When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

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When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Awesome_Gotenks » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:31 pm

Old debate, but still valid to bring up, since Gohan was injured before they fought.
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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:48 pm

When Boo Arc came up, it was implied Gohan was actually stronger, considering how he was compared with SS2 Goku and Majin Vegeta. If Cell was stronger, I believe it would make more sense to compare these guys or Boo himself to him, but so far he was only compared to Dabra, who didn’t cause that much of an impression anyway.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Ash57 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:02 pm

The Dragon Box guidebook explicitly states that Cell powered-up to become even greater than Gohan after recovering from the brink of death and returning to Earth:
Dragon Book - Vol. 05 wrote:Having recovered after blowing himself up, Cell returns to Earth with a power far beyond his Perfect Form, a power equal to, if not even greater than that possessed by Son Gohan. The Z-Warriors are encircled in despair!!
The Japanese anime also contains a handful of statements from different characters leaning towards that direction.
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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:14 pm

Piccolo states that Gohan's power is weaker and Gohan himself admits being at half power. In way worse condition than SP Cell after getting hit by Vegeta, he destroyed Cell. At full power, Gohan makes Cell wash his socks.

Also what Hugo Boss said. Cell was downplayed in the following arc, while Gohan was still considered a milestone.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Lionel » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:21 pm

I think Cell was comparable to Gohan -- he seemed confident and poised to take the young Saiyan head on. Gohan may have actually lost as Cell had a more versatile moveset and more mass which in the case of equal power should play a role.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Limitless123 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:51 pm

I think Cell was much weaker than Gohan. Even after weakening him with a off guard blast, he couldn't overcome his Kamehameha. Gohan's full power instantly obliterated Cell, and the Saiyans held that power in high regard. Cell? Meh, he's comparable to that weakling Dabra.
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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Ash57 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:56 am

The evidence leans towards Cell being stronger far more than it does Gohan.
  • It is stated four, if not five times in the anime that Cell's power surpasses that of Gohan.

    Cell's power-up sequence in the anime shows his ki being strong enough to grab the attention of spectators across the universe, with people on New Namek declaring that the 'tremendous, ominous ki' they're sensing might spell the 'end of the universe'.

    At least one official guidebook states that Cell's power is "likely even greater than Gohan's."

    Cell demonstrated the power to break an on-guard Gohan's arm and reduce his ki to less than half its original yield with a standard, easily-fired ki blast.
On the flip side, the idea that Gohan is stronger is more or less entirely founded on Goku goading Gohan into believing he could win and Cell's power not being mentioned by the characters in the Boo Arc, all of which can be easily explained away and constitutes indirect, vague evidence at best.
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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Seekeroftruth » Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:56 pm

I see someone from Neoseeker forum brought the debate over to kazenshuu forum.

I think this is what happened. Gohan's hidden potential is tied directly to his emotional and mental state (aka rage boost). Gohan regret of indirectly killing goku subconsciously weaken the rage and fury he had and caused him to become weaker which resulted in him losing power and taking damage from an attack that had no business of actually hurting him. Goku then reminds Gohan it is not his fault that he died and breaks that mental slump he had of wanting to give up, and feel sorry for himself. This allowed gohan to access his full strength and defeat SPC.

I think base on how cell's intent of wanting to kill gohan and yet he was not able to immediately overpower a gohan that had 50% of his ki gone in a beam struggle (i mean see how easy it was for SSJ2 gohan to overpower normal Perfect cell kamehameha) leads me to believe that while cell is > 50% gohan he is weaker than him by quite a bit at full power. I think that Cell is anywhere from 65-70% full power Gohan strength.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Xeogran » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:39 pm

I wish a videogame would already tackle this subject, instead of going straight to the already overdone retelling of Kamehameha beam clash the moment SPC appears.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Incarnate » Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:00 pm

Why is this even a topic? Gohan, with only one arm and half his strength, defeated Super Perfect Cell.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Grimlock » Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:27 pm

Yes, but that happened only because Vegeta shot Cell and the latter let his guard down/got distracted. We don't know which Super Saiyan 2 was stronger since they both never actually got to fight, and the Kamehameha struggle was compromised by outside factors.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Incarnate » Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:16 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:27 pm
Yes, but that happened only because Vegeta shot Cell and the latter let his guard down/got distracted.
Yeah, no. If SS2 Gohan was weaker than Super Perfect Cell than he wouldn't have died, simple. Gohan, utilizing all of his power he had left, is the reason Cell died, not Vegeta.
Grimlock wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:27 pm
We don't know which Super Saiyan 2 was stronger since they both never actually got to fight, and the Kamehameha struggle was compromised by outside factors.
Super Perfect Cell: *does an attack meant to kill Vegeta*
SS2 Gohan: *completely tanks it head on, only sustaining minor injuries*
SS2 Gohan: *does a Kamehameha with only one arm (and half of his strength) that overpowers and kills Super Perfect Cell*

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Incarnate » Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:17 pm

Dumb pointless topic is dumb and pointless.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:45 pm

Gohan held off full power SPC with just one arm, bleeding and talking to himself. Cell only got momentarily distracted, and even with both arms and no injuries whatsoever could not hold off one-armed Gohan. He wasn't even on the verge of losing when Vegeta(depleted) attacked him, on the contrary, he was always pinning Gohan down.

Gohan's full power was too much for Super Perfect Cell. Not to mention the following arc downplays one and hypes the other.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Kaboom » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:13 pm

One important thing to remember is that Gohan didn't use only half his power to defeat Cell. When their Kamehameha clash started, Gohan was losing, badly and quickly, and there's even a direct line from Piccolo saying, "Gohan can't win, his ki is too weak." No, ultimately Gohan won by managing to summon all his power back, and then some extra. The guidebooks label that final burst as "Gohan's greatest power" and "the strongest Kamehameha in history."

That said, at their normal, not-injured best, I typically think Gohan and Cell are roughly equals. But I'm not against Cell actually being stronger like the anime and any relative guidebook entries suggest. It doesn't have to be by a significant amount, just enough to reinforce him as a serious threat again and add all that much more dramatic tension to the arc's finale. Tension that would be essentially meaningless if he was somehow still significantly weaker than Gohan even after all his power-ups and his near-death recovery boost.
Incarnate wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:17 pm
Dumb pointless topic is dumb and pointless.
Well, nobody's forcing you to participate, or even read it.
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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Incarnate » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:43 pm

Kaboom wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:13 pm
there's even a direct line from Piccolo saying, "Gohan can't win, his ki is too weak."
I wonder why he would say that... could it be... because... Gohan lost half his chi tanking an attack meant to kill Vegeta and losing an arm?

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Kaboom wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:13 pm
No, ultimately Gohan won by managing to summon all his power back, and then some extra.
Nothing at all suggests this. It's stated Gohan (who lost half of his chi) was holding back as to not destroy the Earth but then decided to release it all after Goku tells him to; nothing about him somehow regaining all his lost chi and gaining powers beyond his max. All he did was release all the strength he had left, which was still enough to defeat Cell.

Image

And even before Gohan lets out all of his remaining power, we see his (with half of his chi + holding back) and Super Perfect Cell's beam struggle dead even.

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Kaboom wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:13 pm
Well, nobody's forcing you to participate, or even read it.
I'm participating only to show how pointless a thread like this is, no offense to the OP, but this is like creating a thread asking if the sky is blue or not; the answer is obvious. Everything suggests Gohan was stronger and he outright kills Cell, you need some intense mental gymnastics to argue Cell was stronger.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by dragonball0900 » Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:03 pm

Gohan defeats Cell easily.

He was used as a measure stick by the time of the Buu Saga. Cell was only compared to Dabura.

Based on that, Gohan was always intended to be much stronger than Cell at his max.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Grimlock » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:41 pm

Incarnate wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:16 pm
Gohan, utilizing all of his power he had left, is the reason Cell died, not Vegeta.
Yeah, no. In the anime, we clearly see Cell almost winning the struggle. In the manga, we only have Piccolo's statement that Gohan is being overpowered (which we may infer he would lose the struggle, just like in the anime). Then Vegeta attacks and that's when Goku shouts Gohan to go all out. Vegeta's attack and Cell's distraction are part of the equation.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Incarnate » Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:55 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:41 pm
Incarnate wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:16 pm
Gohan, utilizing all of his power he had left, is the reason Cell died, not Vegeta.
Yeah, no. In the anime
There's your problem, you're equating anime filler to facts.
Grimlock wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:41 pm
In the manga, we only have Piccolo's statement that Gohan is being overpowered
An irrelevant statement considering a couple of facts:
1. Gohan was clearly weakened (fighting at half his chi and only had one arm, which Piccolo notes)
2. Gohan was holding back and taking into consideration the Earth's safety while Cell was not
3. Gohan and Super Perfect Cell's beam struggle is always shown to be dead even
4. Gohan unleashes all the power he has left and wins, killing Cell

I honestly didn't know this topic was about who's stronger Super Perfect Cell or the weakened holding back SS2 Gohan. Here I thought you people were trying to argue who's stronger between Super Perfect Cell and FP SS2 Gohan, which should be obvious.
Grimlock wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:41 pm
Vegeta's attack and Cell's distraction are part of the equation.
Not at all. If Cell was stronger he wouldn't have been overpowered and killed, it's that simple. It just so happened that Gohan let it all out after Vegeta's insignificant attack.

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Re: When all is said and done, who was stronger: Super Perfect Cell or SSJ2 Gohan?

Post by Lionel » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:47 pm

I always found the notion of Gohan losing half of his power due to a limb being crippled odd. Dragon Ball has examples of characters being robbed of usability for their one or more of their appendages yet there didn't seem to be a noted decrease in their strength -- i.e Goku against Piccolo Daimou, the final segment of the Piccolo Jr battle at the 23rd tournament, or Vegeta as he was fighting Fat Buu.

Could it be that Gohan's hesitation and the loss of his confidence prompted the decrease? Mindset and fortitude are described as being aspects of ki according to one Toriyama interview iirc.

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