Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

EGonzo
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:36 am

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by EGonzo » Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:39 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:57 am
Steven Bloodriver wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:13 am
The entirety of Dragon Ball Super.
I really have to question whether this judgement is being expressed in good faith.

Goku's fight with Hit in the manga version of Dragon Ball Super arguably shows Goku at his most competent and perceptive since the 23rd Budokai. He does his research, figures out a strategy, and almost completely controls that fight.
I'd say the anime is more competent in that one. Hit is a real threat in the anime and Goku manages to keep up with the increasing Time Skip. Plus, a big part of the reason he gives up is to give the gods the middle finger after being called a pawn of their games

UI Peter
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by UI Peter » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:17 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:57 am
When everyone was getting beat up left and right by Super 17, he was enjoying himself in hell by toying with Freeza and Cell. He could've easily ended things as a simple Ssj, but instead he dragged the fight on for no good reason.
I almost forgot about this lol.

Also, Goku acted really stupid in his fight against Super 17. It took him WAY too long to realize that 17 was absorbing his energy smh.

UI Peter
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by UI Peter » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:18 am

Steven Bloodriver wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:13 am
The entirety of Dragon Ball Super.
Until the ToP anime lol, but Goku from RoF to especially the Black arc is easily him at his dumbest.

User avatar
Koitsukai
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1571
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:28 am

UI Peter wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:17 am
Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:57 am
When everyone was getting beat up left and right by Super 17, he was enjoying himself in hell by toying with Freeza and Cell. He could've easily ended things as a simple Ssj, but instead he dragged the fight on for no good reason.
I almost forgot about this lol.

Also, Goku acted really stupid in his fight against Super 17. It took him WAY too long to realize that 17 was absorbing his energy smh.
Oh yes, this one. He had already encountered energy-absorbing androids in Z made by the same guy, he suffered that same technique and should remember it because he was also having a heart attack, it wasn't just another day. Spammed ki as SS, then went in with a huge kamehameha while noticing the android tanks ki blasts unharmed and comes back stronger than ever.
Instead of taking the most obvious route (he absorbs ki just like those other androids built by this very same guy), he thinks 17 "reads" his movements(lol), so let's hit him again with even more ki blasts as a SS4 and not try hand-to-hand combat in this OP form at all. When this doesn't work and finds out 17's secret, he's trying even more energy blasts in the form of KHHx10 like he is just fighting fodder like Yakon who can be overwhelmed and not a fucking fusion that has already absorbed a lot form a SS4.

I'd say it makes him look even more dumb than the whole Mafuba seal thing. Because we've all some time forgotten at home something we really needed, it's a screw up but more of a distraction than pure stupidity (also he had PB under his sleeve so in the back of his mind the Mafuba might not have been the most important thing they had on their side), but to make every wrong turn in a fight while being the most experienced fighter in the universe is just... it's like Einstein not being able to solve a relatively simple equation. Unreal.

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:28 pm

Certainly the Goku Black arc (at least in the anime) adapatation.
Training myself to drop the "Z" when referring to the adult portion of Goku's story from Toriyama's original manga. The story, from the moment Goku met Bulma through Goku flying away with Uub, is all DRAGON BALL.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6132
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:44 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:28 am
UI Peter wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:17 am
Matches Malone wrote:
Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:57 am
When everyone was getting beat up left and right by Super 17, he was enjoying himself in hell by toying with Freeza and Cell. He could've easily ended things as a simple Ssj, but instead he dragged the fight on for no good reason.
I almost forgot about this lol.

Also, Goku acted really stupid in his fight against Super 17. It took him WAY too long to realize that 17 was absorbing his energy smh.
Oh yes, this one. He had already encountered energy-absorbing androids in Z made by the same guy, he suffered that same technique and should remember it because he was also having a heart attack, it wasn't just another day. Spammed ki as SS, then went in with a huge kamehameha while noticing the android tanks ki blasts unharmed and comes back stronger than ever.
Instead of taking the most obvious route (he absorbs ki just like those other androids built by this very same guy), he thinks 17 "reads" his movements(lol), so let's hit him again with even more ki blasts as a SS4 and not try hand-to-hand combat in this OP form at all. When this doesn't work and finds out 17's secret, he's trying even more energy blasts in the form of KHHx10 like he is just fighting fodder like Yakon who can be overwhelmed and not a fucking fusion that has already absorbed a lot form a SS4.

I'd say it makes him look even more dumb than the whole Mafuba seal thing. Because we've all some time forgotten at home something we really needed, it's a screw up but more of a distraction than pure stupidity (also he had PB under his sleeve so in the back of his mind the Mafuba might not have been the most important thing they had on their side), but to make every wrong turn in a fight while being the most experienced fighter in the universe is just... it's like Einstein not being able to solve a relatively simple equation. Unreal.
I wouldn't call Goku in GT the 'most experienced' fighter in the universe. In terms of the total amount of combat experience, Roshi probably has him beat just due to being so much older, as well as others.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
FoolsGil
I Live Here
Posts: 4350
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:55 pm

I'm going to give it to Goku in the Buu Saga, because his ineptitude led to the final showdown on the Kai Planet. If the heroes lost, U7 would have been completely wiped out, not only the mortal realm, but heaven, and Otherworld too: All because Goku wouldn't use SSJ3 to put Majin Vegeta in his place.

UI Peter
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by UI Peter » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:17 am

FoolsGil wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:55 pm
I'm going to give it to Goku in the Buu Saga, because his ineptitude led to the final showdown on the Kai Planet. If the heroes lost, U7 would have been completely wiped out, not only the mortal realm, but heaven, and Otherworld too: All because Goku wouldn't use SSJ3 to put Majin Vegeta in his place.
I wouldn't really call that an example of "ineptitude" because he knew exactly what he was doing throughout the entire Buu arc and the exact consequences. Same with him giving Cell a Senzu Bean (which had zero negative consequences and nothing would have changed if he didnt do that).

User avatar
FoolsGil
I Live Here
Posts: 4350
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by FoolsGil » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:38 am

UI Peter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:17 am
FoolsGil wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:55 pm
I'm going to give it to Goku in the Buu Saga, because his ineptitude led to the final showdown on the Kai Planet. If the heroes lost, U7 would have been completely wiped out, not only the mortal realm, but heaven, and Otherworld too: All because Goku wouldn't use SSJ3 to put Majin Vegeta in his place.
I wouldn't really call that an example of "ineptitude" because he knew exactly what he was doing throughout the entire Buu arc and the exact consequences. Same with him giving Cell a Senzu Bean (which had zero negative consequences and nothing would have changed if he didnt do that).
Either way its definitely Goku using the least amount of brain power.

blacksymbiote
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:40 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by blacksymbiote » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:08 am

Buu saga: Not going SSJ3 against majin Vegeta.

User avatar
TheQuestioner
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:48 am

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by TheQuestioner » Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:58 pm

FoolsGil wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:38 am
UI Peter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:17 am
FoolsGil wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:55 pm
I'm going to give it to Goku in the Buu Saga, because his ineptitude led to the final showdown on the Kai Planet. If the heroes lost, U7 would have been completely wiped out, not only the mortal realm, but heaven, and Otherworld too: All because Goku wouldn't use SSJ3 to put Majin Vegeta in his place.
I wouldn't really call that an example of "ineptitude" because he knew exactly what he was doing throughout the entire Buu arc and the exact consequences. Same with him giving Cell a Senzu Bean (which had zero negative consequences and nothing would have changed if he didnt do that).
Either way its definitely Goku using the least amount of brain power.
SSJ3 would've been a dumb and risky move considering his energy would've been leaked. Even if he suppressed himself in time, which is unlikely a lot as suppression is quite hard and doing it in such a short timeframe would be harder, if he gave out enough energy to one shot or even hold an edge over Vegeta Majin Boo would've been guaranteed to be released. Goku actually intended to end things quickly, which is why he went to SSJ2, but he realized he couldn't because Majin Vegeta also powered up to SSJ2.
Regardless of whoever is right or wrong, be civil to civil people.

User avatar
FoolsGil
I Live Here
Posts: 4350
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:22 pm

TheQuestioner wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:58 pm
FoolsGil wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:38 am
UI Peter wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:17 am


I wouldn't really call that an example of "ineptitude" because he knew exactly what he was doing throughout the entire Buu arc and the exact consequences. Same with him giving Cell a Senzu Bean (which had zero negative consequences and nothing would have changed if he didnt do that).
Either way its definitely Goku using the least amount of brain power.
SSJ3 would've been a dumb and risky move considering his energy would've been leaked. Even if he suppressed himself in time, which is unlikely a lot as suppression is quite hard and doing it in such a short timeframe would be harder, if he gave out enough energy to one shot or even hold an edge over Vegeta Majin Boo would've been guaranteed to be released. Goku actually intended to end things quickly, which is why he went to SSJ2, but he realized he couldn't because Majin Vegeta also powered up to SSJ2.
You actually got any official material that says that going to SSJ3 and one shotting Vegeta would release Buu faster?

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6132
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:41 am

The answer is actually the original Pilaf arc, as Goku was too inexperienced to do anything effective, and only won because of his Oozaru transformation, something he had absolutely no control over.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
Psajdak
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:37 am

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by Psajdak » Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:30 am

blacksymbiote wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:08 am
Buu saga: Not going SSJ3 against majin Vegeta.
SS3 was never intended for Majin Vegeta, but rather for little Trunks who at first underestimated "Goten's dad".

User avatar
TheQuestioner
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:48 am

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by TheQuestioner » Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:10 am

FoolsGil wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:22 pm
TheQuestioner wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:58 pm
FoolsGil wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:38 am


Either way its definitely Goku using the least amount of brain power.
SSJ3 would've been a dumb and risky move considering his energy would've been leaked. Even if he suppressed himself in time, which is unlikely a lot as suppression is quite hard and doing it in such a short timeframe would be harder, if he gave out enough energy to one shot or even hold an edge over Vegeta Majin Boo would've been guaranteed to be released. Goku actually intended to end things quickly, which is why he went to SSJ2, but he realized he couldn't because Majin Vegeta also powered up to SSJ2.
You actually got any official material that says that going to SSJ3 and one shotting Vegeta would release Buu faster?
I don't have a literal statement like that but based off what we know it is true. Literally two Super Saiyan 2s fighting released significant energy. Why wouldn't him emitting and using enough power to one shot Majin Vegeta release Boo much faster? Goku alone can beat Fat Boo arguably in his SSJ3 state, while suppressed he contended with him. He has and releases truckloads of energy. Not to mention the strain SSJ3 has is significant too. It was just the worse option since the emissions from their fight directly sped up the recovery of Boo.
Regardless of whoever is right or wrong, be civil to civil people.

JewyB
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 4:25 pm

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by JewyB » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:56 am

TheQuestioner wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:10 am
FoolsGil wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:22 pm
TheQuestioner wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:58 pm


SSJ3 would've been a dumb and risky move considering his energy would've been leaked. Even if he suppressed himself in time, which is unlikely a lot as suppression is quite hard and doing it in such a short timeframe would be harder, if he gave out enough energy to one shot or even hold an edge over Vegeta Majin Boo would've been guaranteed to be released. Goku actually intended to end things quickly, which is why he went to SSJ2, but he realized he couldn't because Majin Vegeta also powered up to SSJ2.
You actually got any official material that says that going to SSJ3 and one shotting Vegeta would release Buu faster?
I don't have a literal statement like that but based off what we know it is true. Literally two Super Saiyan 2s fighting released significant energy. Why wouldn't him emitting and using enough power to one shot Majin Vegeta release Boo much faster? Goku alone can beat Fat Boo arguably in his SSJ3 state, while suppressed he contended with him. He has and releases truckloads of energy. Not to mention the strain SSJ3 has is significant too. It was just the worse option since the emissions from their fight directly sped up the recovery of Boo.
I'm pretty sure the energy comes from Vegeta fighting, not Goku powering up or knocking out Vegeta if that happened. Wasn't it a plot point that Buu gained more power because Gohan didn't take out Dabura quickly?

Its been a while since i've read the Buu arc but i think that it's the majin fighting that affects the energy, not anyone nearby powering up.

User avatar
TheQuestioner
Newbie
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 4:48 am

Re: Which storyline shows Goku at his least competent?

Post by TheQuestioner » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:32 pm

JewyB wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:56 am
I'm pretty sure the energy comes from Vegeta fighting, not Goku powering up or knocking out Vegeta if that happened. Wasn't it a plot point that Buu gained more power because Gohan didn't take out Dabura quickly?

Its been a while since i've read the Buu arc but i think that it's the majin fighting that affects the energy, not anyone nearby powering up.
I do not remember any plot point like that in the manga. I also do not think it's the main fighting that affects the energy. I went and read it again. From what I can tell the energy doesn't come from a majin fighting, but it comes from a majin hurting someone and vice versa. So that's my fault.
Regardless of whoever is right or wrong, be civil to civil people.

Post Reply