How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

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How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by theherodjl » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:42 pm

After learning that there was a transformation/state that buffs power but loses speed in the Cell arc, why didn't Goku and the others head in the opposite direction and learn to make the best of speed? Dyspo has demonstrated that speed alone can give an advantage against opponents with greater raw power so...what gives? Did it just not occur to anyone that speed can be powerful in it's own right?
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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by Lionel » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:05 am

I would assume some drawback would exist for this strategy also. Speed may allow for a fighter to attack and avoid more swiftly, but you're probably having to exert more stamina in order to maintain the momentum or something. I imagine it tearing the body apart as well since the ki isn't there to augment and protect the body against the friction and force being exerted.

Dyspo is an anomaly but he did seem capable of maintaining it. I don't know. My first impression is to liken his speed capacity to Guldo's psychic powers.

Someone like Trunks or Vegeta learning IT at the time of the Cell Games to supplement manoeuvrability may have gone a long way towards providing usability to the grade 3 form. Imagine them combining teleportation with griplocks and a full contact methodology to fighting while in the state. I could see them defeating their respective Cell Jrs outright.

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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by theherodjl » Mon Aug 10, 2020 6:10 pm

That's never been an apparent issue however. Goku using the Kaio-ken has forced his body to become significantly faster & stronger, straining himself in the process but that is a result of forcing his overall Ki & senses to rise as opposed to simply one aspect such as speed. If the Kaio-ken were dialed back to merely improving speed, Goku ought to handle it just fine. For all intents & purposes, that is what Dyspo's "super maximum light speed mode" seems to be.
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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by Lionel » Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:45 pm

Well the pertinent details of the Kaioken describe it as amplifying all of the ki inside of a person's body. It's dangerous but the ability seems to maintain a balance of increase for all stats. Grade 3's description from the Daizenshuu states that the muscles are being inflated in order to heighten strength. I think in an opposite scenario, the muscles would have to be stretched and contracted with a degree of severity and rapidity that makes them liable to tear while deadening the legs from overexertion and causing fatigue.

Maybe Dyspo has natural aptitude for it? Rabbits in real life actually have impressive back leg strength and feet thanks to the manner in which they move. They can hop anywhere from 40 to 72 kmh. Humans have a top speed of roughly 45 kmh, I think. If that means anything then I could see Dyspo inspirationally having greater speed compared to normal humanoids.

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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:57 pm

Lionel wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:45 pm
Well the pertinent details of the Kaioken describe it as amplifying all of the ki inside of a person's body. It's dangerous but the ability seems to maintain a balance of increase for all stats. Grade 3's description from the Daizenshuu states that the muscles are being inflated in order to heighten strength. I think in an opposite scenario, the muscles would have to be stretched and contracted with a degree of severity and rapidity that makes them liable to tear while deadening the legs from overexertion and causing fatigue.

Maybe Dyspo has natural aptitude for it? Rabbits in real life actually have impressive back leg strength and feet thanks to the manner in which they move. They can hop anywhere from 40 to 72 kmh. Humans have a top speed of roughly 45 kmh, I think. If that means anything then I could see Dyspo inspirationally having greater speed compared to normal humanoids.
In DB terms, Dyspo may be uniquely suited to super speed via how his body works when empowered with Ki. It could also just be a power he honed on his own.

Either way, it seems like only a few states can achieve proper speed boosts. Ultra Instinct is another one. Although it does boost one's strength, the reflexes, reaction speed, and movement speed that Ultra Instinct affords are far superior.

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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:32 pm

If speed was maximized, it would have stopped time and ZA WARUDO!

And how many time-stoppers should be around?
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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:26 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:32 pm
If speed was maximized, it would have stopped time and ZA WARUDO!

And how many time-stoppers should be around?
2, if you make the second one different enough by having it be a time skip instead, thus not just a rehash of the first guy.

Anyway, wasn't the reasoning for why the USSJ form was so slow that the bulky muscles made it harder to move due to air resistance? So doing the opposite of that would involve becoming super thin? Like this:

Image

^Secretly super fast :lol:
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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by DBZ Macky » Wed Aug 19, 2020 2:26 am

Power alone is useless if you can't hit your opponent.
Speed alone is useless if you can't damage your opponent.
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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by blacksymbiote » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:18 am

Speed becomes useless when your opponent figures out your style. Frieza made short work of that Yardrat warrior in TOP.

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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:53 am

blacksymbiote wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:18 am
Speed becomes useless when your opponent figures out your style. Frieza made short work of that Yardrat warrior in TOP.
That's because his trick was teleportation, not pure speed.
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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by blacksymbiote » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:10 am

Same logic applies to time skip which that and teleportation would be quicker than moving fast.

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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:33 pm

blacksymbiote wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:10 am
Same logic applies to time skip which that and teleportation would be quicker than moving fast.
In terms of reaching a destination, but not in terms of outmaneuvering an opponent.

In Dyspo's ultimate speed form, no one could touch him, and they had to create that cage around him to have a chance to beat him.
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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by blacksymbiote » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:00 am

Except the point of the cage was to limit his distance moving. Goku, Gohan, Frieza, and Hit could all match blows with Dyspo, but because he could run faster, he was hard to pin down.

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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by ChronoTwigger » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:27 am

Well, more than speed and power they could have somehow refined the use of small amounts of Ki, so "technique". Krav maga or Aikido disciples doesn't strictly need to be stronger or faster their opponents. In fact most of martial arts are all about find a way to overcome opponents speed (by passive guard stances) and strenght (by hitting sensible spots or use physics).
But such kind of indepth was never a Toriyama thing.
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Re: How Come The Z Senshi Has Never Attempted To Maximize Speed?

Post by Nodeo-Franvier » Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:25 am

Some are obviously more suited to speed than others,for example Goku with power level of 85,000-90,000 was faster than Captain Ginyu with power level of 120,000 in addition to that according to some sources Burter with a power level of mid 40,000 was also faster than Captain Ginyu.

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