Would Current Base Goku & Vegeta Make It Far In GT?

[miguelnuva1]

1. There is no official fusion multiplier.

2. The fusees are getting stronger making the fusion much stronger.

3. Fusion could be exponents for all we know.

The God ritual is a second addition in power to 5he SSG form. If SSG for example was only 2x SS3 the ritual where Goku got the majority of the power blow fusion out the water.

Post God fusion has access to the power of the ritual.

1. Doesn't matter, fusion is shown to be stronger than ssjg and ssjb. We don't need an exact number.

2. Yes, the fusion can transform into the forms the fusees acquire overtime. That doesn't change fusion's initial multiplier.

3. Ok?

Fusion's above ssjb. Why would the ritual's power put ssjg's multiplier over ssjb's and why would fusion be able to access the ritual's power when Goku already absorbed it and increased his power level with it?

I bring up the ritual because you think fusion has a higher multiplier than God and it only does after the power of the ritual has been preformed.

If three people are equal and have ss3, fuse and one does the ritual the SSG will win easily.

[SoulSurj]

I bring up the ritual because you think fusion has a higher multiplier than God and it only does after the power of the ritual has been preformed.

If three people are equal and have ss3, fuse and one does the ritual the SSG will win easily.

That was never stated or shown. Ritual ssjg doesn't have a higher multiplier than ssjb but fusion does and nothing has been stated or shown to contradict that.

[BWri]

In anime - yes.
Manga - no way in hell.

In anime, base Goku could box with a SSB tier fighter who used Time Skip in the 3rd arc. Several arcs later, during the ToP, I think anime base Goku can do anything he damn well pleases because logic and consistency be damned.

[miguelnuva1]

I bring up the ritual because you think fusion has a higher multiplier than God and it only does after the power of the ritual has been preformed.

If three people are equal and have ss3, fuse and one does the ritual the SSG will win easily.

That was never stated or shown. Ritual ssjg doesn't have a higher multiplier than ssjb but fusion does and nothing has been stated or shown to contradict that.

It is stated and shown several times. Goku says Fusion won't beat Beerus and then layer says SSG is a power he couldn't imagine and does think it can beat Beerus.

The initial transformation into SSG with the ritual is much higher than fusion.

Also fusion doesn't have to be a bigger boost than Blue. Fusion is A+B x ??? If Fusion and blue were both x1000 for example Fusion would be stronger if base became its Goku and Vegeta. Blue is Goku or Vegeta.

[SoulSurj]

It is stated and shown several times. Goku says Fusion won't beat Beerus and then layer says SSG is a power he couldn't imagine and does think it can beat Beerus.

The initial transformation into SSG with the ritual is much higher than fusion.

Also fusion doesn't have to be a bigger boost than Blue. Fusion is A+B x ??? If Fusion and blue were both x1000 for example Fusion would be stronger if base became its Goku and Vegeta. Blue is Goku or Vegeta.

He says fusion can't beat Beerus but doesn't say it's weaker than ssjg. Again, ssjg is a power he never imagined getting on his own. Beerus was right in front of him so I don't see how he couldn't have imagined that level of power.

No, ssjg with the ritual might be equal to ssjb's multiplier at best but it's not above fusion.

Fusion isn't A+B x ???, there's no officially stated multiplier. We just know it's a bigger boost than ssjb for Goku and Vegeta. It doesn't have to be but it is and has been. There've just been so many misconceptions about how strong ssjg and ssjb are because people assumed ssjg was stronger than fusion, until it was shown otherwise.

[miguelnuva1]

It is stated and shown several times. Goku says Fusion won't beat Beerus and then layer says SSG is a power he couldn't imagine and does think it can beat Beerus.

The initial transformation into SSG with the ritual is much higher than fusion.

Also fusion doesn't have to be a bigger boost than Blue. Fusion is A+B x ??? If Fusion and blue were both x1000 for example Fusion would be stronger if base became its Goku and Vegeta. Blue is Goku or Vegeta.

He says fusion can't beat Beerus but doesn't say it's weaker than ssjg. Again, ssjg is a power he never imagined getting on his own. Beerus was right in front of him so I don't see how he couldn't have imagined that level of power.

No, ssjg with the ritual might be equal to ssjb's multiplier at best but it's not above fusion.

Fusion isn't A+B x ???, there's no officially stated multiplier. We just know it's a bigger boost than ssjb for Goku and Vegeta. It doesn't have to be but it is and has been. There've just been so many misconceptions about how strong ssjg and ssjb are because people assumed ssjg was stronger than fusion, until it was shown otherwise.

I've been telling you there was no official multiplier the closest thing we have is tens of times and dozens of times stronger.

He already said Fusion is weaker than God. I can't beat Beerus with fusion then later he thinks he can beat a stronger Beerus with the fate of the world on the line.

As I said before if three people are equal and have ss3, two of them fuse and one does the ritual the SSG will win easily againts the fusion.

The Power of the god ritual or acquiring God ki and trainning boosted Goku and Vegeta to make their fusion stronger than their individual blue power ups.

[SoulSurj]

I've been telling you there was no official multiplier the closest thing we have is tens of times and dozens of times stronger.

He already said Fusion is weaker than God. I can't beat Beerus with fusion then later he thinks he can beat a stronger Beerus with the fate of the world on the line.

As I said before if three people are equal and have ss3, two of them fuse and one does the ritual the SSG will win easily againts the fusion.

The Power of the god ritual or acquiring God ki and trainning boosted Goku and Vegeta to make their fusion stronger than their individual blue power ups.

No, Goku said fusion couldn't beat Beerus and it doesn't matter if he thought ssjg could win? Fusion couldn't beat Beerus and neither could ssjg.

You're wrong and have no proof that the ssjg would beat the fusion with ssj 3. How would that even be possible? Ssjg is weaker than base form fusion, alone. Even if you give one character ssjg they'd have to beat a fusion that has a base form above ssj 3 and the fusion would also have the ability to stack ssj, ssj 2, and ssj 3 on top of that base form. The ssjg wouldn't win.

No, god ki didn't do anything related to fusion and training wouldn't change the fusion method's multiplier. Goku and Vegeta got higher power levels in base form and that was it. Fusion stayed the same distance away from Goku that it's always been.

[miguelnuva1]

I've been telling you there was no official multiplier the closest thing we have is tens of times and dozens of times stronger.

He already said Fusion is weaker than God. I can't beat Beerus with fusion then later he thinks he can beat a stronger Beerus with the fate of the world on the line.

As I said before if three people are equal and have ss3, two of them fuse and one does the ritual the SSG will win easily againts the fusion.

The Power of the god ritual or acquiring God ki and trainning boosted Goku and Vegeta to make their fusion stronger than their individual blue power ups.

No, Goku said fusion couldn't beat Beerus and it doesn't matter if he thought ssjg could win? Fusion couldn't beat Beerus and neither could ssjg.

You're wrong and have no proof that the ssjg would beat the fusion with ssj 3. How would that even be possible? Ssjg is weaker than base form fusion, alone. Even if you give one character ssjg they'd have to beat a fusion that has a base form above ssj 3 and the fusion would also have the ability to stack ssj, ssj 2, and ssj 3 on top of that base form. The ssjg wouldn't win.

No, god ki didn't do anything related to fusion and training wouldn't change the fusion method's multiplier. Goku and Vegeta got higher power levels in base form and that was it. Fusion stayed the same distance away from Goku that it's always been.

I do have proof. Goku says Fusion couldn't beat Beerus and thinks SSG could. THAT IS THE END OF THE DEBATE. If Someone says A can't win and B might win, A is weaker than B.

A saiyan equal to BoG Goku fusing with another saiyan of similar level would lose to another saiyan of similar level doing the ritual.

[Koitsukai]

I've been telling you there was no official multiplier the closest thing we have is tens of times and dozens of times stronger.

He already said Fusion is weaker than God. I can't beat Beerus with fusion then later he thinks he can beat a stronger Beerus with the fate of the world on the line.

As I said before if three people are equal and have ss3, two of them fuse and one does the ritual the SSG will win easily againts the fusion.

The Power of the god ritual or acquiring God ki and trainning boosted Goku and Vegeta to make their fusion stronger than their individual blue power ups.

No, Goku said fusion couldn't beat Beerus and it doesn't matter if he thought ssjg could win? Fusion couldn't beat Beerus and neither could ssjg.

You're wrong and have no proof that the ssjg would beat the fusion with ssj 3. How would that even be possible? Ssjg is weaker than base form fusion, alone. Even if you give one character ssjg they'd have to beat a fusion that has a base form above ssj 3 and the fusion would also have the ability to stack ssj, ssj 2, and ssj 3 on top of that base form. The ssjg wouldn't win.

No, god ki didn't do anything related to fusion and training wouldn't change the fusion method's multiplier. Goku and Vegeta got higher power levels in base form and that was it. Fusion stayed the same distance away from Goku that it's always been.

I do have proof. Goku says Fusion couldn't beat Beerus and thinks SSG could. THAT IS THE END OF THE DEBATE. If Someone says A can't win and B might win, A is weaker than B.

A saiyan equal to BoG Goku fusing with another saiyan of similar level would lose to another saiyan of similar level doing the ritual.

Yeah, this is the it. Goku was confident as SSG to the point that he even was holding back and having his fun... if that power was below what Super Vegito would've provided, he would've gone all out from the get go... or you know, backtracked and fuse.

[SoulSurj]

I do have proof. Goku says Fusion couldn't beat Beerus and thinks SSG could. THAT IS THE END OF THE DEBATE. If Someone says A can't win and B might win, A is weaker than B.

A saiyan equal to BoG Goku fusing with another saiyan of similar level would lose to another saiyan of similar level doing the ritual.

We already know ssjg is weaker than fusion because we saw fusion take on opponents stronger than ssjb, which is stronger than ssjg. That's all that needs to be said, not sure why you're acting like there's more to it than that.

[SoulSurj]

Yeah, this is the it. Goku was confident as SSG to the point that he even was holding back and having his fun... if that power was below what Super Vegito would've provided, he would've gone all out from the get go... or you know, backtracked and fuse.

When was the last time Goku went all out from the start of a fight? He didn't know how strong ssjg would make him so he was curious. Not to mention Beerus also wanted to fight the ssjg specifically.

If I remember correctly there were no earrings at the time so he couldn't have fused anyway. Even if there were I don't see how Goku would know that. Vegeta didn't know the dance so that was out of the question as well.

[Koitsukai]

The problem is believing there are no variables and only constants.

SSG is weaker than a fusion between fusees WITH god forms
SSG is stronger than a fusion between fusees WITHOUT god forms.

The variables are the fusees.

Yeah, this is the it. Goku was confident as SSG to the point that he even was holding back and having his fun... if that power was below what Super Vegito would've provided, he would've gone all out from the get go... or you know, backtracked and fuse.

When was the last time Goku went all out from the start of a fight? He didn't know how strong ssjg would make him so he was curious. Not to mention Beerus also wanted to fight the ssjg specifically.

If I remember correctly there were no earrings at the time so he couldn't have fused anyway. Even if there were I don't see how Goku would know that. Vegeta didn't know the dance so that was out of the question as well.

It wasn't at the start of the fight when they went to that cave and Goku said that, actually he was about to run out of juice. Plus, they could always shunkanido to grab a set of earrings or do the fusion dance. Vegeta didn't know it against Broly but that wasn't a problem, right? Beerus was more than happy to wait for a challenge.

[SoulSurj]

The problem is believing there are no variables and only constants.

SSG is weaker than a fusion between fusees WITH god forms
SSG is stronger than a fusion between fusees WITHOUT god forms.

The variables are the fusees.

It wasn't at the start of the fight when they went to that cave and Goku said that, actually he was about to run out of juice. Plus, they could always shunkanido to grab a set of earrings or do the fusion dance. Vegeta didn't know it against Broly but that wasn't a problem, right? Beerus was more than happy to wait for a challenge.

Again, there is zero evidence that ssjg causes fusion methods to get stronger or weaker and the fusion's power level would raise in accordance with the fusees because both ssjg and Vegito's power are based off of the fusees' power levels.

You said Goku would've gone all out from the get go if he wasn't at Vegito's level and I said he wouldn't, cause he's been written to take fights less and less seriously since DB's return.

My mistake I thought all the earrings were destroyed. Nevertheless, they didn't teleport to get the earrings during Broly's fight even though they could've so it doesn't make a difference. They obviously just don't want to use the earrings.

Beerus was more than happy to wait for a challenge from the ssjg. He had no interest in fighting anyone else.

[miguelnuva1]

I do have proof. Goku says Fusion couldn't beat Beerus and thinks SSG could. THAT IS THE END OF THE DEBATE. If Someone says A can't win and B might win, A is weaker than B.

A saiyan equal to BoG Goku fusing with another saiyan of similar level would lose to another saiyan of similar level doing the ritual.

We already know ssjg is weaker than fusion because we saw fusion take on opponents stronger than ssjb, which is stronger than ssjg. That's all that needs to be said, not sure why you're acting like there's more to it than that.

A fusion that used SSB as the bases of its power source.

Fusion uses the highest power of the fusees when it forms.

And it's the ritual itself that boosts higher than fusion.

[SoulSurj]

A fusion that used SSB as the bases of its power source.

Fusion uses the highest power of the fusees when it forms.

And it's the ritual itself that boosts higher than fusion.

No, the highest form they had at the time was MUI. Fusion would've used that as a power source but it doesn't look like Base Gogeta is stronger than MUI. The ritual doesn't have a higher boost than fusion.

[miguelnuva1]

A fusion that used SSB as the bases of its power source.

Fusion uses the highest power of the fusees when it forms.

And it's the ritual itself that boosts higher than fusion.

No, the highest form they had at the time was MUI. Fusion would've used that as a power source but it doesn't look like Base Gogeta is stronger than MUI. The ritual doesn't have a higher boost than fusion.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the matter then.