What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:58 pm

Psajdak wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:49 pm
IMO, that was only reflection of time product was made in.
As years passed by, characters stopped being as one dimensional as they used to be; they just wouldn't work in today's era.
Disagree completely. The modern iteration of Saiyans is pretty much entirely because of the number of fan created Saiyan OCs. Saiyans as antagonists became impossible when every 12 year old fan of the show logged into AOC to write a fic about a long lost Saiyan who made their way to Earth alongside Goku and Vegeta.

And "nuance" doesn't factor in here. Saiyans aren't humans. They're a different species from the humans we see in the series. They become giant apes under the sight of the full moon and are usually born strong enough to effortlessly destroy cities. Their world's gravity is so great it'd fuck up if not maim a regular human. They shouldn't be like humans at all.

Besides, being evil or cruel doesn't make characters one-dimensional. Vegeta, for example, was a wonderfully layered villain right up until his death at the hands of Freeza.
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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:34 pm

I don't think it was ever stated, even back during 1989-1996, that all Saiyans on Planet Vegeta were evil, cruel, battle-hungry maniacs. Such a description only seemed to apply to the Saiyans that were drafted into Freeza's Empire and sent to conquer civilizations. It isn't much of a shocker that weaker, low-class Saiyans could be decent beings since their lack of power would prevent them from servicing the Empire and be discriminated against by the stronger, elite-class Saiyans into doing menial tasks. Taking a walk in the shoes of the oppressed and living a life of mediocrity can change how some might view the world(or universe) and instill a conscience & humility in even terrible people.
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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:55 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:34 pm
I don't think it was ever stated, even back during 1989-1996, that all Saiyans on Planet Vegeta were evil, cruel, battle-hungry maniacs. Such a description only seemed to apply to the Saiyans that were drafted into Freeza's Empire and sent to conquer civilizations. It isn't much of a shocker that weaker, low-class Saiyans could be decent beings since their lack of power would prevent them from servicing the Empire and be discriminated against by the stronger, elite-class Saiyans into doing menial tasks. Taking a walk in the shoes of the oppressed and living a life of mediocrity can change how some might view the world(or universe) and instill a conscience & humility in even terrible people.
No but it makes them more boring and even more of a generic warrior race. If Saiyans are just humans but powerful, what makes them interesting? What makes them stand out or be unique besides being the race that starts with +4 to all combat stats?

Also, nothing about living as an underclass makes you more empathetic as a person. That's a comforting myth but a myth just the same. The white people who burned down Tulsa were lower class and had been through a lot. It still didn't make them nearly empathetic enough to see burning down a black community and murdering everyone in it as wrong or evil.
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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by Psajdak » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:49 pm

Dunno, having an entire race of dicks doesn't seem so interesting to me.

Besides, for what is worth, they were "rebooted" long ago with introduction of Super Saiyan, that both tail, and Ozaru transformation doesn't mean much anymore, and that was their original defining trait, along with (for most of them) spiky black hair.

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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:56 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:55 pm
No but it makes them more boring and even more of a generic warrior race. If Saiyans are just humans but powerful, what makes them interesting? What makes them stand out or be unique besides being the race that starts with +4 to all combat stats?

Also, nothing about living as an underclass makes you more empathetic as a person. That's a comforting myth but a myth just the same. The white people who burned down Tulsa were lower class and had been through a lot. It still didn't make them nearly empathetic enough to see burning down a black community and murdering everyone in it as wrong or evil.
It doesn't make them "boring". It offers room for the Saiyans to grow as a people rather than be stuck in a perpetual state of mindless violence with no incentive to change. If the Saiyans just follow a one-track-mindset of "I gotta fight & kill!" then what makes them different other than being a race of sadistic exterminators? That's generic & boring.
"For the evulz!" =/= unique & compelling characters.

Why exactly did you select one of the worst racial massacres in American history as opposed to something like the Colonies against Great Britain? Seems really cynical and even a little nihilistic to choose that as an example.
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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:07 pm

theherodjl wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:56 pm
It doesn't make them "boring". It offers room for the Saiyans to grow as a people rather than be stuck in a perpetual state of mindless violence with no incentive to change.
It absolutely makes them more boring as I think you not answering my question shows. There's nothing interesting about Saiyans besides their power. They're just humans with better combat stats.
If the Saiyans just follow a one-track-mindset of "I gotta fight & kill!" then what makes them different other than being a race of sadistic exterminators? That's generic & boring.
"For the evulz!" =/= unique & compelling characters.
The way they do it and how they treat violence. For example, Piccolo Daimao was the literal devil. He existed to spread chaos and destruction on Earth. Despite this he felt the pain of each the children he lost and they regarded him as a father. This made him an interesting foil to Kami who was forever distant from humanity and never really all that bothered by their struggles. He only involves himself when the threat might lead to planetary extinction or when the original problem began with himself (as was the case with Piccolo).

Characters can be evil- horribly unapologetically evil- but still introduce interesting dynamics to the stories they're in. A character having "good traits" doesn't do anything to make them more interesting or more 3-dimensional.
Why exactly did you select one of the worst racial massacres in American history as opposed to something like the Colonies against Great Britain? Seems really cynical and even a little nihilistic to choose that as an example.
Because I wanted an example that showed that despite being poor or otherwise disadvantaged people don't become more empathetic. There are loads of other examples I could list too. The American Revolution doesn't really count as it was primarily lead by the elite of colonial American society.
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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by Lionel » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:45 pm

Why would anyone choose to resurrect the Saiyans? They were bloodthirsty murderers before Freeza ever appeared. As mentioned in another topic, I would sooner look at the efficacies and ethics behind resurrecting the Tuffles than I would Saiyans.

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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by Psajdak » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:54 pm

Lionel wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:45 pm
Why would anyone choose to resurrect the Saiyans?
Because they are Saiyans.

Warrior race with infinite potential in arguably the most influential battle shonen franchise ever.

Besides, it's not like there aren't ways to keep them in line; besides 2, it's not like there aren't far worse guys roaming free, like Freeza, and possibly future villains.
Last edited by Psajdak on Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by Hulk10 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:10 pm

And not all of them are villains.
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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by Lionel » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:38 pm

Okay, so "infinite potential", existing precedent of active threats to the universe, and the argument that not all of them are inherently bad are the reasons. Personally, I think the first argument can be metrically linked to the second as infinite potential could entail an ever growing, nigh unstoppable threat for everyone else. Also, while I do agree that not every Saiyan is a bloodlusted sociopath, enough are to make the species a serious liability. We know their society was ruled by such unscrupulous characters. Someone like Gine was a pariah, weren't they?

By the way, I just wanted to add on this thought. If the Saiyans are hailed as wielding infinite potential due to their genetics, wouldn't that suggest that whomever created them should harbour infinite potential as well? Shouldn't we also be discussing the potential of Shinjin then? Do we know what the possibilities are for beings who can literally create anything they want just by thinking of it in their minds? It's limited by the author's imagination, really.

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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by Psajdak » Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:45 pm

Lionel wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:38 pm
Okay, so "infinite potential", existing precedent of active threats to the universe, and the argument that not all of them are inherently bad are the reasons. Personally, I think the first argument can be metrically linked to the second as infinite potential could entail an ever growing, nigh unstoppable threat for everyone else. Also, while I do agree that not every Saiyan is a bloodlusted sociopath, enough are to make the species a serious liability. We know their society was ruled by such unscrupulous characters. Someone like Gine was a pariah, weren't they?

By the way, I just wanted to add on this thought. If the Saiyans are hailed as wielding infinite potential due to their genetics, wouldn't that suggest that whomever created them should harbour infinite potential as well? Shouldn't we also be discussing the potential of Shinjin then? Do we know what the possibilities are for beings who can literally create anything they want just by thinking of it in their minds? It's limited by the author's imagination, really.
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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:02 pm

Psajdak wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:54 pm
Lionel wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:45 pm
Why would anyone choose to resurrect the Saiyans?
Because they are Saiyans.

Warrior race with infinite potential in arguably the most influential battle shonen franchise ever.
That Saiyans are designed for battle and skew towards planetary conquest sounds like a good reason to not bring them back.

That said it would be pretty bitching to see a planetary war where genre savvy aliens throw out the Space Geneva convention and striaght up murder any injured Saiyans they come across. Zenkais are the perfect in world justification for good folks doing evil things like stabbing a kid in the neck lol
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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by chongjasmine » Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:40 am

I will like more saiyans.

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Re: What if all Universe 7 Saiyans were revived, together with planet Vegeta?

Post by Akyon » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:06 am

Not going to lie, the idea of Raditz and Nappa being revived on Earth and utterly confused is going to be very amusing.

Even better if they try to kill Piccolo and the Z fighters only to get one shot KO'd. Nappa confidently going after Yamcha only to get casually slammed into the ground by him. Raditz attempting to elbow Krillin in the back of the head to kill him only to break his arm with the attack. Neither recognising Gohan.

Nappa is going to be very pissed at Vegeta. On top of him practically raising the prince and then being betrayed by him, Nappa was the one who suggested repopulating with Earthlings and Vegeta shot him down saying it'd be the worst thing for their species. Now Vegeta has TWO brats?

Raditz finding out Nappa wanted to revive him but Vegeta talked him out of it. Both wanting revenge on Vegeta only to find out that not only are Goku and Vegeta are totally out their league now, but also even Master Roshi, Chiaoutzu and Yamcha.

Goku accepting them back as long as they don't do anything bad. Vegeta threatening to destroy them if they do anything bad. The both of them trying to adjust to civilised Earth life. Finding out about what happened with Frieza on Namek, Raditz being secretly proud but astounded, finding out about the Super Saiyan forms and how Vegeta's kid time travelled to kill Frieza, how Frieza came back and was killed again and then how they worked alongside Frieza to save the entirity of Universe 7...

...there's a lot of character potential and gags there just in those two coming back, let alone the entire race.
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