Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

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Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Psajdak » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:23 am

By current, I mean their fusions done at their current battle level.

Like, there is a talk about Ultra Instinct being superior to fusions, but we were always shown that both Gogeta, and Vegetto are capable of using transformations, and tehniques of their "originals", even if only one of them knows them, such as Shunkaido.

Like their main thing is that no matter how strong Goku and Vegeta get, Gogeta and Vegetto will automatically get even stronger.

Series is all about surpassing one's own limits, so it makes me wonder what would Goku and Vegeta had to do in this case?

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:53 am

Goku kinda gets close to Vegetto/Gogeta (SSGSS) when he uses the completed version of Ultra Instinct in Dragon Ball Heroes, but I never saw anything being said about a way to surpass fusions. They probably will always kept their status as ultimate techniques.

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:00 pm

that's mathematically flat put impossible unless they add some kind of limit to fusions.
Like, we already know fusions can end early if too much energy is expended

The only way for a fusion to be weaker than its components, then, it's for the components being so strong the fusion ends well before being able to even reach the power of the components at full power

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:19 pm

When Goku inevitably gets his next recolor (I'm guessing green), itll be even stronger than Ultra Instinct so probably.

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by BagetaSama » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:44 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:19 pm When Goku inevitably gets his next recolor (I'm guessing green), itll be even stronger than Ultra Instinct so probably.
What makes you so sure that was inevitable?

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:51 pm

BagetaSama wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:44 pm
Dbzfan94 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:19 pm When Goku inevitably gets his next recolor (I'm guessing green), itll be even stronger than Ultra Instinct so probably.
What makes you so sure that was inevitable?
Because the series has gotten out of control with the formula of "next foe is stronger than last" so by that theyll eventually reach someone so much stronger than UI that theyll need another form. That, and sadly the marketing.

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:55 pm

BagetaSama wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:44 pm What makes you so sure that was inevitable?
After four new colors practically at once, you have your doubts about it?
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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by BagetaSama » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:51 pm

Grimlock wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:55 pm
BagetaSama wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:44 pm What makes you so sure that was inevitable?
After four new colors practically at once, you have your doubts about it?
SSG
SSB
UI
That's 3, and there were like 4 years between the 2nd and 3rd

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Peach » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:07 pm

Doubt it. Unless they're fighting on par with the angels or Grand Minister solo.

Gogeta seems like he's in between Beerus and Whis.

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Grimlock » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:50 pm

BagetaSama wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:51 pm SSG
SSB
UI
That's 3, and there were like 4 years between the 2nd and 3rd
You forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.
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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Peach » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:02 am

Grimlock wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:50 pm
BagetaSama wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:51 pm SSG
SSB
UI
That's 3, and there were like 4 years between the 2nd and 3rd
You forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.
That's right, Rosé! Goku still needs to unlock Super Saiyan Rosé

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:34 am

In cannon I believe MUI Goku> both fusions

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Doctor. » Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:28 am

Completed UI Goku is already stronger than both. Provided Gogeta and Vegetto can tap into UI in a pinch, then they would obviously be stronger. I don't think they'll ever surpass the fusions that way, unless Goku and Vegeta's battle powers stop being equal and one gets a massive boost over the other - that would likely cause imbalance during the fusion process and could potentially make fusion weaker than whoever was the strongest of the two. As Goku hypothesized in the Boo arc, a fusion with Dende could have made him weaker; but for that to happen with Vegeta, Goku would have to become ridiculously stronger than him, which will likely never happen.

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by SSJgogeto » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:54 pm

I'm also on the team "UI > Vegetto and Gogeta Blue".
Peach wrote:
Grimlock wrote:
BagetaSama wrote: SSG
SSB
UI
That's 3, and there were like 4 years between the 2nd and 3rd
You forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.
That's right, Rosé! Goku still needs to unlock Super Saiyan Rosé
I don't think he needs to, Rosé and Blue are essentially the same thing.

Also, in the original work we have 5 SS forms in more or less 4 years, so is not like Super is making something new.

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:50 pm

You forgot to mention that all those forms had the same hair color, though. Which does make it a bit more bearable.
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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by SSJgogeto » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:41 am

And lazy. But I don't think that's the point.

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by BagetaSama » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:27 pm

Grimlock wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:50 pm
BagetaSama wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:51 pm SSG
SSB
UI
That's 3, and there were like 4 years between the 2nd and 3rd
You forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.
I don't know why, in this case, you would reasonably ever include the antagonists transformation, especially one deliberately contrasting the protagonists. In either case, we had SSG introduced in 2013, and UI introduced somewhere like 2018, so it's not exactly particularly frequent.

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Peach » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:47 pm

SSJgogeto wrote: Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:54 pm I'm also on the team "UI > Vegetto and Gogeta Blue".
Peach wrote:
Grimlock wrote:

You forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.
That's right, Rosé! Goku still needs to unlock Super Saiyan Rosé
I don't think he needs to, Rosé and Blue are essentially the same thing.

Also, in the original work we have 5 SS forms in more or less 4 years, so is not like Super is making something new.
They're not the same thing. Rosé was stronger than Blue.

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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by Grimlock » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:38 pm

SSJgogeto wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:41 am And lazy. But I don't think that's the point.
If coloring all the Super Saiyan forms golden to keep it consistent and to avoid rainbow hair is "lazy", then this is the kind of "laziness" I'm willing to see. But just for the record: no, it is not lazy at all.
BagetaSama wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:27 pmI don't know why, in this case, you would reasonably ever include the antagonists transformation, especially one deliberately contrasting the protagonists.
Because I'm not talking about a specific thing, I'm saying in general.
BagetaSama wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:27 pmIn either case, we had SSG introduced in 2013, and UI introduced somewhere like 2018, so it's not exactly particularly frequent.
There were more forms and (re)colors in the gap between those two years.
Peach wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:47 pmThey're not the same thing. Rosé was stronger than Blue.
That has nothing to do with anything, though. Super Saiyan Rosé is the counterpart of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. The former is an actual god using his god power on top of the Super Saiyan form, while the latter is a Saiyan doing the same thing. The explanation is in the manga version. And what will determine if a form is stronger than the other is the user's base power level, since there is no official multipler revealed.
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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:53 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:53 am Goku kinda gets close to Vegetto/Gogeta (SSGSS) when he uses the completed version of Ultra Instinct in Dragon Ball Heroes, but I never saw anything being said about a way to surpass fusions. They probably will always kept their status as ultimate techniques.
"Kinda"? MUI Goku toyed with Cunber while Vegetto needed Kaio-ken to match Cunber's full power.
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