How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

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How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Psajdak » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:37 am

Before DBZ Movie 14 happened, SS4 Gogeta used to have by many fans that I encountered over the years almost a myth status...

Nowadays, it seems that based on feats people are more impressed with Blue, or Ultra Instinct, but IMO, I just feel like feats aren't really good way to measure DB characters, what with all those ridiculous jumps in power, like for instance canon Broly.

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:56 am

I think what helped Gogeta and fusion in general standout back in the day was how little it was used. Nowadays though, fusion is overused, resulting in it losing its weight. When it comes to feats, I honestly can't be impressed by anything from modern DB, because every character is as strong as the writer demands them to be, rather than it making sense plot wise. How can I be impressed by Blue when someone like #17 can come out of nowhere and be just as strong ? What's the point of having Goku and Vegeta train with an angle and unlock these "god" forms if someone can be just as strong by simply watching over a forest ? With Ssj4 Gogeta though, he was able to toy with someone who was toying with not one, but two Ssj4s. That's impressive, that's how you get people hooked. When someone in the original (including GT) achieved something, it meant something, unlike now where power is handed out like candy.

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:50 pm

Never liked the design. Never liked SSJ4 in general, but this one was the worst IMO.

Also, the pattern of:

> Super powerful villain is too much for Goku and Vegeta individually so they fuse
> Now they're stronger than the villain but they fool around instead of finishing him off
> The fusion wears off or is undone somehow before the villain is defeated, thus accomplishing nothing
> The villain continues to be a threat until eventually defeated by a Spirit Bomb/Sword

Is just getting formulaic at this point. Once was enough.
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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:51 pm

Feats in DB are inconsistent as hell especially in DBS so fans relying on them for who's stronger isnt really fair.

And like Matches Malone said, SSJ4 Gogeta was before fusion became spammed and so it felt more geniune. the design is awesome. SSJ4 is already an awesome design and it looked even better. I know the red hair makes no sense but it just works. He looked, and felt like he was in a legaue of his own and it worked in GT's favor.

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:58 pm

I was annoyed by SSJ4 Gogeta because it proved to be so embarrassingly inconsequential. Gogeta in Movie 12? Baller. Gogeta in Super Broly? Kickass. Hotel? Trivago. But in GT it was just a dumb tease, they actually set him up to do attacks that they didn't even have to animate.

EDIT: Also, given the behavior of Vegetto in the Buu arc and the Zamasu arc, SSJ4 Gogeta acted way more like Vegetto which I find incongruent. I liked that Gogeta was more serious and Vegetto was more cocky, it was a fun dynamic to play around with and didn't need an explanation.
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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by ZeroNeonix » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:10 pm

Haven't watched Dragon Ball GT far enough to see the SS4 transformation. It's not good enough to hold me attention for more than one or two episodes. But as far as the design goes, SS4 Gogeta is one of my favorites. I don't know why two black haired SS4's fusing into one produces a red-haired SS4, but whatever. My opinion hasn't changed over the years. I don't really care how it measures up to Super Saiyan Blue.

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:25 pm

No strong feelings torwards him, he was too much cock teasing with little pay off for me to be give damn about.
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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:44 pm

Eh.

I agree with Lemon that GT made his personality too similar to Vegetto's, except his cockiness is far less justified. With Potara Fusion (in the original story, anyway), Vegetto had all the time in the world to play around, both to make Buu suffer for his crimes and to prolong his gambit to save his boys from within Buu. Gogeta should know that his existence is temporary and only grows more expedient with greater power use, so there was no reason for him to play around as much as he did, firing Confetti-Kamehamehas and so on. He also doesn't have nearly as much reason to be so cruel to Syn Shenron compared to Buu, who committed far worse atrocities, so he just comes off as a dick.

I like the idea that Gogeta is generally the more serious fusion, but even in the Future Trunks arc, Vegetto fought much more seriously against Zamasu after finding out the Potara has a similar limitation, knowing the stakes and strength of his opponent, with only small glimpses of his cockiness showing through. SSJ4 Gogeta has no excuse.

Design-wise, he's not bad. Super Saiyan 4 is cool, it kinda goes without saiyan'. The red hair is an interesting design choice and gave him a cool contrast against Super Saiyan Blue Vegetto when the latter was introduced. However, his Big Bang Kamehameha is an unforgivably lame attack. He basically hits you with a light tanning booth.
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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:52 pm

Vegito actually hasn't been very cocky in modern Dragon Ball. As has been said already, he fought very seriously against Fused Zamasu (that could be seen even in the expressions on his face). This is because in the anime Fused Zamasu was equal in power to Vegito, while in the manga Fused Zamasu was invincible and couldn't be destroyed. Meanwhile in GT Gogeta could have easily obliterated Omega Shenron, but instead chose to fool around like a child. Funny how the personalities of these two fusions seem to have been switched.
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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:00 pm

I like his design, I just don't think he was involved in a good fight. Then again, it has been a while since I saw it.
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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:22 pm

maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't the whole "fooling around" done with the aim of purifying the Minus Energy?
Which just blasting Super Yi Xinglong would have not enough?

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:01 am

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:22 pm
maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't the whole "fooling around" done with the aim of purifying the Minus Energy?
Which just blasting Super Yi Xinglong would have not enough?
Now that you mention it, I think it was. Once the minus energy was gone, he went right for the kill.

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:35 pm

which fits with Vegetto's playing around to be absorbed by Buu so he could free everybody from the inside.

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:07 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:01 am
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:22 pm
maybe I'm misremembering, but wasn't the whole "fooling around" done with the aim of purifying the Minus Energy?
Which just blasting Super Yi Xinglong would have not enough?
Now that you mention it, I think it was. Once the minus energy was gone, he went right for the kill.
I'm not so sure about this. The minus energy came back later and was easily dissipated by the genki dama. Seems like a waste of fusion time when it could've been done afterwards, and not even needing the genki dama. With just a kick he fixed the planet.

Probably it would have been dissipated too after the last dragon was killed, without having to do anything. But that is just my opinion

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:33 pm

Is there any reason why Gogeta couldn't just obliterate Omega Shenron immediately? Am I missing something? Was Omega invincible until the evil energy was nullified? Honest question, I haven't watched GT in so long.
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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:28 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:07 pm
The minus energy came back later and was easily dissipated by the genki dama.
Having to use the Genki dama shows how hard it is to get rid of the energy.
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:33 pm
Is there any reason why Gogeta couldn't just obliterate Omega Shenron immediately? Am I missing something? Was Omega invincible until the evil energy was nullified? Honest question, I haven't watched GT in so long.
Gogeta was pushing him into using his strongest attack so he could turn it into positive energy and reverse the damage he and the other dragons did to the planet.

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:52 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:28 am
Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:07 pm
The minus energy came back later and was easily dissipated by the genki dama.
Having to use the Genki dama shows how hard it is to get rid of the energy.
Still wasn't something only a ss4 fusion could do. It didn't even need the genki dama to explode or be universal.
Sounds like a bad plan and a waste of precious fusion time, no wonder it backed fired. The most pressing matter was Omega and they prioritized the mess he made.

Was it ever stated that killing all the dragons wouldn't do the trick?

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:03 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:52 am
Was it ever stated that killing all the dragons wouldn't do the trick?
I don't think so, but I don't remember anyone saying it would either.

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:31 am

Awesome design! Shouldn't be called SS4 though(and neither should Goku and Vegeta, but that's another matter) considering his red hair. Makes sense to me that he's at a level beyond that, so SS5 at the very least, but of course I would want a different name for it.

A damn shame he didn't get the win, but then the ending wouldn't be the same, so I guess you can't have it all.

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Re: How do you feel about SS4 Gogeta nowadays?

Post by Kataphrut » Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:38 am

He's a waste. His episode could have been skipped and there was no justification for him acting the way he did. It was just a retread of Gotenks but without the justification of being an 8-year old.

I think being the strongest character that had ever existed in the series for so long gave him a better reputation than he deserved. None of his attacks were that cool, to me Vegetto in Buu felt more like he should be considered the pinnacle.

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