Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Steven Bloodriver
I Live Here
Posts: 3286
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:06 pm

Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:31 pm

Or is Golden Great Ape much stronger than multiplying the multipliers of Great Ape and Super Saiyan together? As in the multiplier of Golden Great Ape being much more than 10 times 50 which is 500?

Also, does anyone know the multiplier of Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue, or Super Saiyan 4?

User avatar
Kaboom
Moderator
Posts: 14184
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:07 pm
Location: Funky Town
Contact:

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by Kaboom » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:07 pm

If anything, it would probably take the full extent of the user's Super Saiyan power into account and multiply that by 10 from Great Ape. So for Goku it would hypothetically be his full Super Saiyan 3 power, meaning 400 x 10 for a whopping 4,000x power boost as a Golden Ape. But then of course Super Saiyan 4 would be even beyond that.
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised
[thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")

We Gotta Power >>>>> Cha-La Head Cha-La. Fight me.
If Super wanted to be "canon," then it should have been good.
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!

theherodjl
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1759
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
Location: The Planes of Lexington

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:31 pm

IIRC, Pan states that Goku's power continues to rise as he remains in the Golden Oozaru state so it might only be 1.25x SSJ3 at the beginning of the transformation. However, the fact that GO Goku had an advantage over Super Baby Vegeta not long after indicates that GO powers up immediately after transforming. Golden Oozaru's true multiplier is probably that of SSJ4 since that seems to be where it stops.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter :think:

Mad Swami
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:01 am

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by Mad Swami » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:48 pm

My multipliers are Purley based on my own interpretation/numbers

GA=10X50/X5000

SSJ4=GAX5/X20,000

SSG=incalcuable but my first thought I guess would be like 100,000

SSB=I would say 10XSSG which in this off the top random number I would say 1,000,000

Perfected SSB=5XSSB=5,000,000X

SSBE=20XSSB=100,000,000

SSBE(Moro)= 300,000,000

Ui/MUI=no clue

These are for the manga and are rough off the top thoughts

User avatar
Yuli Ban
Regular
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:07 am
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by Yuli Ban » Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:04 pm

It's as strong as it needs to be for that moment in time in the story
LITTLE MISS SAVAGE
A story about a Saiyanlike barbarian girl living on Earth (our Earth) and the surreal drama this causes

User avatar
Aim
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:06 am
Contact:

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by Aim » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:47 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:48 pm
My multipliers are Purley based on my own interpretation/numbers

GA=10X50/X5000

SSJ4=GAX5/X20,000

SSG=incalcuable but my first thought I guess would be like 100,000

SSB=I would say 10XSSG which in this off the top random number I would say 1,000,000

Perfected SSB=5XSSB=5,000,000X

SSBE=20XSSB=100,000,000

SSBE(Moro)= 300,000,000

Ui/MUI=no clue

These are for the manga and are rough off the top thoughts
Which SSGSS? Manga or anime?

With your numbers, wouldn't stacking SS on SSG be SSG x50? So 5 Million times?

Perfected SSGSS is a tricky one.

SSGSSE doesn't seem to be much of a boost to be honest, it doesn't seem to gain the boost that is overwhelming such as the difference between SS & SS2.

Mad Swami
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 882
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:01 am

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:17 pm

Aim wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:47 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:48 pm
My multipliers are Purley based on my own interpretation/numbers

GA=10X50/X5000

SSJ4=GAX5/X20,000

SSG=incalcuable but my first thought I guess would be like 100,000

SSB=I would say 10XSSG which in this off the top random number I would say 1,000,000

Perfected SSB=5XSSB=5,000,000X

SSBE=20XSSB=100,000,000

SSBE(Moro)= 300,000,000

Ui/MUI=no clue

These are for the manga and are rough off the top thoughts
Which SSGSS? Manga or anime?

With your numbers, wouldn't stacking SS on SSG be SSG x50? So 5 Million times?

Perfected SSGSS is a tricky one.

SSGSSE doesn't seem to be much of a boost to be honest, it doesn't seem to gain the boost that is overwhelming such as the difference between SS & SS2.
thought I clarified manga my bad. I see your point that's fair

User avatar
miguelnuva1
I Live Here
Posts: 2218
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:18 am

GGA starts at 500x a combination of SS and GA. Eventually it reaches SS3 level making it 4000x as it is 10x the 400x boost.

Pan notes Goku is getting stronger in the form.

Now one of two things happens here.

Either GGA surpasses this 4000x base and I truly equal to SS4 pr

When a saiyan starts the SS4 process they get one final addition of power.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:05 am

There is no official multiplier, but i think it's more than x500 if SSJ3 is x400.
When Goku reached SSJ3 he was unable to do anything to Baby, yet as Golden Oozaru he was trashing him and made him run from him. If it was just 1.25 multiplier from SSJ3 i don't think it would make such a difference.

Goku SSJ4 vs GO Baby is questionable, as Baby probably got a higher multiplier since all his previous forms were mutated SSJ variants, more Baby's own evolutions than Vegeta's. So let's say GO was x500, Goku would become 1.25 times stronger, but Baby would become 10 times stronger, or at least Vegeta's part of his power would.

But seeing this, we can be sure SSJ4 is stronger than GO (which proves a theory of SSJ4 being just a tamed GO to be wrong) as Goku SSJ4 and GO Baby were about equal despite Baby being much stronger than Goku before AND probably getting even higher boost after turning GO than Goku did.

Small calculations:
-Baby SSJ was stronger than Goku SSJ3 making him let's say 10 times stronger (SSJ3 is SSJx8 but it was still below Baby)
-Let's ignore Baby's further forms which inreased his power even more
-Goku had to become at least 10 times stronger from SSJ3 to be able to fight Baby, let's downplay it to 10 times to make it simple and say they were now equal. That would make GO a x4000 multiplier from base.
-Baby got the same multiplier, but since he was SSJ he would become 80 times stronger as GO (4000/50)
-Goku SSJ4 would have to become 8 times stronger to be equal to Baby GO now, making SSJ4 x32,000 multiplier (4000x8)

If we include all the power ups from Baby before turning GO, as well as Goku GO being in fact stronger than Super Baby 2, i'd assume SSJ4 could be around x40,000 multiplier.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

ankokudaishogun
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 851
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:07 pm

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:06 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:05 am
If it was just 1.25 multiplier from SSJ3 i don't think it would make such a difference.
being 25% stronger than your opponent was always WALL more than enough to dominate him in Dragon Ball.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:41 pm

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:06 pm
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:05 am
If it was just 1.25 multiplier from SSJ3 i don't think it would make such a difference.
being 25% stronger than your opponent was always WALL more than enough to dominate him in Dragon Ball.
Except that Goku wouldn't be 25% stronger than Baby as his SSJ3 was far from being equal to him. That's why i said it has to be more. Becoming 25% stronger couldn't turn Goku into a killing machine from being a punching bag. Even before Baby transformed twice, SSJ3 was said to be no match for him.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

User avatar
miguelnuva1
I Live Here
Posts: 2218
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:24 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:41 pm
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:06 pm
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:05 am
If it was just 1.25 multiplier from SSJ3 i don't think it would make such a difference.
being 25% stronger than your opponent was always WALL more than enough to dominate him in Dragon Ball.
Except that Goku wouldn't be 25% stronger than Baby as his SSJ3 was far from being equal to him. That's why i said it has to be more. Becoming 25% stronger couldn't turn Goku into a killing machine from being a punching bag. Even before Baby transformed twice, SSJ3 was said to be no match for him.
Golden Great Ape's power keeps rising. Most have it starting at 10x SS and ending up 10x SS3.

SSJgogeto
Regular
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:11 pm

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by SSJgogeto » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:57 pm

By logic, it should be. I don't remember lightning around Goku in this form, so I don't think he used SS2 or 3.

However, I remember something odd: when Goku and Rildo fought and Goku transformed in SS, Rildo said something like this in my dub: "I see. So you weren't using even half of your power before".

This always bugged me. Goku wasn't using even a tenth of his power, so why Rildo said "half"? Then this theory comes to my mind: maybe GT don't use the "Super Saiyan = 50 times stronger than base power" thing. I mean, there's any evidence about GT using it? In the anime or some GT guide?

So in the end I think the best answer is this:
Yuli Ban wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:04 pm
It's as strong as it needs to be for that moment in time in the story

User avatar
miguelnuva1
I Live Here
Posts: 2218
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:00 pm

SSJgogeto wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:57 pm
By logic, it should be. I don't remember lightning around Goku in this form, so I don't think he used SS2 or 3.

However, I remember something odd: when Goku and Rildo fought and Goku transformed in SS, Rildo said something like this in my dub: "I see. So you weren't using even half of your power before".

This always bugged me. Goku wasn't using even a tenth of his power, so why Rildo said "half"? Then this theory comes to my mind: maybe GT don't use the "Super Saiyan = 50 times stronger than base power" thing. I mean, there's any evidence about GT using it? In the anime or some GT guide?

So in the end I think the best answer is this:
Yuli Ban wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:04 pm
It's as strong as it needs to be for that moment in time in the story
In GT a lot of people believe SSj is about 2.5 to 3x base.

User avatar
sunsetshimmer
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:34 pm
Location: Poland/Equestria

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:55 pm

SSJgogeto wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:57 pm
By logic, it should be. I don't remember lightning around Goku in this form, so I don't think he used SS2 or 3.

However, I remember something odd: when Goku and Rildo fought and Goku transformed in SS, Rildo said something like this in my dub: "I see. So you weren't using even half of your power before".

This always bugged me. Goku wasn't using even a tenth of his power, so why Rildo said "half"? Then this theory comes to my mind: maybe GT don't use the "Super Saiyan = 50 times stronger than base power" thing. I mean, there's any evidence about GT using it? In the anime or some GT guide?

So in the end I think the best answer is this:
Yuli Ban wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:04 pm
It's as strong as it needs to be for that moment in time in the story
If it's dub it doesn't matter, especially english dub, especially in GT, but he actually says the same thing in original version.
Still, not even using half of power doesn't have to mean SSJ is only about 2-3 times stronger. We don't know if Rildo was even able to read power level by himself. Even if he did, then we have to remember that technology on his planet was unable to measure Goku's power saying it's impossible to measure as it's too high. Rildo might have had the same limits. He could've simply guessed that Goku is way stronger than that after their initial fight and after he effortlesly killed entire Sigma Force by powering up and Rildo watched their fight before and could've thought this was his real power.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta

User avatar
miguelnuva1
I Live Here
Posts: 2218
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:41 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:55 pm
SSJgogeto wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:57 pm
By logic, it should be. I don't remember lightning around Goku in this form, so I don't think he used SS2 or 3.

However, I remember something odd: when Goku and Rildo fought and Goku transformed in SS, Rildo said something like this in my dub: "I see. So you weren't using even half of your power before".

This always bugged me. Goku wasn't using even a tenth of his power, so why Rildo said "half"? Then this theory comes to my mind: maybe GT don't use the "Super Saiyan = 50 times stronger than base power" thing. I mean, there's any evidence about GT using it? In the anime or some GT guide?

So in the end I think the best answer is this:
Yuli Ban wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:04 pm
It's as strong as it needs to be for that moment in time in the story
If it's dub it doesn't matter, especially english dub, especially in GT, but he actually says the same thing in original version.
Still, not even using half of power doesn't have to mean SSJ is only about 2-3 times stronger. We don't know if Rildo was even able to read power level by himself. Even if he did, then we have to remember that technology on his planet was unable to measure Goku's power saying it's impossible to measure as it's too high. Rildo might have had the same limits. He could've simply guessed that Goku is way stronger than that after their initial fight and after he effortlesly killed entire Sigma Force by powering up and Rildo watched their fight before and could've thought this was his real power.
Toei wouldn't have put that line in if they didn't feel SS was 2-3x stronger in GT. Remember they also deemed SS2 to little of an increase to be bothered with.

SSJgogeto
Regular
Posts: 661
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:11 pm

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by SSJgogeto » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:47 pm

Also, Goku didn't correct or deny Rildo's claim.

User avatar
Limitless123
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:02 am

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by Limitless123 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:57 pm

It's 10x the highest power a Saiyan can achieve as a Super Saiyan. As per the name, Super Saiyan 3 is a Super Saiyan. I'm aware multipliers aren't exactly consistent, but I have yet to see how 10 could = 1.25. So yeah, 10x SSJ3 is the more logical option.

I mean, SSJ1 Baby-Vegeta barely had any trouble with SSJ3 Goku even before the stamina problems kicked in. When Goku went Golden Oozaru, Baby-Vegeta got overwhelmed by that power despite being in his own SSJ3 stage already.
Power Levels:
Main Series + GT
Movies

User avatar
miguelnuva1
I Live Here
Posts: 2218
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:08 am

Limitless123 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:57 pm
It's 10x the highest power a Saiyan can achieve as a Super Saiyan. As per the name, Super Saiyan 3 is a Super Saiyan. I'm aware multipliers aren't exactly consistent, but I have yet to see how 10 could = 1.25. So yeah, 10x SSJ3 is the more logical option.

I mean, SSJ1 Baby-Vegeta barely had any trouble with SSJ3 Goku even before the stamina problems kicked in. When Goku went Golden Oozaru, Baby-Vegeta got overwhelmed by that power despite being in his own SSJ3 stage already.
Pan says Goku's power increasing. The majority thinks it starts 10x SS and ends 10x SS3.

User avatar
Hugo Boss
I Live Here
Posts: 3722
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:04 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Is a Golden Great Ape 1.25 times stronger than a Super Saiyan 3?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:54 pm

This is purely my opinion, but I think it kinda makes sense that Golden Oozaru is a 50-fold increase over Super Saiyan. And SS4 makes a better use of that raw power, making it more focused. It’s not necessarily a direct power-up from Golden Oozaru, it just makes the form’s power controllable.

In Baby Vegeta’s case, since he is not a pure Saiyan, I think his Golden Oozaru form doesn’t power-up in the same proportion as Goku’s. It’s as if Vegeta is using that form, but with not same battle power as Goku, then he adds whatever power Baby acquired.

Post Reply