Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
TobyS
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by TobyS » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:48 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:36 am
C-17 and C-18 most likely didn't WANT to turn back to normal humans.
See how he had no issues removing the bombs they quite obviously didn't want.

Likewise, he couldn't teleport Goku only because Goku REFUSED, not just because he was stronger.

Hell, if being stronger than the dragon was enough to make you immune to it no matter what, why bother with the whole Namek saga?
Freeza was VASTLY stronger than anybody else on Namek, Polunga should have been unable to change his fundamental nature and make him immortal... the Nameks should just have said so to Freeza.
Hell, Same thing in the DBS:Broly movie!

But the point was never discussed.


Everything points to "Dragons cannot effect those stronger than themselves unless they agree to it"
Exactly.

Besides the magic dragon casting dispell on the magic earrings is still more plausible then him reverting super science altered cyborgs.

The cyborgs are toast that can't be turned back to bread. The kaioshins were magic beings magically glued together.

Consent is clearly a variable. Shenron says he can't kill vegeta and nappa because they are stronger than Kami the implication being if they werent he could. Yet dragons can't teleport Goku without permission. But can teleport vegeta to earth, who's indifferent to the idea I guess.

He can also regen gokus chi to full against kid buu even though gokus stronger than him.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

User avatar
Ripper 30
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:16 am
Location: India
Contact:

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by Ripper 30 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:09 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:36 am
C-17 and C-18 most likely didn't WANT to turn back to normal humans.
See how he had no issues removing the bombs they quite obviously didn't want.

Likewise, he couldn't teleport Goku only because Goku REFUSED, not just because he was stronger.

Hell, if being stronger than the dragon was enough to make you immune to it no matter what, why bother with the whole Namek saga?
Freeza was VASTLY stronger than anybody else on Namek, Polunga should have been unable to change his fundamental nature and make him immortal... the Nameks should just have said so to Freeza.
Hell, Same thing in the DBS:Broly movie!

But the point was never discussed.


Everything points to "Dragons cannot effect those stronger than themselves unless they agree to it"
Nope, if it was so he would have said so but he said he can't break or revert the bodies of stronger beings than him. Him removing bombs despite #18 never asking is a proof of my point.

Teleporting Goku has nothing to do with changing Goku's body to old self or modifying him or defusing him.

Making someone immortal is still not same as reverting to old self or changing their bodies into old self. It's just giving eternal life but that won't increase or decrease power, the power factor is important. Fusions can only be broken by using excessive power and I don't think Vegetto or Kibito-Kaioshin could be broken like nothing.


Even Piccolo Daimao wanted youth but his power was same as Kami and Shenlong so it made sense.


When Dragon is giving Freeza eternal life or restoring stamina, he's not messing their body or power level. With Vegetto or Kibito-Kaioshin he needs even bigger power to break it since that was the only way shown in DBS to break a fusion. How can Dragon affect such a being and nonsensically break the bodies stronger than him?
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
My MAL profile : https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ripper_30

User avatar
Ripper 30
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:16 am
Location: India
Contact:

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by Ripper 30 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 5:16 pm

TobyS wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:48 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:36 am
C-17 and C-18 most likely didn't WANT to turn back to normal humans.
See how he had no issues removing the bombs they quite obviously didn't want.

Likewise, he couldn't teleport Goku only because Goku REFUSED, not just because he was stronger.

Hell, if being stronger than the dragon was enough to make you immune to it no matter what, why bother with the whole Namek saga?
Freeza was VASTLY stronger than anybody else on Namek, Polunga should have been unable to change his fundamental nature and make him immortal... the Nameks should just have said so to Freeza.
Hell, Same thing in the DBS:Broly movie!

But the point was never discussed.


Everything points to "Dragons cannot effect those stronger than themselves unless they agree to it"
Exactly.

Besides the magic dragon casting dispell on the magic earrings is still more plausible then him reverting super science altered cyborgs.

The cyborgs are toast that can't be turned back to bread. The kaioshins were magic beings magically glued together.

Consent is clearly a variable. Shenron says he can't kill vegeta and nappa because they are stronger than Kami the implication being if they werent he could. Yet dragons can't teleport Goku without permission. But can teleport vegeta to earth, who's indifferent to the idea I guess.

He can also regen gokus chi to full against kid buu even though gokus stronger than him.
If he can remove bombs ,which was something which required Bulma, then yes he shouldn't have any problems with it but he couldn't coz of power gap.

The Kaioshin magic was told to be eternal to the point, Goku, who was suggesting to use DBs for everything in Boo arc, said that he will have to go to school with Gohan as Gokhan and outright told Vegeta that they will remain fused forever and never revert when he would've mentioned DBs otherwise if it was possible.


Teleporting or Restoring Ki is not same as modifying the bodies and changing their fundamental nature of beings or breaking a fusion which is eternal.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
My MAL profile : https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ripper_30

ankokudaishogun
Regular
Posts: 640
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:10 pm

Goku is _NOT_ a trustworthy source of information over magic-related stuff of any kind.

User avatar
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:16 pm

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:33 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:10 pm
Goku is _NOT_ a trustworthy source of information over magic-related stuff of any kind.
True. And neither are the gods as Zeno's mind changes fairly frequently.
My opinions suck. You should probably mute me to spare yourself having to see them.

theherodjl
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1323
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by theherodjl » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:16 pm

The fact of the matter is that Shenron can defuse merged beings and it is not beyond his power to do so no matter how much one might believe it qualifies as being that. At no point have any of the Dragons been stated or implied to be unable to affect the act of fusion itself, regardless of how powerful the fused-being actually is. Its simply one of the many loopholes that Shenron can perform that works around the greater power that a stronger being might have over Shenron...and that's a totally fine answer.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

Mireya
Newbie
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:08 pm

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by Mireya » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:58 am

I think theherodjl has hit the nail in the head. The Cyborgs and what makes them a Cyborg can be considered as one thing... it's within their being and can't be detached. In Kibitoshin's case, what merged them was the Potaras, the earrings, and it counts as something beyond the simple being formed by them. The Potaras are the focal point in that case, which apparently don't hold enough juice to bypass the power of the Dragon Balls.

It isn't so clear though and the reasoning might not seem gospel, but it makes sense if you let it be.

User avatar
Ripper 30
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:16 am
Location: India
Contact:

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:11 am

theherodjl wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:16 pm
The fact of the matter is that Shenron can defuse merged beings and it is not beyond his power to do so no matter how much one might believe it qualifies as being that. At no point have any of the Dragons been stated or implied to be unable to affect the act of fusion itself, regardless of how powerful the fused-being actually is. Its simply one of the many loopholes that Shenron can perform that works around the greater power that a stronger being might have over Shenron...and that's a totally fine answer.
No, he can't revert stronger beings to normal. If it was that simple, Goku who literally used Dragon Ball as answer to everything in Boo arc would have said so but no, old Kaioshin knew about Dragon Balls yet he said it had no weakness and it can't be reverted and Goku who himself said he will have to go to Gohan's school as Merged being and even to Vegeta he said they won't be able to be 2 people ever. The only way to break Vegetto or any fusion is using too much power and I don't think Shenron had more power to break their fusion. He was easily able to remove 18's bomb but denied to revert her to old self due to power, it means he couldn't have done that. Vegetto or Kibito-Kaioshin far surpass him and he can't revert bodies of stronger beings to old self.
Mireya wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:58 am
I think theherodjl has hit the nail in the head. The Cyborgs and what makes them a Cyborg can be considered as one thing... it's within their being and can't be detached. In Kibitoshin's case, what merged them was the Potaras, the earrings, and it counts as something beyond the simple being formed by them. The Potaras are the focal point in that case, which apparently don't hold enough juice to bypass the power of the Dragon Balls.

It isn't so clear though and the reasoning might not seem gospel, but it makes sense if you let it be.
That makes no sense especially when he was easily able to remove her bomb which would require a scientist of Gero's level considering how much trouble Brief had in understanding android 16's anatomy and remove his bomb, it proves that if the power doesn't surpass his he can revert their body to old self. Wait, what? Potara are more powerful than anything Shenron can do. It's not like once Merged they can remove Potara and defuse themselves. It creates a new being forever and according to Old Kaioshin it's eternal and one can never return back. If it was an option, Goku who kept bringing Dragon Ball as solution to all crisis in Boo arc would do so but no, he even told Vegeta that they can't split when it was a golden opportunity to state how DBs will defuse them later especially to someone who hated him. It's impossible for Dragon to break a being like Kibitokai into 2 since it's beyond his power to break them back considering Potara creates a permanent being upon merging.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
My MAL profile : https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ripper_30

Mireya
Newbie
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:08 pm

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by Mireya » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:40 am

Ripper 30 wrote:That makes no sense especially when he was easily able to remove her bomb which would require a scientist of Gero's level considering how much trouble Brief had in understanding android 16's anatomy and remove his bomb, it proves that if the power doesn't surpass his he can revert their body to old self. Wait, what? Potara are more powerful than anything Shenron can do. It's not like once Merged they can remove Potara and defuse themselves. It creates a new being forever and according to Old Kaioshin it's eternal and one can never return back. If it was an option, Goku who kept bringing Dragon Ball as solution to all crisis in Boo arc would do so but no, he even told Vegeta that they can't split when it was a golden opportunity to state how DBs will defuse them later especially to someone who hated him. It's impossible for Dragon to break a being like Kibitokai into 2 since it's beyond his power to break them back considering Potara creates a permanent being upon merging.
Removing their bomb doesn't change the essence of the androids. The bomb is just something extra added to them, while they being robots is something already intrinsic to them.

The Potaras hold power in a sense that it powers up the fusees beyond belief, but that's still different from a simple being like the Saiyans, for instance. It's a powerful artifact, but in a different way from the beings Shenlong has prove ineffective against.

theherodjl
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1323
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by theherodjl » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:52 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:11 am
No, he can't revert stronger beings to normal. If it was that simple, Goku who literally used Dragon Ball as answer to everything in Boo arc would have said so but no, old Kaioshin knew about Dragon Balls yet he said it had no weakness and it can't be reverted and Goku who himself said he will have to go to Gohan's school as Merged being and even to Vegeta he said they won't be able to be 2 people ever. The only way to break Vegetto or any fusion is using too much power and I don't think Shenron had more power to break their fusion. He was easily able to remove 18's bomb but denied to revert her to old self due to power, it means he couldn't have done that. Vegetto or Kibito-Kaioshin far surpass him and he can't revert bodies of stronger beings to old self.
Well, evidently he can because he did. That's an indisputable fact no matter what you "think" on the matter.
Rou Kaioshin is not that trustworthy on the issue when he, supposedly one of the most knowledgeable beings in the universe on the effects of the Potara, didn't know that non-Kaioshin fusees were not subject to the permanent-fusion aspect of the Potara. For such a smart being to be ignorant of the full effects of the very tools that made him the way that he is calls his very word into question. Simply put, Rou Kaioshin is not perfect and is capable of making critical blunders despite holding the most venerable position in the universe.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

User avatar
Ripper 30
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:16 am
Location: India
Contact:

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by Ripper 30 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:44 pm

Mireya wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:40 am
Ripper 30 wrote:That makes no sense especially when he was easily able to remove her bomb which would require a scientist of Gero's level considering how much trouble Brief had in understanding android 16's anatomy and remove his bomb, it proves that if the power doesn't surpass his he can revert their body to old self. Wait, what? Potara are more powerful than anything Shenron can do. It's not like once Merged they can remove Potara and defuse themselves. It creates a new being forever and according to Old Kaioshin it's eternal and one can never return back. If it was an option, Goku who kept bringing Dragon Ball as solution to all crisis in Boo arc would do so but no, he even told Vegeta that they can't split when it was a golden opportunity to state how DBs will defuse them later especially to someone who hated him. It's impossible for Dragon to break a being like Kibitokai into 2 since it's beyond his power to break them back considering Potara creates a permanent being upon merging.
Removing their bomb doesn't change the essence of the androids. The bomb is just something extra added to them, while they being robots is something already intrinsic to them.

The Potaras hold power in a sense that it powers up the fusees beyond belief, but that's still different from a simple being like the Saiyans, for instance. It's a powerful artifact, but in a different way from the beings Shenlong has prove ineffective against.
Again, Potaras are supposed to make a new being forever. If he can't change Androids back to the way they were then he can not change them back to 2 beings. Goku had every knowledge of Dragon Balls, he used the "let's use Dragon Ball to fix it" thing again and again in the arc yet even he knew Shenlong or any Dragon in general can't seperate them that's why he told Vegeta that he can't be seperated ever again despite having DBs, if it was a solution he would definitely not say that and instead say something like how they will use Dragon Balls later. Not even Old Kaioshin ever said They can be seperated by any means despite knowing about Dragon Balls. You act like removing Potaras after merging means undoing fusion when that's not true, do you know why Fusions break? When they produce large power like SSJ3 Gotenks or SSJ Blue Vegetto or SSJ4 Gogeta. Unless Porunga can produce such power, the fusion can't be broken.


theherodjl wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:52 pm
Ripper 30 wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:11 am
No, he can't revert stronger beings to normal. If it was that simple, Goku who literally used Dragon Ball as answer to everything in Boo arc would have said so but no, old Kaioshin knew about Dragon Balls yet he said it had no weakness and it can't be reverted and Goku who himself said he will have to go to Gohan's school as Merged being and even to Vegeta he said they won't be able to be 2 people ever. The only way to break Vegetto or any fusion is using too much power and I don't think Shenron had more power to break their fusion. He was easily able to remove 18's bomb but denied to revert her to old self due to power, it means he couldn't have done that. Vegetto or Kibito-Kaioshin far surpass him and he can't revert bodies of stronger beings to old self.
Well, evidently he can because he did. That's an indisputable fact no matter what you "think" on the matter.
Rou Kaioshin is not that trustworthy on the issue when he, supposedly one of the most knowledgeable beings in the universe on the effects of the Potara, didn't know that non-Kaioshin fusees were not subject to the permanent-fusion aspect of the Potara. For such a smart being to be ignorant of the full effects of the very tools that made him the way that he is calls his very word into question. Simply put, Rou Kaioshin is not perfect and is capable of making critical blunders despite holding the most venerable position in the universe.

Again that's the dumb explanation we got. Old Kaioshin has been using Potara for generations, saw many fuse and even told Goku to fuse as base to not shorten their lifespan by fusing as ssj, it's obvious he is aware of what he's telling. He himself was fused with a Non-Kaioshin yet he was permanent and no, he said the effect is permanent with Kaioshins not one Kaioshin and one mortal.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
My MAL profile : https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ripper_30

Mireya
Newbie
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:08 pm

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by Mireya » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:47 pm

Ripper 30 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:44 pm
Mireya wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:40 am
Ripper 30 wrote:That makes no sense especially when he was easily able to remove her bomb which would require a scientist of Gero's level considering how much trouble Brief had in understanding android 16's anatomy and remove his bomb, it proves that if the power doesn't surpass his he can revert their body to old self. Wait, what? Potara are more powerful than anything Shenron can do. It's not like once Merged they can remove Potara and defuse themselves. It creates a new being forever and according to Old Kaioshin it's eternal and one can never return back. If it was an option, Goku who kept bringing Dragon Ball as solution to all crisis in Boo arc would do so but no, he even told Vegeta that they can't split when it was a golden opportunity to state how DBs will defuse them later especially to someone who hated him. It's impossible for Dragon to break a being like Kibitokai into 2 since it's beyond his power to break them back considering Potara creates a permanent being upon merging.
Removing their bomb doesn't change the essence of the androids. The bomb is just something extra added to them, while they being robots is something already intrinsic to them.

The Potaras hold power in a sense that it powers up the fusees beyond belief, but that's still different from a simple being like the Saiyans, for instance. It's a powerful artifact, but in a different way from the beings Shenlong has prove ineffective against.
Again, Potaras are supposed to make a new being forever. If he can't change Androids back to the way they were then he can not change them back to 2 beings. Goku had every knowledge of Dragon Balls, he used the "let's use Dragon Ball to fix it" thing again and again in the arc yet even he knew Shenlong or any Dragon in general can't seperate them that's why he told Vegeta that he can't be seperated ever again despite having DBs, if it was a solution he would definitely not say that and instead say something like how they will use Dragon Balls later. Not even Old Kaioshin ever said They can be seperated by any means despite knowing about Dragon Balls. You act like removing Potaras after merging means undoing fusion when that's not true, do you know why Fusions break? When they produce large power like SSJ3 Gotenks or SSJ Blue Vegetto or SSJ4 Gogeta. Unless Porunga can produce such power, the fusion can't be broken.


theherodjl wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:52 pm
Ripper 30 wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:11 am
No, he can't revert stronger beings to normal. If it was that simple, Goku who literally used Dragon Ball as answer to everything in Boo arc would have said so but no, old Kaioshin knew about Dragon Balls yet he said it had no weakness and it can't be reverted and Goku who himself said he will have to go to Gohan's school as Merged being and even to Vegeta he said they won't be able to be 2 people ever. The only way to break Vegetto or any fusion is using too much power and I don't think Shenron had more power to break their fusion. He was easily able to remove 18's bomb but denied to revert her to old self due to power, it means he couldn't have done that. Vegetto or Kibito-Kaioshin far surpass him and he can't revert bodies of stronger beings to old self.
Well, evidently he can because he did. That's an indisputable fact no matter what you "think" on the matter.
Rou Kaioshin is not that trustworthy on the issue when he, supposedly one of the most knowledgeable beings in the universe on the effects of the Potara, didn't know that non-Kaioshin fusees were not subject to the permanent-fusion aspect of the Potara. For such a smart being to be ignorant of the full effects of the very tools that made him the way that he is calls his very word into question. Simply put, Rou Kaioshin is not perfect and is capable of making critical blunders despite holding the most venerable position in the universe.

Again that's the dumb explanation we got. Old Kaioshin has been using Potara for generations, saw many fuse and even told Goku to fuse as base to not shorten their lifespan by fusing as ssj, it's obvious he is aware of what he's telling. He himself was fused with a Non-Kaioshin yet he was permanent and no, he said the effect is permanent with Kaioshins not one Kaioshin and one mortal.
In one case, the DBs are clashing against the Potaras, the artifact, whereas in the other one they are clashing against the androids. Nuff said.

User avatar
Ripper 30
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:16 am
Location: India
Contact:

Re: Porunga shouldn't have been able to defuse Kibito-Kaioshin into 2

Post by Ripper 30 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:01 pm

Mireya wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:47 pm
Ripper 30 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:44 pm
Mireya wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:40 am

Removing their bomb doesn't change the essence of the androids. The bomb is just something extra added to them, while they being robots is something already intrinsic to them.

The Potaras hold power in a sense that it powers up the fusees beyond belief, but that's still different from a simple being like the Saiyans, for instance. It's a powerful artifact, but in a different way from the beings Shenlong has prove ineffective against.
Again, Potaras are supposed to make a new being forever. If he can't change Androids back to the way they were then he can not change them back to 2 beings. Goku had every knowledge of Dragon Balls, he used the "let's use Dragon Ball to fix it" thing again and again in the arc yet even he knew Shenlong or any Dragon in general can't seperate them that's why he told Vegeta that he can't be seperated ever again despite having DBs, if it was a solution he would definitely not say that and instead say something like how they will use Dragon Balls later. Not even Old Kaioshin ever said They can be seperated by any means despite knowing about Dragon Balls. You act like removing Potaras after merging means undoing fusion when that's not true, do you know why Fusions break? When they produce large power like SSJ3 Gotenks or SSJ Blue Vegetto or SSJ4 Gogeta. Unless Porunga can produce such power, the fusion can't be broken.


theherodjl wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:52 pm


Well, evidently he can because he did. That's an indisputable fact no matter what you "think" on the matter.
Rou Kaioshin is not that trustworthy on the issue when he, supposedly one of the most knowledgeable beings in the universe on the effects of the Potara, didn't know that non-Kaioshin fusees were not subject to the permanent-fusion aspect of the Potara. For such a smart being to be ignorant of the full effects of the very tools that made him the way that he is calls his very word into question. Simply put, Rou Kaioshin is not perfect and is capable of making critical blunders despite holding the most venerable position in the universe.

Again that's the dumb explanation we got. Old Kaioshin has been using Potara for generations, saw many fuse and even told Goku to fuse as base to not shorten their lifespan by fusing as ssj, it's obvious he is aware of what he's telling. He himself was fused with a Non-Kaioshin yet he was permanent and no, he said the effect is permanent with Kaioshins not one Kaioshin and one mortal.
In one case, the DBs are clashing against the Potaras, the artifact, whereas in the other one they are clashing against the androids. Nuff said.
This is wrong, in one case they aren't clashing with Potara but fused being created by Potara which is known for fusing beings permanently while other is him clashing with an android stronger than himself. According to your logic Shenlong is just fusing with mechanical bolts and bomb in android.
The artifact is known to PERMANENTLY fuse people forever creating a single being forever even after death (as seen by Old Kaioshin still being fused while dead). Androids are humans modified, Shenlong had no issue doing what required Brief and Bulma to team up and do which was remove bomb from Android 16 so it proves he can pretty much do it if he wants but the only reason he couldn't modify android 18's body was because he can't revert people stronger than him to their original self before modification of body. With Fusion the Potara was known to have no weakness like defusing.

Chapter: 501 (DBZ 307), P11.6
Context: Goku asks how long Potara-based fusion lasts
Elder Kaioshin: "The Potara don't have such a weakness. It's eternal! You'll never return to normal again!"
Old Kaioshin definitely knows about Dragon Balls but even then he said it's eternal and they will never return to normal again. Even Goku said that they can't split back and he obviously knows and relies on Dragon Balls for majority of the arc as well.


The only way to break fusion is overuse the power which Shenlong or Porunga can't generate.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
My MAL profile : https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ripper_30

Post Reply