Yes, Zamasu is very much like Vegeta in that both are arrogant, but that's not a good thing.

The Gods of destruction have to eliminate threats which represent a danger for their universe. Beerus and Champa are both very bad at their job, they both destroy planets for absurd reasons.

Do they really? They're mostly talk. Beerus constantly threatens people if he doesn't get good food or if they slightly make him peeved, but he never does anything. I'm beginning to think it's something of a facade. He's not nearly as finicky as he makes it seem.

And yes, when you destroy a planet, you murder people one by one.

No, he did it in a blink of an eye. Zamasu drew out the death and destruction.

[Scientist Fu]

@SupremeKai25 I think we are not understanding each other or I just don't know how to express myself properly.

Zamasu can use any arguments he wants it won't change a single thing, his role was to observe, learn, protect and keep an eye on mortals and not immediately interfere and destroy them. I know that he thought he was doing the right thing, but it does not prove him right. The difference between an Angel/Destroyer and Zamasu is that the other two have the "right" to do what they are doing, while Zamasu had none and on top of that he pushed it way too far by killing every single mortal in all universes, he even killed his own master and all the other gods. From a mortal's perspective a threat is a threat, but we can't use that argument to soften Zamasu's actions. He's a lot more extreme than any of the other villains we've seen so far. Even Majin Boo who is purely evil, what he did is nothing compared to what Zamasu caused in all the multiverse.

I can't feel any sympathy for him, he deserved what happened to him, because the truth is that all the things he has done was completely wrong. Being a prodigy/genius does not mean that you can't be humble, he is just full of himself and I can blame him for that. He didn't even want or try to improve as a person, he just did what he wanted to do without listening to anyone, when everyone around him has warned him that his sense of justice was wrong.

We all know that he thought he was doing the right thing for peace/justice, but unfortunately, that does not change what he did, he didn't bring peace.

I think I have said what I wanted to say and I can't force you to agree with what I am saying, so I will just stop here. Was nice talking to you guys.

[SupremeKai25]

I already acknowledged that it was not his position to destroy things, but why should a mortal care? How is Beerus destroying a planet for petty reasons different from the perspective of a mortal? In fact I even said I was not softening Zamasu's actions, I'm pointing out the double standards applied in the show.

A lot of Gods are arrogant and egotistical by the way... I'd be hard for me to find a humble God. Maybe Shin. They are Gods, it's not in their nature to be humble. And Zamasu was a prodigy amongst Gods, so he was even more full of himself.

We all know that he thought he was doing the right thing for peace/justice, but unfortunately, that does not change what he did, he didn't bring peace.

Yeah, cause he was stopped.

[ABED]

Or because murder doesn't ever bring peace.

[theherodjl]

I think its possible that Zamasu was driven mad by the process of becoming a Kaioshin. As far as we know, a Kaio only lives for several thousand years observing their appointed galaxy and is eventually replaced by a new one. Being a Kaioshin however, is a position that is meant to last tens of millions of years and has a significantly greater purpose & responsibility in the cosmic hierarchy. Perhaps going from Kaio to Kaioshin was too much for Zamasu's inherent build & nature and thus, an unstable reaction generated within and corrupted Zamasu?

[Sadala Elite]

Zamasu was your typical hypocritical, virtue-signaling, self-righteous narcissist. Its obvious from his debut appearance that he wasn't a good guy.

[SupremeKai25]

He didn't really look like a bad guy at the beginning. In fact I remember seeing many theories about him being a potential good guy or ally against Black, or maybe that he would find the right path unlike his counterpart. Shin looked much more villainous when he first appeared. It's only when Future Zamasu made his debut that it was clear he was destined to go down a dark path, before that he was still neutral.

[ABED]

He was already down that path, he just hadn't taken action yet.

[Block88]

I don't know where he stands. I think he was somewhat "good/decent" in his early age when his mind wasn't yet tainted with vice but he obviously had a lot of potential to become evil one day because he is a fascist. He is also self-centered and obstinate.

The Dragon Ball universe is run be a deranged child god and his army of twink caretakers. The gods' handpicked champions are invariably borderline psychotic bloodknights who only just manage to keep themselves from destroying entire worlds in their squabbles. Fascism looks like a sunny meadow compared to that.

I wouldn’t say all God’s there’s a reason the top four universes were exempt from the tournament

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

I wouldn’t say all God’s there’s a reason the top four universes were exempt from the tournament

That's fair. And I guess there's an argument to be made that those gods aren't obligated to worry about worlds outside their own universe.

[SupremeKai25]

The Gods are selfish. If Zamasu had limited Project Zero Mortals to U7 and U10, they probably would not have even intervened. They did no do anything when U7 was ravaged by Buu and Freeza. They are proactive only when their universes are concerned.

Speaking of which, we never saw what Zamasu did in the other universes, what a shame. We only know he had already purged a high number of mortal civilizations before coming to Earth.

[goku the krump dancer]

Lets not forget that Beerus blew up half that planet because those alien folk actually tried to poison him but it didn't work (obviously). On top of the food not being that great and they were probably shitty people too.

While never fully explored (yet and maybe not at all) there seems to be some sort of method to Beerus' madness, he's not a mostly mindless killing machine like Boo. Remember it was he who designated or atleast gave Freeza the Green Light to destroy Planet Vegeta because despite the Broly Movie and Minus depicting the saiyans as somewhat of a rational race of people, lets keep in mind that they are blood thirsty savages for them most part, the "good" saiyans were killed off by their own kind. He even considered snuffing out Freeza himself but didn't get around to it/ never got a chance too.

He's quick tempered and kinda lousy at his job but Beerus aint evil, he and Whis are more neutral than anything.