What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

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fleahop
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What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by fleahop » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:16 pm

I've been trying to find reasoning to this, and I am starting to understand "strength" in Dragon Ball more and more, but for the life of me I can't figure out what makes a SSJ so powerful. Now don't get me wrong, I see the results easily enough, they're clearly ridiculously powerful much more so than the base forms of themselves. My problem and question are that I don't quite understand what about becoming a Super Saiyajin makes a Saiyajin that powerful. Does the amount of ki they have "magically" increase because their hair and aura are golden? Does the color have anything to do with it? Is it simply a prolonged anger boost? Maybe it is a mystical form that lets them tap into semi-godly powers like Yamoshi did so long ago? Whatever it is, I'd like to see opinions or sources if there is an answer.

Out of universe explanation is because it's easier to ink in and because it's a clear indicator that a character is now more powerful, but in-universe I'm not sure.

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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by blacksymbiote » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:59 pm

My guess is it's utilizing hidden potential much like elder kai's power up.

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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by nickzambuto » Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:54 pm

It’s explained in some guidebooks that Super Saiyan transformations bring out the latent power hidden inside a saiyan warrior’s body. Every saiyan is really that strong, most of them just don’t achieve it.

In the modern stuff Whis had an interesting way of describing Super Saiyans and basically called it a mutation that transforms their entire body on a cellular level that the saiyans figured out how to trigger.

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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by blacksymbiote » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:12 pm

Oh yeah I forgot about saiyan midichlorians.

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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by fleahop » Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:53 pm

So guidebooks say it's just hidden power and insinuates that the transformation is like the elder kai power-up, but less efficient. So...it's essentially a sustained anger boost like kid Gohan had?

Whis claims it's a physical change that lets them "output" more ki.

I suppose it could be a mix of both as well. This may work the best, as it could explain why Super Saiyajin seemed less impressive as the series went on, meaning that they had less latent potential than before. Additionally, cellular change would explain the (usual) increase in muscle mass, hair color, and eye color.

Also, training in Super Saiyajin form would make more sense as you could be learning to draw out more latent potential while in it, rather than enhancing your base for multiplier. Of course we already know training was done for acclimation and stamina as well.

So S-Cells sound stupid but may actually make in-universe sense in a way. Besides the whole pure of heart and rage thing seemed to never quite be accurate. Maybe a trigger, but not the entire reason.

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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Jun 13, 2020 5:01 pm

fleahop wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:16 pm
I've been trying to find reasoning to this, and I am starting to understand "strength" in Dragon Ball more and more, but for the life of me I can't figure out what makes a SSJ so powerful. Now don't get me wrong, I see the results easily enough, they're clearly ridiculously powerful much more so than the base forms of themselves. My problem and question are that I don't quite understand what about becoming a Super Saiyajin makes a Saiyajin that powerful. Does the amount of ki they have "magically" increase because their hair and aura are golden? Does the color have anything to do with it? Is it simply a prolonged anger boost? Maybe it is a mystical form that lets them tap into semi-godly powers like Yamoshi did so long ago? Whatever it is, I'd like to see opinions or sources if there is an answer.

Out of universe explanation is because it's easier to ink in and because it's a clear indicator that a character is now more powerful, but in-universe I'm not sure.
Real answer is that Toriyama just needed Son Goku and the others to be more powerful for the story, and that's it.
Deeper answer is that it's just a classic case of ki-based transformation as a result of cultivation of one's abilities; read any xianxia story, and you'll find the same thing.

In-universe answer, it's unknown. I mean, Super Saiyan isn't even unique in the series (though it is in the manga) in that we've seen plenty of other non-canon groups activate something just like it (e.g. Bojack's crew, Garlic Jr's people, #13, eventually Freeza himself).
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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by theherodjl » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:10 pm

fleahop wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:16 pm
I've been trying to find reasoning to this, and I am starting to understand "strength" in Dragon Ball more and more, but for the life of me I can't figure out what makes a SSJ so powerful. Now don't get me wrong, I see the results easily enough, they're clearly ridiculously powerful much more so than the base forms of themselves. My problem and question are that I don't quite understand what about becoming a Super Saiyajin makes a Saiyajin that powerful. Does the amount of ki they have "magically" increase because their hair and aura are golden? Does the color have anything to do with it? Is it simply a prolonged anger boost? Maybe it is a mystical form that lets them tap into semi-godly powers like Yamoshi did so long ago? Whatever it is, I'd like to see opinions or sources if there is an answer.

Out of universe explanation is because it's easier to ink in and because it's a clear indicator that a character is now more powerful, but in-universe I'm not sure.
By now, its not so much a case of SSJ's boost being gigantic, its pretty much that any power boost that moves the story forward is gigantic. Even back in the Z era, there are examples like Piccolo merging with a dying Nail taking from being weaker than Nappa to challenging Freeza's second form; a power boost of x300(or even a little higher) than what it was moments earlier.
Ki is quite malleable with any sort of method that increases it and the sky's the limit depending on how effective said-methods are implemented. Broly's Ikari form from the latest movie pushed Goku to using SSJB despite Ikari being the power of Oozaru unlocked in base form.
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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by Yin Yang » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:14 pm

fleahop wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:16 pm
I've been trying to find reasoning to this, and I am starting to understand "strength" in Dragon Ball more and more, but for the life of me I can't figure out what makes a SSJ so powerful. Now don't get me wrong, I see the results easily enough, they're clearly ridiculously powerful much more so than the base forms of themselves. My problem and question are that I don't quite understand what about becoming a Super Saiyajin makes a Saiyajin that powerful. Does the amount of ki they have "magically" increase because their hair and aura are golden? Does the color have anything to do with it? Is it simply a prolonged anger boost? Maybe it is a mystical form that lets them tap into semi-godly powers like Yamoshi did so long ago? Whatever it is, I'd like to see opinions or sources if there is an answer.

Out of universe explanation is because it's easier to ink in and because it's a clear indicator that a character is now more powerful, but in-universe I'm not sure.
According to Merus strong emotions like Rage, Grief and Joy can translate into prodigious power. This seems to indicate that not only Saiyans can get boost from these emotions. As for why, I'm assuming it has to with the amount of focus, mental energy and physical energy you get when feel extreme emotions, like the Super Saiyan's Rage.

There was a theory on another website (I can't remember which), that Toriyama when creating the Super Saiyan, was inspired by a real life state brought about by Vajrayana meditation. Basically these buddhist cultivated their anger until it reaches a climax and emptiness is reached. Supposedly there's a lot of dangers in doing this, you can become someone who can't control their anger if you don't do it right or potentially have a heart attack. The benefit was enlightenment and IIRC the ability to control your anger very well.

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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:28 pm

Yin Yang wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:14 pm
fleahop wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:16 pm
I've been trying to find reasoning to this, and I am starting to understand "strength" in Dragon Ball more and more, but for the life of me I can't figure out what makes a SSJ so powerful. Now don't get me wrong, I see the results easily enough, they're clearly ridiculously powerful much more so than the base forms of themselves. My problem and question are that I don't quite understand what about becoming a Super Saiyajin makes a Saiyajin that powerful. Does the amount of ki they have "magically" increase because their hair and aura are golden? Does the color have anything to do with it? Is it simply a prolonged anger boost? Maybe it is a mystical form that lets them tap into semi-godly powers like Yamoshi did so long ago? Whatever it is, I'd like to see opinions or sources if there is an answer.

Out of universe explanation is because it's easier to ink in and because it's a clear indicator that a character is now more powerful, but in-universe I'm not sure.
According to Merus strong emotions like Rage, Grief and Joy can translate into prodigious power.
I'd like to see someone get a powerup from being super happy.
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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:14 am

According to Toriyama, the Super Saiyans have a large amount of S-Cells, which probably is the reason they have so much strength compared to their regular forms. Those cells must provide a lot of energy.

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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by Yuli Ban » Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:54 pm

Yin Yang wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:14 pm
fleahop wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:16 pm
I've been trying to find reasoning to this, and I am starting to understand "strength" in Dragon Ball more and more, but for the life of me I can't figure out what makes a SSJ so powerful. Now don't get me wrong, I see the results easily enough, they're clearly ridiculously powerful much more so than the base forms of themselves. My problem and question are that I don't quite understand what about becoming a Super Saiyajin makes a Saiyajin that powerful. Does the amount of ki they have "magically" increase because their hair and aura are golden? Does the color have anything to do with it? Is it simply a prolonged anger boost? Maybe it is a mystical form that lets them tap into semi-godly powers like Yamoshi did so long ago? Whatever it is, I'd like to see opinions or sources if there is an answer.

Out of universe explanation is because it's easier to ink in and because it's a clear indicator that a character is now more powerful, but in-universe I'm not sure.
According to Merus strong emotions like Rage, Grief and Joy can translate into prodigious power. This seems to indicate that not only Saiyans can get boost from these emotions. As for why, I'm assuming it has to with the amount of focus, mental energy and physical energy you get when feel extreme emotions, like the Super Saiyan's Rage.

There was a theory on another website (I can't remember which), that Toriyama when creating the Super Saiyan, was inspired by a real life state brought about by Vajrayana meditation. Basically these buddhist cultivated their anger until it reaches a climax and emptiness is reached. Supposedly there's a lot of dangers in doing this, you can become someone who can't control their anger if you don't do it right or potentially have a heart attack. The benefit was enlightenment and IIRC the ability to control your anger very well.
Strongly doubt that Toriyama was directly influenced by this meditative practice. More believing that he was influenced by other works that were influenced by this practice, however.
Also, IIRC, this meditation was all about cultivating that anger and a competing emotion to calm that anger, and using that diametrically opposed state to achieve a state of calmness and emptiness. In other words, you're opening yourself to anger to turn it into something else, something more usable, rather than suppressing it and letting it fester.
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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:51 am

All saiyans's maximum potential is ssj3 but none ever reach this momentum.

Ssj is that first wealth of power a saiyan has. What ever power level a saiyan has their true max is always 400x higher.

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Re: What Makes a Super Saiyajin Strong?

Post by Miracles » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:43 pm

They can compete with and beat the best of the universe.

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