Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

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TonyTheTiger
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Re: Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

Post by TonyTheTiger » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:11 am

theherodjl wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:54 pm
Anyone in DB can become good-enough if they're exposed to Goku's infectious naivety for too long. Just look at Freeza, he went from a total psychopath that randomly kills his minions whenever he feels like it to tolerating a minor degree of disrespect from others. The old Freeza never would've allowed someone to remotely badmouth him(unless it was Beerus) or helped a group of do-gooders that had already killed him twice, he'd of rather disappeared into non-existence simply to get the last laugh.
If someone like Freeza can change for the better, even by a minor amount, then anyone can.
I don't know if I'd say Freeza is becoming "good"--more like he's been humbled enough that he'll keep his worst inclinations in check. He always came off to me as too pragmatic to not put his own interests first. Nihilistic thrill seeking feels more up Cell's alley. It seems like self-preservation has forced Freeza into something of a Cold War situation with Goku. He wants his empire first and foremost. What made Freeza so scary was that he was leagues more powerful than anyone else. Now that he has a half dozen or so equals or betters he can come off as less dangerous because of that buffer.

The Saiyans could all have made the switch if given a chance. Nappa would still probably be a destructive buffoon even if he weren't openly evil but the Saiyans as a people are actually kind of tragic. It's clear that they're capable of the wide range of human emotions but their culture devalues any non-violence to the point that they never really had a chance to be anything but thugs. Vegeta was the biggest asshole among them and even he eventually figured this out.

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Re: Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

Post by Peach » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:45 am

TonyTheTiger wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:11 am
theherodjl wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:54 pm
Anyone in DB can become good-enough if they're exposed to Goku's infectious naivety for too long. Just look at Freeza, he went from a total psychopath that randomly kills his minions whenever he feels like it to tolerating a minor degree of disrespect from others. The old Freeza never would've allowed someone to remotely badmouth him(unless it was Beerus) or helped a group of do-gooders that had already killed him twice, he'd of rather disappeared into non-existence simply to get the last laugh.
If someone like Freeza can change for the better, even by a minor amount, then anyone can.
I don't know if I'd say Freeza is becoming "good"--more like he's been humbled enough that he'll keep his worst inclinations in check. He always came off to me as too pragmatic to not put his own interests first. Nihilistic thrill seeking feels more up Cell's alley. It seems like self-preservation has forced Freeza into something of a Cold War situation with Goku. He wants his empire first and foremost. What made Freeza so scary was that he was leagues more powerful than anyone else. Now that he has a half dozen or so equals or betters he can come off as less dangerous because of that buffer.

The Saiyans could all have made the switch if given a chance. Nappa would still probably be a destructive buffoon even if he weren't openly evil but the Saiyans as a people are actually kind of tragic. It's clear that they're capable of the wide range of human emotions but their culture devalues any non-violence to the point that they never really had a chance to be anything but thugs. Vegeta was the biggest asshole among them and even he eventually figured this out.
That's a good analogy. Frieza shifting from World War mode into Cold War mode. I will admit, he has shifted from Hitler himself to a Lenin/Putin figure. Right down to using Broly as a proxy war against Goku.

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Re: Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:45 am

TonyTheTiger wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:11 am
I don't know if I'd say Freeza is becoming "good"--more like he's been humbled enough that he'll keep his worst inclinations in check. He always came off to me as too pragmatic to not put his own interests first. Nihilistic thrill seeking feels more up Cell's alley. It seems like self-preservation has forced Freeza into something of a Cold War situation with Goku. He wants his empire first and foremost. What made Freeza so scary was that he was leagues more powerful than anyone else. Now that he has a half dozen or so equals or betters he can come off as less dangerous because of that buffer.

The Saiyans could all have made the switch if given a chance. Nappa would still probably be a destructive buffoon even if he weren't openly evil but the Saiyans as a people are actually kind of tragic. It's clear that they're capable of the wide range of human emotions but their culture devalues any non-violence to the point that they never really had a chance to be anything but thugs. Vegeta was the biggest asshole among them and even he eventually figured this out.
That's why I said "good-enough". Freeza might still be a conqueror that would kill anyone who might intentionally anger/cross him...but Freeza does hold even a tiny degree of value towards his universe and some of it's inhabitants, enough so that he refused to sell them out to a group of conniving weasels.
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Re: Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:59 am

I feel Tagoma originally could have been turned good if it weren't for Frieza. Plus if he went good his large power could be unlocked through training with the heroes

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Re: Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

Post by Pantalones » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:02 am

Nappa and Raditz could potentially have switched sides. They weren't as ruthless as Vegeta, and he ended up a good guy in the end. Plus, Nappa wanted to wish Raditz back at first and wondered about repopulating the Saiyan race by interbreeding with humans -- Vegeta's the one who goes on about "Saiyan pride" but Nappa seems like he actually cared more about the Saiyan race, culture, history, etc. than his prince ever did. Honestly he's probably smarter than average for a Saiyan (he just gets carried away in battle and loses his cool), and I'm genuinely curious about what a Nappa "domesticated" by some years of peaceful Earth life might end up being like.

Plenty of Freeza's forces could presumably have turned out less evil and destructive, though I imagine many of them still wouldn't exactly be nice or pure-hearted, if not for Freeza conquering their planets and forcing their entire species to serve as soldiers for his empire. Like, Cui or Zarbon might just be a couple of smug jerks dinking around on some backwater planet's shady taverns, occasionally using the threat of their power to rob somebody or something but not wiping planets or anything crazy like that (more "Space Bandit Yamcha" than "evil pseudo-Nazi space pirates.") Heck, if the Ginyu Force hadn't been born with higher-than-normal "mutant" power levels which caught Freeza's attention and ended up going into some less violent line of work rather than being an elite mercenary squad bouncing around killing people for the empire, I can imagine most of them not being all that evil. As far as base personalities go they're more goofy than willfully malevolent (and then there's Ginyu himself who's got this almost grumpy drill-sergeant kind of thing going on, though maybe he was a goofball when he was younger and just had more time to grow out of it in the who-knows-how-many years since he switched away from his original body); imagine if they'd been found early on in their lives and raised to be members of the Galactic Patrol instead of Freeza's army. They'd finally get to be a real Super Sentai team.

Freeza himself though? Nope, never. The best Freeza will ever be is "not actively antagonistic toward our heroes/Earth/the universe." He'll never be good, just look how long they held him in Hell without deciding "okay, this soul's purified enough now, time to reincarnate him."

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Re: Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:49 pm

Piccolo was originally a pure evil half of one being but he basically became good because of the presence of evil guys much stronger than he could ever be (the Saiyans and Frieza) and also growing to care for Gohan, plus discovering his true origins. Was that just it?

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Re: Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

Post by Vegirot82 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:18 am

GhostEmperorX wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:49 pm
Piccolo was originally a pure evil half of one being but he basically became good because of the presence of evil guys much stronger than he could ever be (the Saiyans and Frieza) and also growing to care for Gohan, plus discovering his true origins. Was that just it?
Well not quite, Piccolo junior is the offspring of that evil half, charged with eventually bringing Goku low, he never comes across as megolomaniacal as his forbear. I'd say it's training Gohan, seeing the goodness that shines through despite the times of sheer hell he's put though, that ultimately sets junior on his path to redemption, the saiyans just set him on the path of gaining more strength, in the form of Gohan, in order for there to still be a world to conquer after their defeat.
By the time he discovers his origins his outlook has already changed to the point that he took Nappas attack, saving Gohan and losing his life in the process.

Back on topic though I'm not sure any of the true big bads that's are left are capable of truly turning good, not Freeza, not Cell, not Zamassu.... Who does that leave? Guys like Ginyu or Radditz or Nappa sure, I think they could have sought redemption but the big bads just seem so beyond that. I will say though it would have been interesting to see the flip side of the shadow dragons once the dragon balls had been purified at the end of GT, light dragons or something less silly sounding maybe 😅

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Re: Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:54 pm

Anyone except Cell. I just cannot imagine cell ever turning good
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Re: Who Else Has the Potential to Turn 'Good'?

Post by Akyon » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:50 pm

apex_pretador wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:54 pm
Anyone except Cell. I just cannot imagine cell ever turning good
Weirdly I would have put Cell before Frieza. The guy at least has some of Goku and Piccolo in him.

I still wouldn't want him to and it'd be dreadful if he did.

I do think Raditz and Nappa could have potentially been good. Neither seemed as evil as Vegeta at the time. Nappa as big of a brute as he was still originally wanted to revive Raditz and seemed to care about the Saibamen he planted. Raditz gave Goku a chance to join him rather than outright slaughtering him when he showed what Saiyans would consider weakness.

Frieza's top henchmen for the most part seemed like they could have been redeemed. Ginyu was mostly there with his honourable fighting style, and for whatever reason I feel like Zarbon could have been easily turned good had he not been so terrified of Frieza. Not so sure about Dodoria, but that might just be me being genre savvy and thinking the handsome ones are more likely to be turned good.
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