No, Zamasu was never good.

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SupremeKai25
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:18 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:10 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:21 pm
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:35 pm
Not to distract too much from the conversation being had but we all remember that Zamasu was an actual god right? It's not a god complex when your actual job is to judge and lord over humanity. Nor is it narcissism to consider yourself a divine arbiter when you're an actual divine arbiter.
Very true. That's also why I don't understand people who say "well, he makes too much of a big deal out of time travel". Like, he's a God, he's enforcing divine laws. Trunks defied divine law by time travelling, and in doing so shattered the time-space continuum (even Gowasu called him a fool), so of course Zamasu, who has a strong sense of justice, would want to punish him and the earthlings severely. That's why he wanted to slowly punish earthlings for their sins and didn't just kill them all in 10 seconds like Buu did.
You honestly just made a good argument for why Zamasu is such a despicable psychopath, and not a remotely sympathetic character. If the intention was to portray Zamasu as this sympathetic and complex villain, then both Toei and Toyotoro failed, in my opinion.
What? Just because the character is a God and thus does not apply human logic does not mean he cannot be sympathetic.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:22 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:18 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:10 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:21 pm


Very true. That's also why I don't understand people who say "well, he makes too much of a big deal out of time travel". Like, he's a God, he's enforcing divine laws. Trunks defied divine law by time travelling, and in doing so shattered the time-space continuum (even Gowasu called him a fool), so of course Zamasu, who has a strong sense of justice, would want to punish him and the earthlings severely. That's why he wanted to slowly punish earthlings for their sins and didn't just kill them all in 10 seconds like Buu did.
You honestly just made a good argument for why Zamasu is such a despicable psychopath, and not a remotely sympathetic character. If the intention was to portray Zamasu as this sympathetic and complex villain, then both Toei and Toyotoro failed, in my opinion.
What? Just because the character is a God and thus does not apply human logic does not mean he cannot be sympathetic.
He clearly doesn’t operate by God logic either. He’s significantly more twisted than the likes of Beerus and Champa, and those guys destroy planets for a living. Even Zen-Oh agreed that he needed to be erased.

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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:24 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:10 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:21 pm
Very true. That's also why I don't understand people who say "well, he makes too much of a big deal out of time travel". Like, he's a God, he's enforcing divine laws. Trunks defied divine law by time travelling, and in doing so shattered the time-space continuum (even Gowasu called him a fool), so of course Zamasu, who has a strong sense of justice, would want to punish him and the earthlings severely. That's why he wanted to slowly punish earthlings for their sins and didn't just kill them all in 10 seconds like Buu did.
You honestly just made a good argument for why Zamasu is such a despicable psychopath, and not a remotely sympathetic character. If the intention was to portray Zamasu as this sympathetic and complex villain, then both Toei and Toyotoro failed, in my opinion.
But that's every god. Both in the fiction of Dragon Ball and in our own real world mythologies. Holy texts are filled with stories of gods punishing the disobedience of man in cruel ways. Apollo cursing Cassandra so that she can see the future but never be believed, Yahweh murdering the first born of every Egyptian family, Enki having to warn a favored king that the other gods intend to destroy humanity with a great flood. Personally, I do think that makes these gods cruel and capricious but Zamasu behaving like the majority of his real world counterparts... I dunno it just feels weird to me to call him a psychopath when it's such a typical godly thing to do.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:30 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:22 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:18 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:10 pm


You honestly just made a good argument for why Zamasu is such a despicable psychopath, and not a remotely sympathetic character. If the intention was to portray Zamasu as this sympathetic and complex villain, then both Toei and Toyotoro failed, in my opinion.
What? Just because the character is a God and thus does not apply human logic does not mean he cannot be sympathetic.
He clearly doesn’t operate by God logic either. He’s significantly more twisted than the likes of Beerus and Champa, and those guys destroy planets for a living. Even Zen-Oh agreed that he needed to be erased.
It is not him that does not operate by God logic, it is everyone else. Beerus operates by God logic? The guy willing to commit genocide if he does not like food?

Zeno was willing to erase EVERYONE if the wish made at the end of the ToP was a selfish one, without any concern for the many selfless mortals who would have paid for no reason. Zeno also believed that Beerus and Champa suck at their job and should be replaced, does that mean that Beerus and Champa are villains too? Because given their crimes I would not disagree, but just to make sure we are on the same page.

Finally, if Zamasu is a psycopath, then so are Zeno, Beerus, and Champa. And Vegeta too, since he basically committed mundicide with no hesitation.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:35 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:24 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:10 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:21 pm
Very true. That's also why I don't understand people who say "well, he makes too much of a big deal out of time travel". Like, he's a God, he's enforcing divine laws. Trunks defied divine law by time travelling, and in doing so shattered the time-space continuum (even Gowasu called him a fool), so of course Zamasu, who has a strong sense of justice, would want to punish him and the earthlings severely. That's why he wanted to slowly punish earthlings for their sins and didn't just kill them all in 10 seconds like Buu did.
You honestly just made a good argument for why Zamasu is such a despicable psychopath, and not a remotely sympathetic character. If the intention was to portray Zamasu as this sympathetic and complex villain, then both Toei and Toyotoro failed, in my opinion.
But that's every god. Both in the fiction of Dragon Ball and in our own real world mythologies. Holy texts are filled with stories of gods punishing the disobedience of man in cruel ways. Apollo cursing Cassandra so that she can see the future but never be believed, Yahweh murdering the first born of every Egyptian family, Enki having to warn a favored king that the other gods intend to destroy humanity with a great flood. Personally, I do think that makes these gods cruel and capricious but Zamasu behaving like the majority of his real world counterparts... I dunno it just feels weird to me to call him a psychopath when it's such a typical godly thing to do.
As far as Dragon Ball is concerned, something to keep in mind is that, prior to the introduction of the Gods of Destruction, the deities in Dragon Ball were pretty much always portrayed as being benevolent. Characters like Kami, Kaio and Shin were all portrayed as well meaning allies to Goku and the others. In Zamasu’s case, he’s not even a God of Destruction. He’s a Kaioshin, and he’s clearly far more sadistic and unstable than any of the other Kaioshins we’ve seen in the series.

To be clear, I don’t necessarily have a problem with Zamasu being this incredibly evil and petty psychopath. That’s par for the course when it comes to Dragon Ball villains. Even Vegeta was like that. I just think it’s silly to act like Zamasu is this super complex and misguided believer of justice, when both the manga and the anime go out of their way to highlight his cruelty.

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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:47 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:35 pm
As far as Dragon Ball is concerned, something to keep in mind is that, prior to the introduction of the Gods of Destruction, the deities in Dragon Ball were pretty much always portrayed as being benevolent. Characters like Kami, Kaio and Shin were all portrayed as well meaning allies to Goku and the others. In Zamasu’s case, he’s not even a God of Destruction. He’s a Kaioshin, and he’s clearly far more sadistic and unstable than any of the other Kaioshins we’ve seen in the series.
That is not very true actually. Or rather, yes, it is true that Zamasu was more genocidal than the other Kais, since he had a much stronger sense of justice, but the other Kais are not exactly such innocent people. Roh from U9 is utterly despicable. Want a Kai with no actual redeeming qualities? Look at him. Then we also have Anat from U1, a competent Kai who made his universe into the strongest in the cosmos. Do you know what Anat stance on the ToP was? That the erasure of the lower universes was necessary to maintain cosmic balance. He basically condoned universal genocide, and he is not exactly a fool, since again he is the most competent Kai alive. Does that make him despicable too? I mean, he shrugged off Zeno erasing trillions of innocent people. The Grand Priest is no different. He looks so benevolent and friendly, but he was smiling after Zeno erased U9, when every mortal warrior was shocked (hence why many people were speculating that Grand Priest was evil, but thats another subject entirely).

Point is, Zamasu is far from the only despicable Kai or the only Kai who applied cold, rational logic that did not care about mortal feelings. They are Gods. They are superior, it is only natural they look down on mortals and dont really have their same moral values. If destroying a planet would be considered madness by mortals, it could be seen as a sacred duty from a Gods perspective.
To be clear, I don’t necessarily have a problem with Zamasu being this incredibly evil and petty psychopath. That’s par for the course when it comes to Dragon Ball villains. Even Vegeta was like that. I just think it’s silly to act like Zamasu is this super complex and misguided believer of justice, when both the manga and the anime go out of their way to highlight his cruelty.
Nothing super complex here. Zamasu is far from the most complex anime villain, or far from a complex morally grey villain anyway. I just think some people are being too superficial when looking at this character. If you just stop at "well, he committed mass murder/genocide", well, then no villain is complex. I personally believe that Zamasu, while not being very complex compared to villains of other anime, is still a very deep character in Dragon Ball and so I like talking about him.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:02 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:47 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:35 pm
As far as Dragon Ball is concerned, something to keep in mind is that, prior to the introduction of the Gods of Destruction, the deities in Dragon Ball were pretty much always portrayed as being benevolent. Characters like Kami, Kaio and Shin were all portrayed as well meaning allies to Goku and the others. In Zamasu’s case, he’s not even a God of Destruction. He’s a Kaioshin, and he’s clearly far more sadistic and unstable than any of the other Kaioshins we’ve seen in the series.
That is not very true actually. Or rather, yes, it is true that Zamasu was more genocidal than the other Kais, since he had a much stronger sense of justice, but the other Kais are not exactly angels (as in, benevolent and innocent people). Roh from U9 is utterly despicable. Want a Kai with no actual redeeming qualities? Look at him. Then we also have Anat, from U1, a competent Kai who made his universe into the strongest in the cosmos. Do you know what Anat stance on the ToP was? That the erasure of the lower universes was necessary to maintain cosmic balance. He basically condoned universal genocide, and he is not exactly a fool, since again he is the most competent Kai alive.

Point is, Zamasu is far from the only despicable Kai or the only Kai who applied cold, rational logic that did not care about mortal feelings. They are Gods. They are superior, it is only natural they look down on mortals.
To be clear, I don’t necessarily have a problem with Zamasu being this incredibly evil and petty psychopath. That’s par for the course when it comes to Dragon Ball villains. Even Vegeta was like that. I just think it’s silly to act like Zamasu is this super complex and misguided believer of justice, when both the manga and the anime go out of their way to highlight his cruelty.
Nothing super complex here. Zamasu is far from the most complex anime villain, or far from a complex morally grey villain anyway. I just think some people are being too superficial when looking at this character. If you just stop at "well, he committed mass murder/genocide", well, then no villain is complex. I personally believe that Zamasu, while not being very complex compared to villains of other anime, is still a very deep character in Dragon Ball and so I like talking about him.
I didn’t say all the other Kaioshins are saints, but Zamasu is far worse than the likes of Roh and Anat. Neither of those guys have shown a willingness to kill their fellow Gods, or entire universes at large, and Roh was actually appalled that Freeza was willing to betray his own universe.

To be clear, I’m not even necessarily saying that I think Zamasu is a completely one-dimensional villain. The fact that he views himself as the good guy certainly does help set him apart from other Dragon Ball villains. I just think that if the intention was for his story to have an element of tragedy to it, they should’ve done more to humanize him. This might be a cliched example at this point, but look at Thanos in IW. Like Zamasu, he’s also portrayed as a bloodthirsty murderer who’s delusional enough to think that mass genocide is okay. But he also has his moments that demonstrate that he is capable of showing a twisted form of compassion for others.

Anyway, I can see that you’re obviously a big fan of the character, and that’s cool. I wouldn’t even consider him to be one of the lesser villains in the franchise. I’d put him about on par with Baby.

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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:27 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:02 pm
I didn’t say all the other Kaioshins are saints, but Zamasu is far worse than the likes of Roh and Anat. Neither of those guys have shown a willingness to kill their fellow Gods, or entire universes at large, and Roh was actually appalled that Freeza was willing to betray his own universe.
You said Zamasu is far different from the other Kais. We saw a Kai, one of the most competent ones, who was okay with universal genocide so long as it benefitted some kind of divine plan or balance. Does that make him a psycopath too? I mean, condoning universal genocide is kind of a big deal...

As for Roh, funnily enough, I think the word "despicable" was actually used to refer to Roh, when it was discovered he was willing to drug his fighters just to win. He is shown to be dishonorable, conniving, and even cruel in some way, since he motivates his fighters to be as brutal as possible.
To be clear, I’m not even necessarily saying that I think Zamasu is a completely one-dimensional villain. The fact that he views himself as the good guy certainly does help set him apart from other Dragon Ball villains. I just think that if the intention was for his story to have an element of tragedy to it, they should’ve done more to humanize him.
That is what I said at the beginning, yes. I said the question should not be whether he was good or not, because since Toryiama himself said he was good at the beginning, that is not up for debate (it is also stated in the show that he has purity of heart). We should instead wonder whether it was conveyed in a satisfying manner that he was supposed to be a sympathetic villain. In my opinion, yes, he made me sympathize with him at times. However, I would have preferred if they drived home more the fact that he really was causing all of that destruction to achieve his utopia. While it is true he was a sadist who wanted to slowly annihilate mortals, he also mentioned at one point how he thought all of that destruction was unfortunate but required to achieve his utopia. I would have liked to see that aspect of Zamasu more. Him noting how all of that destruction does sadden him a lot, because he is ruining the worlds he loves so much, and yet finding solace in the fact that a great paradise will rise from the ashes. This would better convey the idea that he is not just destroying things to feel better about himself or to torment mortals, but because he literally wants to wash away the old world and replace it with a new utopia.
This might be a cliched example at this point, but look at Thanos in IW. Like Zamasu, he’s also portrayed as a bloodthirsty murderer who’s delusional enough to think that mass genocide is okay. But he also has his moments that demonstrate that he is capable of showing a twisted form of compassion for others.
Nothing cliche in it at all. I completely agree that Thanos was a fantastic villain. I suppose it is kind of implied that Zamasu can show compassion for other life forms beyond his counterpart. After all, he refrained from destroying the woods around the cabin where he lived. So I guess he showed compassion for the animal and plants living in those forests.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by ABED » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:41 pm

This would better convey the idea that he is not just destroying things to feel better about himself or to torment mortals, but because he literally wants to wash away the old world and replace it with a new utopia.
Because he doesn't. Genocidal douchebags never do.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:40 am

ABED wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:41 pm
This would better convey the idea that he is not just destroying things to feel better about himself or to torment mortals, but because he literally wants to wash away the old world and replace it with a new utopia.
Because he doesn't. Genocidal douchebags never do.
Doesn't do what?
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by ABED » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:54 am

He's not out for a utopia. It's what he's convinced himself he wants, but what he really wants is death and destruction.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:13 am

ABED wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:54 am
He's not out for a utopia. It's what he's convinced himself he wants, but what he really wants is death and destruction.
Death and destruction is not his goal but the means by which achieve his true goal, which is building a new world. Fused Zamasu even said he wanted to pierce the Earth and wash everything away in preparation for the arrival of a divine new world. Black earlier in the arc also lamented that destruction, but took solace in the golden future he envisioned for the universe. If what he really wanted was just destruction for the sake of destruction, he wouldn't have spared the lush forest close to his base of operations.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by ABED » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:13 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:13 am
ABED wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:54 am
He's not out for a utopia. It's what he's convinced himself he wants, but what he really wants is death and destruction.
Death and destruction is not his goal but the means by which achieve his true goal, which is building a new world. Fused Zamasu even said he wanted to pierce the Earth and wash everything away in preparation for the arrival of a divine new world. Black earlier in the arc also lamented that destruction, but took solace in the golden future he envisioned for the universe. If what he really wanted was just destruction for the sake of destruction, he wouldn't have spared the lush forest close to his base of operations.
Building a new world is his stated goal just as it is every despot. People like to evade their true aims if they want to be able to look themselves in the mirror. He may very well love nature, but Zamasu is out to murder people.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:31 pm

ABED wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:13 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:13 am
ABED wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:54 am
He's not out for a utopia. It's what he's convinced himself he wants, but what he really wants is death and destruction.
Death and destruction is not his goal but the means by which achieve his true goal, which is building a new world. Fused Zamasu even said he wanted to pierce the Earth and wash everything away in preparation for the arrival of a divine new world. Black earlier in the arc also lamented that destruction, but took solace in the golden future he envisioned for the universe. If what he really wanted was just destruction for the sake of destruction, he wouldn't have spared the lush forest close to his base of operations.
Building a new world is his stated goal just as it is every despot. People like to evade their true aims if they want to be able to look themselves in the mirror. He may very well love nature, but Zamasu is out to murder people.
I never denied he was out for blood. But the point is that genocide was not his final goal, it was just the first stage of his plan. He was a Kai, so he had the power to create new life. If he succeeded in his goal of wiping out all mortals, he would not have remained in an empty and barren universe. He would have likely used his Kai powers to nurture new life and create the paradise he desired, in which everyone obeys to his commands. He proved his ability to create new sentient life when he conjured that giant winged creature. He saw himself as the ultimate God who embodied both creation and destruction.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by ABED » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:06 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:31 pm
ABED wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:13 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 11:13 am


Death and destruction is not his goal but the means by which achieve his true goal, which is building a new world. Fused Zamasu even said he wanted to pierce the Earth and wash everything away in preparation for the arrival of a divine new world. Black earlier in the arc also lamented that destruction, but took solace in the golden future he envisioned for the universe. If what he really wanted was just destruction for the sake of destruction, he wouldn't have spared the lush forest close to his base of operations.
Building a new world is his stated goal just as it is every despot. People like to evade their true aims if they want to be able to look themselves in the mirror. He may very well love nature, but Zamasu is out to murder people.
I never denied he was out for blood. But the point is that genocide was not his final goal, it was just the first stage of his plan. He was a Kai, so he had the power to create new life. If he succeeded in his goal of wiping out all mortals, he would not have remained in an empty and barren universe. He would have likely used his Kai powers to nurture new life and create the paradise he desired, in which everyone obeys to his commands. He proved his ability to create new sentient life when he conjured that giant winged creature. He saw himself as the ultimate God who embodied both creation and destruction.
I would argue it was his goal. He wanted power for its own sake and to kill mortals. I have a hard time believing that someone who really just wants untouched nature would have his pride wounded because a mortal defeated him. You don't have to explain who Zamasu is to me. I get it, but there's subtext there. If he wants to create life that obeys him and his desires, it's a pretty good indication that his motives aren't merely creating life.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:36 pm

ABED wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:06 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:31 pm
ABED wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:13 pm
Building a new world is his stated goal just as it is every despot. People like to evade their true aims if they want to be able to look themselves in the mirror. He may very well love nature, but Zamasu is out to murder people.
I never denied he was out for blood. But the point is that genocide was not his final goal, it was just the first stage of his plan. He was a Kai, so he had the power to create new life. If he succeeded in his goal of wiping out all mortals, he would not have remained in an empty and barren universe. He would have likely used his Kai powers to nurture new life and create the paradise he desired, in which everyone obeys to his commands. He proved his ability to create new sentient life when he conjured that giant winged creature. He saw himself as the ultimate God who embodied both creation and destruction.
I would argue it was his goal. He wanted power for its own sake and to kill mortals. I have a hard time believing that someone who really just wants untouched nature would have his pride wounded because a mortal defeated him. You don't have to explain who Zamasu is to me. I get it, but there's subtext there. If he wants to create life that obeys him and his desires, it's a pretty good indication that his motives aren't merely creating life.
Not power for its own sake. Maybe Black did, once he started being influenced by his Saiyan body and wanted to become stronger. But Future Zamasu tells Goku how immortality was necessary to achieve his dream. So he sought power always with the mindset that he wanted to use that power to build his perfect world. You can argue that all of that talk about building his perfect world was just a way to feel good about himself or to feel almighty and powerful, but I do not believe that was his only aim or that was just a lie he could use as a shield. He's always sought to achieve peace, even when he was North Kai, so before he had bad encounters with mortals, before he defied the Gods and sought to become the sole deity in the cosmos.

Also, being defeated by a mortal was a big deal for him. That's when he understood that mortals were not just useless creatures, but an actual threat to the Gods. If a mortal was able to defeat a God, and a prodigy Kai nonetheless, then that means that the Gods ultimately failed, because they created something that they could not control, and so they couldn't call themselves Gods anymore. His defeat at the hands of Goku opened his eyes about the dangerous potential of mortals and the grave mistakes of the Gods.
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by ABED » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pm

Please stop telling me the plot to me. I got it.
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SupremeKai25
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:19 pm

ABED wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pm
Please stop telling me the plot to me. I got it.
Actually I'm not telling you the plot, I'm telling you some things about Zamasu.
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LoganForkHands73
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:24 pm

Late to chip in but I've written an entire essay detailing that Zamasu was basically always a narcissistic sociopath, a ticking time bomb. Thing is about sociopaths, they're usually harmless when left to their own devices and tend to be bigger dangers to themselves than anyone else. We see the innocent side in the manga when he was just a regular Kai observing his quadrant with a pet pig. But then we see the self-loathing in the anime scene where he flat-out cries when Vegito deconstructs him.

And the important thing to remember about "heart purity" argument in Dragon Ball is that it's always been a nebulous buzzword -- Toriyama usually seems to portray it as a trait of a character who is 100% true to themselves and their own desires, like an animal. Hence why Goku can occasionally be selfish and "poisonous", in his words. He's simple, transparent and comfortable in his own skin, never pretending to be anything he's not.

Zamasu is complex because while his goals can be construed as having benevolent intentions, his methods reveal his decidedly shady and "impure" motivations behind it all. I think the perfect tea thing was brought up before, but we see that while his tea appears to be clear at first, it upon closer inspection we see that it is cloudy. That summarises Zamasu's whole being. He wants to be a pure, transparent idealist but beneath it all he's a corrupt shell of a person.

Maybe I'm just a cynic but I find that it's very rare for an apparently good character to develop into a remorseless monster without there having been some baggage from their past actions. It's the case with Walter White, it's the case with Anakin Skywalker and I think it's certainly the case with Zamasu.
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ABED
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Re: No, Zamasu was never good.

Post by ABED » Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:29 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:19 pm
ABED wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:10 pm
Please stop telling me the plot to me. I got it.
Actually I'm not telling you the plot, I'm telling you some things about Zamasu.
But nothing beyond the text.

LoganForkHands hit the nail on the head.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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