Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

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Peach
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Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by Peach » Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:57 pm

We all know how insanely strong he became in the time between Cell and the Tournament of Power.

I'll list some feats right here:

If 17 came to help Goku and Tien, could he have defeated Super Buu?

And let's assume he was at the party in Battle of Gods, would Beerus had been satisfied from fighting 17?

Same goes for Resurrection F. If 17 was present for the invasion, would he have been able to take on Frieza?

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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by Lionel » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:07 pm

The Daizenshuu does suggest that #17 was killed during Super Buu's humanity extermination attack. Now if you're of the opinion that he was taken off guard a la Goku being neutralised by Sorbet's laser ring then it wouldn't contradict his growing power that was established in the TOP arc.

I think he could defeat Super Buu in retrospect. For him to placate Beerus would require a certain level of tact that I think he could manage. It's Freeza where I have my doubts as Goku and Vegeta were billed as ascending into a new, unnatural realm that exceeded even the one Goku achieved in the previous arc. I wouldn't put it past #17 to force Freeza into reverting back to his true form, but the golden state? I think the Saiyan duo would be required there.

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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by Peach » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:12 pm

Lionel wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:07 pm
The Daizenshuu does suggest that #17 was killed during Super Buu's humanity extermination attack. Now if you're of the opinion that he was taken off guard a la Goku being neutralised by Sorbet's laser ring then it wouldn't contradict his growing power that was established in the TOP arc.

I think he could defeat Super Buu in retrospect. For him to placate Beerus would require a certain level of tact that I think he could manage. It's Freeza where I have my doubts as Goku and Vegeta were billed as ascending into a new, unnatural realm that exceeded even the one Goku achieved in the previous arc. I wouldn't put it past #17 to force Freeza into reverting back to his true form, but the golden state? I think the Saiyan duo would be required there.
17 doesn't seem like he can sense power levels. I can totally buy the extinction attack catching him off guard.

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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by SSJgogeto » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:59 pm

It's hard to tell how strong 17 was in the Buu saga.

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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:14 pm

Some of those feats aren't his, like the Toppo thing was 90% Freeza, he was about to get ringed out, and hurting Jiren was mainly because of not having ki to be detected or Jiren already being really weakened. The manga has him fight Dyspo off-screen with no clear winner, and we've seen Dyspo being nowhere near as his anime counterpart, but I digress.

We would need to know when 17 started to train, perhaps getting killed by Buu was what made him start training. If that were the case, he became hundreds of times stronger in just a couple of years (from Buu to ToP is like 2 years, I think?). If by year 2 he is strong enough to at least put up a fight with SSB tier characters, then in the first six months he might be closer to SSG than Super Vegito.
So gets badly owned by Beerus, and is unprepared for Golden Freeza, when he might've been around SSG or above. Getting to SSB level around U6 and FT arc.

Or maybe he started training after he got resurrected after the Cell Games and was killed by Boo just out of pure bad luck(SSB got hit by Sorbet), they can't sense ki so he might be more prone to getting hit by it than Tenshinhan who survived it, for example.
In that case it took him like 9 years to go from android saga level to SSB level. He would've been useful against Buu but not a game-changer character, maybe SS3 level that doesn't get tired? Perhaps closer to Super Vegito by the time BoG happened, then closer to SSG when Freeza came to Earth, and surpassing God by U6 tournament and starting to get close to blue by FT arc.

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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:40 pm

Not sure about Frieza, that required a Super Saiyan by prophecy.

But I think the other feats were very much possible.
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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by dragonball0900 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:03 pm

No. He couldn't.

The narrative intention is that Super Buu, Beerus and Frieza were the strongest beings on Earth at the time. There's no proof that 17 was on their level.

17 being God tier in the ToP is just a power boost that came out of nowhere, just like Roshi, Krillin and 18's boosts. (In the case of Roshi, he also "trained in secret" yet he was still a total weakling in RoF compared to his ToP boosted strength.

And didn't Daizenshuu said 17 was killed by Super Buu's attack? It doesn't matter if he's off guard or not, if he was stronger he shouldn't have been killed. But apparently he was. Therefore 17 <<<< Super Buu at the time.

17 <<<< SSG Goku (BoG) too, since Goku was clearly the only one that could fight Beerus on Earth story narrative wise.

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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by TobyS » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:41 pm

I don't know how you got
“as strong as goku”
From
“just about as strong as us”

The collective us refers to the team which has people between Roshi and Goku tier.

The point is he's on their radar at all not a complete nobody. He couldn't subdue Dyspo in the manga.

The anime is dumb as hell with powerscaling so I'm not going to bother with that part.
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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:34 am

Sure, why not? I like the idea of him being too close to Gokuu in power to determine who is stronger.
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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by theherodjl » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:49 am

If you go by the theory that strength gains from training rise in proportion to how powerful the current batch of fighters are, Android 17 would likely get creamed by the latest big-bad of the story. Now if 17 had been getting his DBS-level boosts from the moment of his revival after Cell's defeat, he'd have been the obvious solution to many of the conflicts throughout the arcs leading to the ToP. Unfortunately, I'm willing to bet it is the former as 17 needed several years to get to where he is now and because he technically trains about as much or more than Goku & Vegeta through his job of protecting the park.
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Re: Could Android 17 have beaten Super Buu, Satisfied Beerus in Battle of Gods, or defeated Frieza?

Post by blacksymbiote » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:50 pm

Not a chance. 17's contribution to the spirit bomb wasn't nearly enough to beat Kid Buu. He's just not written to be that strong. It's only because they needed another really powerful fighter that he has this strength in TOP. Look, even the manga pokes fun at how this defies all sense in their storytelling.

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