Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
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Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
By current, I mean their fusions done at their current battle level.
Like, there is a talk about Ultra Instinct being superior to fusions, but we were always shown that both Gogeta, and Vegetto are capable of using transformations, and tehniques of their "originals", even if only one of them knows them, such as Shunkaido.
Like their main thing is that no matter how strong Goku and Vegeta get, Gogeta and Vegetto will automatically get even stronger.
Series is all about surpassing one's own limits, so it makes me wonder what would Goku and Vegeta had to do in this case?
Like, there is a talk about Ultra Instinct being superior to fusions, but we were always shown that both Gogeta, and Vegetto are capable of using transformations, and tehniques of their "originals", even if only one of them knows them, such as Shunkaido.
Like their main thing is that no matter how strong Goku and Vegeta get, Gogeta and Vegetto will automatically get even stronger.
Series is all about surpassing one's own limits, so it makes me wonder what would Goku and Vegeta had to do in this case?
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
Goku kinda gets close to Vegetto/Gogeta (SSGSS) when he uses the completed version of Ultra Instinct in Dragon Ball Heroes, but I never saw anything being said about a way to surpass fusions. They probably will always kept their status as ultimate techniques.
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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
that's mathematically flat put impossible unless they add some kind of limit to fusions.
Like, we already know fusions can end early if too much energy is expended
The only way for a fusion to be weaker than its components, then, it's for the components being so strong the fusion ends well before being able to even reach the power of the components at full power
Like, we already know fusions can end early if too much energy is expended
The only way for a fusion to be weaker than its components, then, it's for the components being so strong the fusion ends well before being able to even reach the power of the components at full power
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
When Goku inevitably gets his next recolor (I'm guessing green), itll be even stronger than Ultra Instinct so probably.
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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
Because the series has gotten out of control with the formula of "next foe is stronger than last" so by that theyll eventually reach someone so much stronger than UI that theyll need another form. That, and sadly the marketing.
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
After four new colors practically at once, you have your doubts about it?
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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
Doubt it. Unless they're fighting on par with the angels or Grand Minister solo.
Gogeta seems like he's in between Beerus and Whis.
Gogeta seems like he's in between Beerus and Whis.
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
You forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.BagetaSama wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:51 pm SSG
SSB
UI
That's 3, and there were like 4 years between the 2nd and 3rd
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
That's right, Rosé! Goku still needs to unlock Super Saiyan RoséGrimlock wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:50 pmYou forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.BagetaSama wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:51 pm SSG
SSB
UI
That's 3, and there were like 4 years between the 2nd and 3rd
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
In cannon I believe MUI Goku> both fusions
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
Completed UI Goku is already stronger than both. Provided Gogeta and Vegetto can tap into UI in a pinch, then they would obviously be stronger. I don't think they'll ever surpass the fusions that way, unless Goku and Vegeta's battle powers stop being equal and one gets a massive boost over the other - that would likely cause imbalance during the fusion process and could potentially make fusion weaker than whoever was the strongest of the two. As Goku hypothesized in the Boo arc, a fusion with Dende could have made him weaker; but for that to happen with Vegeta, Goku would have to become ridiculously stronger than him, which will likely never happen.
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
I'm also on the team "UI > Vegetto and Gogeta Blue".
Also, in the original work we have 5 SS forms in more or less 4 years, so is not like Super is making something new.
I don't think he needs to, Rosé and Blue are essentially the same thing.Peach wrote:That's right, Rosé! Goku still needs to unlock Super Saiyan RoséGrimlock wrote:You forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.BagetaSama wrote: SSG
SSB
UI
That's 3, and there were like 4 years between the 2nd and 3rd
Also, in the original work we have 5 SS forms in more or less 4 years, so is not like Super is making something new.
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
You forgot to mention that all those forms had the same hair color, though. Which does make it a bit more bearable.
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
And lazy. But I don't think that's the point.
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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
I don't know why, in this case, you would reasonably ever include the antagonists transformation, especially one deliberately contrasting the protagonists. In either case, we had SSG introduced in 2013, and UI introduced somewhere like 2018, so it's not exactly particularly frequent.Grimlock wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:50 pmYou forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.BagetaSama wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:51 pm SSG
SSB
UI
That's 3, and there were like 4 years between the 2nd and 3rd
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
They're not the same thing. Rosé was stronger than Blue.SSJgogeto wrote: ↑Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:54 pm I'm also on the team "UI > Vegetto and Gogeta Blue".
I don't think he needs to, Rosé and Blue are essentially the same thing.Peach wrote:That's right, Rosé! Goku still needs to unlock Super Saiyan RoséGrimlock wrote:
You forgot Super Saiyan Rosé. Three years, to be precise, which doesn't take away the short gap from one to the other.
Also, in the original work we have 5 SS forms in more or less 4 years, so is not like Super is making something new.
Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
If coloring all the Super Saiyan forms golden to keep it consistent and to avoid rainbow hair is "lazy", then this is the kind of "laziness" I'm willing to see. But just for the record: no, it is not lazy at all.
Because I'm not talking about a specific thing, I'm saying in general.BagetaSama wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:27 pmI don't know why, in this case, you would reasonably ever include the antagonists transformation, especially one deliberately contrasting the protagonists.
There were more forms and (re)colors in the gap between those two years.BagetaSama wrote: ↑Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:27 pmIn either case, we had SSG introduced in 2013, and UI introduced somewhere like 2018, so it's not exactly particularly frequent.
That has nothing to do with anything, though. Super Saiyan Rosé is the counterpart of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. The former is an actual god using his god power on top of the Super Saiyan form, while the latter is a Saiyan doing the same thing. The explanation is in the manga version. And what will determine if a form is stronger than the other is the user's base power level, since there is no official multipler revealed.
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Re: Will Goku and Vegeta ever surpass their current Gogeta, and Vegetto?
"Kinda"? MUI Goku toyed with Cunber while Vegetto needed Kaio-ken to match Cunber's full power.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:53 am Goku kinda gets close to Vegetto/Gogeta (SSGSS) when he uses the completed version of Ultra Instinct in Dragon Ball Heroes, but I never saw anything being said about a way to surpass fusions. They probably will always kept their status as ultimate techniques.
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